Carter can replace J-Rich

[sunsfan88]

Comparing JRich and VC to evaluate this deal is wrong. The Suns made this deal to get a front line upgrade. You have to analyze the entire deal.

Of course. Everyone knows that.

But many also thinks that Carter is just garbage and that he will not flow well in our system.

 

[devilalum]

Plus it gives us more flexibility after this season.

To sign more wings!

 

[Chaplin]

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22010&split=9&team=Magic

JRich has a -9 +/- rating so far this year.

Vince Carter has...

wait for it...

a +153!!

 

[Folster]

Another thing to consider is that if we stayed put and let JRich expire, it would free up some money. But trading him to Orlando allows us to save even more money because VC is actually paid more (I think it's something like 6mil more).

I'm not sure if that's the case. The Suns took back more salary for this year and next year with this trade not to mention the $4million buyout for Carter that counts against the cap. The big savings comes in 2012-13 without Hedo's contract, and of course it will be much easier to part with players like Pietrus for cap relief than Hedo. So we have more potential to clear cap space if desired.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm not sure if that's the case. The Suns took back more salary for this year and next year with this trade not to mention the $4million buyout for Carter that counts against the cap. The big savings comes in 2012-13 without Hedo's contract, and of course it will be much easier to part with players like Pietrus for cap relief than Hedo. So we have more potential to clear cap space if desired.

Yeah it was corrected a few posts after the one you quoted.

 

[jagu]

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22010&split=9&team=Magic

JRich has a -9 +/- rating so far this year.

Vince Carter has...

wait for it...

a +153!!

WOWZA..any explanation for this Chap!?

 

[Folster]

Yeah it was corrected a few posts after the one you quoted.

Sorry. I'm at work and got bogged down in the middle of my response or I would have been the first to correct you.

 

[Chaplin]

WOWZA..any explanation for this Chap!?

Beats me. I guess it's because Orlando's starters are pretty darn good. So it's more of a reflection of the team than VC himself. Interesting though that he's the best +/- guy on that Orlando team.

 

[sunsfan88]

Whats the Polish Hammer's +/- thing?

BTW can someone clarify me on what it exactly is? It is about how many pts the team scores when the player is on the court or something?

Cause I've heard people say Warrick has a horrible +/- thing because he is awful defensively and gives up too many pts.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Whats the Polish Hammer's +/- thing?

BTW can someone clarify me on what it exactly is? It is about how many pts the team scores when the player is on the court or something?

Cause I've heard people say Warrick has a horrible +/- thing because he is awful defensively and gives up too many pts.

It's just a stat that shows how the team did relative to the opponent (scoring wise) while you're on the court. Most of the time it's a very unreliable stat but occasionally it's incredibly revealing.

Steve

 

[myrondizzo]

i would have done the deal without carter just to dump turks contract so anything we get out of him is a plus.

 

[sunsfan88]

It's just a stat that shows how the team did relative to the opponent (scoring wise) while you're on the court. Most of the time it's a very unreliable stat but occasionally it's incredibly revealing.

Steve

I see, thanks.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I see, thanks.

I just re-read my post and I'm not sure if I explained it well. You probably figured it out anyway but I'll toss in an example just in case. If your team is down by 6 points when you enter the game and they proceed to take a 2 point lead, you'd be +8 at that point. The stat tracks that difference for every second you're on the court.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

It's just a stat that shows how the team did relative to the opponent (scoring wise) while you're on the court. Most of the time it's a very unreliable stat but occasionally it's incredibly revealing.

Steve

No more reliable than per-48 stats...

 

[Chaplin]

Whats the Polish Hammer's +/- thing?

BTW can someone clarify me on what it exactly is? It is about how many pts the team scores when the player is on the court or something?

Cause I've heard people say Warrick has a horrible +/- thing because he is awful defensively and gives up too many pts.

Gortat: +11
Pietrus: +12
Carter: +153

Richardson: -9
Turkoglu: -25
Clark: +5

Side note: Goran Dragic is at -133! He's been playing better recently so hopefully that gets better.

 

[Drop D]

No more reliable than per-48 stats...

Great! So what's the +/- per 48 minutes for Carter/Richardson?


For that matter, how about the per 150 minutes (or so)? The real time/game-time (including commercial breaks and half-time) stat that helps you gauge how your game-time happiness/hope level does while player in question is on the court.

You can find that and more on my website: uselessbbstats.com.

P.S. It really doesn't exist. (At the time of this posting.)

P.P.S. Can't believe no one has snatched that bad boy (domain name) up!

-Dennis

 

[sunsfan88]

I just re-read my post and I'm not sure if I explained it well. You probably figured it out anyway but I'll toss in an example just in case. If your team is down by 6 points when you enter the game and they proceed to take a 2 point lead, you'd be +8 at that point. The stat tracks that difference for every second you're on the court.

Steve

Oh ok. That's what I was mainly wondering. I used to think it was every minute.

 

[sunsfan88]

Gortat: +11
Pietrus: +12
Carter: +153

Richardson: -9
Turkoglu: -25
Clark: +5

Side note: Goran Dragic is at -133! He's been playing better recently so hopefully that gets better.

Yea. I can see how its not that reliable cause J-Rich only has a -9 because he plays so much and we are often losing so it hurts his +/- ratio.

But yea Carter's and Dragic's is ridiculous!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oh ok. That's what I was mainly wondering. I used to think it was every minute.

I don't own a clock but it might do minutes also.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yea. I can see how its not that reliable cause J-Rich only has a -9 because he plays so much and we are often losing so it hurts his +/- ratio.

But yea Carter's and Dragic's is ridiculous!

As I said before, it's really not all that relevant most of the time. There are nine other players on the court at the time that can directly affect your +/- results in a manner much greater than they impact any other individual stat. Details such as how much of your time is spent playing with your team's best players and how much of your time is spent playing against your opponent's best players really have lot to do with the final numbers.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Carter possibly out for 1 month.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32300944/ns/sports-player_news/

Vince Carter is considering having arthroscopic surgery on his troublesome left knee that could put him out for up to a month.

It makes sense. In Orlando where they were competing for an NBA title he didn't want to ruin the continuity of the team's starting lineup, compromise their chances for home court advantage, or (personally) lose his starting job to J.J. Redick. Now he has a chance to get his knee right heading into what will be an audition, since it is possible the Suns buy out his $4 million guarantee rather than paying him the full $18 million he is owed next season. The surgery isn't guaranteed right now, but Jared Dudley should be added in many situations with this news.

 

[Errntknght]

Maybe the Suns training staff can work their magic on his knee. Of course, they have to do the smart thing as far as his health is concerned but time is very precious for the Suns if they are going to make a move this year. Gentry needs to get the rotations nailed down. He got lucky, he's getting a 'do-over' and hopefully he's learned that daily diddling around with the lineups is not the way to go.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Maybe the Suns training staff can work their magic on his knee. Of course, they have to do the smart thing as far as his health is concerned but time is very precious for the Suns if they are going to make a move this year. Gentry needs to get the rotations nailed down. He got lucky, he's getting a 'do-over' and hopefully he's learned that daily diddling around with the lineups is not the way to go.

He had to "diddle" with Turk. That is the problem with tinkering with personnel. Its interesting to watch the Spurs. They just keep things the same.

 

[Covert Rain]

Gortat: +11
Pietrus: +12
Carter: +153

Richardson: -9
Turkoglu: -25
Clark: +5

Side note: Goran Dragic is at -133! He's been playing better recently so hopefully that gets better.

You have to factor in which players these guys are usually on the court with and the system they play in. You can't just look at plus or minus by itself. Orlando has a more methodical playing style then the Suns and I bet the plus/minus gets better there. In contrast, we have a more wide open style that lends itself to turnovers and defensive breakdowns. Though I don't expect that to get really bad for those players it will impact their plus/minus playing here IMO.

 

[Superbone]

Carter might play his ass off here but even if he does, our ceiling was still 4-8 seed.

That's what they said last year.