CBA, lockout and labor negotiations

[Griffin]

I suppose we should have a thread on the imminent lockout and ongoing labor negotiations.

Here's an interesting read form Henry Abbott at ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/30819/11-thoughts-about-the-end-of-the-cba

Some excerpts:

The motivation behind a team-by-team hard cap is not to give owners a sense of how much players will cost. It's to give owners a sense of how much competing will cost. Now that we don't have the high-payroll, low-wins Knicks to kick around anymore, it's fairly clear that spending more on salaries correlates decently with winning (although the Bulls are an exception). The Mavericks spent the most and won. Teams that spent very little (Timberwolves, Clippers, Cavaliers, Kings) generally did poorly. Competitive owners like Mark Cuban -- who has faced steep losses in recent years -- are left in a tough position: win or be profitable? With a hard cap, Cuban's losses would be controlled or eliminated even as he goes all-out to beat the competition. This is a big decision for the owners to make. Cuban can save money right now by standing down in the never-ending arms race of signing all the best players. Is it worth a lockout to save him, and owners like him, from themselves?

 

[Covert Rain]

I personally want a cap more like the NFL's. The NBA's is to soft. Stern is too short sited to see that if the league had more parity than it did today, the NBA might soar to new heights. It helped the NFL.

 

[ozzfloyd]

I personally want a cap more like the NFL's. The NBA's is too soft. Stern is too short sited to see that if the league had more parody then it did today, the NBA might sore to new heights. It helped the NFL.

Stern is for sure too short, and the league has been a parody for about 15 years.

 

[Covert Rain]

Stern is for sure too short, and the league has been a parody for about 15 years.

You beat me to my correction. LOL.

 

[Folster]

I personally want a cap more like the NFL's. The NBA's is to soft. Stern is to short sited to see that if the league had more parity then it did today, the NBA might sore to new heights. It helped the NFL.

*too *shortsighted

 

[Cheesebeef]

you know what... with the suns being a disaster and looking like they're going the way of the clippers... and i never thought i'd say this... but I might just be one of those fans who has takes a long hiatus from the NBA whenever they do come back.

i don't like a lot of the players anymore, the owners just seem to be jack-asses, david stern is a piece of crap and our owner makes me want to vomit.

maybe i'll be wrong and i'll probably come back when they do, but i've already drifted from caring about the suns the way i used to and if the league spits in my face the way i feel like my team has, i wonder if i'll drift altogether. only time will tell, but this lockout could just be disasterous for the league.

 

[Mainstreet]

you know what... with the suns being a disaster and looking like they're going the way of the clippers... and i never thought i'd say this... but I might just be one of those fans who has takes a long hiatus from the NBA whenever they do come back.

i don't like a lot of the players anymore, the owners just seem to be jack-asses, david stern is a piece of crap and our owner makes me want to vomit.

maybe i'll be wrong and i'll probably come back when they do, but i've already drifted from caring about the suns the way i used to and if the league spits in my face the way i feel like my team has, i wonder if i'll drift altogether. only time will tell, but this lockout could just be disasterous for the league.

Do you feel the same about the NFL?

Personally I'm upset with the whole NBA/ NFL fiasco.

 

[elindholm]

*too *shortsighted

ROFL, that's the one spelling error you chose to correct? What made it stand out above the others for special treatment?

 

[Folster]

ROFL, that's the one spelling error you chose to correct? What made it stand out above the others for special treatment?

ADD. I was pointing out others that ozzfloyd missed when he corected, but there are a few more. *than *soar. Damn homonyms!

 

[elindholm]

I was pointing out others that ozzfloyd missed when he corected

Heh. It would be a full-time job to correct grammar and spelling on here.

 

[Covert Rain]

ROFL, that's the one spelling error you chose to correct? What made it stand out above the others for special treatment?

ADD. I was pointing out others that ozzfloyd missed when he corected, but there are a few more. *than *soar. Damn homonyms!

Shut the hell up. LOL.

I dud nod thunk wer in the gramer foreum.

 

[Folster]

Heh. It would be a full-time job to correct grammar and spelling on here.

Lol! That was a typo. Now you've got me all flustered.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Do you feel the same about the NFL?

Personally I'm upset with the whole NBA/ NFL fiasco.

no... i never expect anything from the Cardinals anyway and the NFL's gonna get it's **** together before games are lost.

 

[slinslin]

At least the lockout happens when there is absolutely zero interest in the Suns anyways.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

you know what... with the suns being a disaster and looking like they're going the way of the clippers... and i never thought i'd say this... but I might just be one of those fans who has takes a long hiatus from the NBA whenever they do come back.

i don't like a lot of the players anymore, the owners just seem to be jack-asses, david stern is a piece of crap and our owner makes me want to vomit.

maybe i'll be wrong and i'll probably come back when they do, but i've already drifted from caring about the suns the way i used to and if the league spits in my face the way i feel like my team has, i wonder if i'll drift altogether. only time will tell, but this lockout could just be disasterous for the league.

I already went this way last year. I went from watching nearly every game every year for the past 20 years to barely giving a crap this year. With the lockout official, it cements my position even more. (although the biggest reason for me to be checked out this year was because of the lockout)

I would not be surprised if we did not have a 2011-2012 year at all.

 

[boisesuns]

I already went this way last year. I went from watching nearly every game every year for the past 20 years to barely giving a crap this year. With the lockout official, it cements my position even more. (although the biggest reason for me to be checked out this year was because of the lockout)

I would not be surprised if we did not have a 2011-2012 year at all.

I did as well. I watched maybe one Suns game this year. I think it's becoming very obvious that the Suns will be average for years to come. Constant moves that were more about the bottom line than basketball over the last few years became pretty frustrating.

Several years ago we had a great roster (KT, AMARE, NASH, MARION, JJ) Now it's Nash who's left with players not as skilled, trying to compete.

Our plan after dumping/not signing some of the better players we had, was to roll out mediocre free agent singings, and sell draft picks. Great way to build it back up......

 

[elindholm]

I was a big baseball fan until the strike. It isn't that a hold a grudge or think that MLB needs to be punished. Instead, I just sort of lost track of the the team that I used to follow (Dodgers), and since then they have had some bad management and not a lot of success. Once you get out of the habit of following a team, you need a reason to come back, carving out the time in your life schedule that you used to. If the team has a bunch of different players from what you remember or simply isn't very good, why bother?

I suspect that lots of NBA fans will have the same reaction to a long work stoppage, especially for teams, like the Suns, that appear to be going through a fairly aimless period.

 

[Folster]

After last offseason, it became painfully obvious that the players have too much power. Lebron and Wade had the owners dancing like puppets. That angered a lot of prideful owners. Their decision to play together in Miami and subsequent talk of copy-cat super teams also threatened owners of smaller, less glamorous markets that don't have the resources to lure three superstars, all but guaranteeing they would lose their superstar/money maker to a big market. The league must be bigger than its players.

 

[Griffin]

From Wojnarowski's article. Nothing particularly surprising here:

The union still hopes those less adamant over the hard cap – the Los Angeles Lakers and Miami Heat, for example – will wrest control from the hardliners, including the Phoenix Suns, Boston Celtics and Cleveland Cavaliers.

He’s [Celtics owner Grousbeck] one of the owners believed to be willing to lose the next season, along with Phoenix’s Robert Sarver. The list goes on and on. The NBA goes away for the summer now, and nothing will get serious again until September when Stern will have to start cancelling games in the 2011-12 season.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...lug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_lockout_players_063011

 

[boisesuns]

I was a big baseball fan until the strike. It isn't that a hold a grudge or think that MLB needs to be punished. Instead, I just sort of lost track of the the team that I used to follow (Dodgers), and since then they have had some bad management and not a lot of success. Once you get out of the habit of following a team, you need a reason to come back, carving out the time in your life schedule that you used to. If the team has a bunch of different players from what you remember or simply isn't very good, why bother?

I suspect that lots of NBA fans will have the same reaction to a long work stoppage, especially for teams, like the Suns, that appear to be going through a fairly aimless period.

I'm in sort of the same boat as far as interest in the Suns. I've also been going to most Boise State football games for a long time, and following them closely. When they are winning almost all of their games, and their status nationally has continued to grow, it's a lot hard to turn on a Suns game and get anywhere near as in to it.

 

[Superbone]

After last offseason, it became painfully obvious that the players have too much power. Lebron and Wade had the owners dancing like puppets. That angered a lot of prideful owners. Their decision to play together in Miami and subsequent talk of copy-cat super teams also threatened owners of smaller, less glamorous markets that don't have the resources to lure three superstars, all but guaranteeing they would lose their superstar/money maker to a big market. The league must be bigger than its players.

Basically, we can all agree that LeBron is the root of all evil.

 

[az jam]

I was a big baseball fan until the strike. It isn't that a hold a grudge or think that MLB needs to be punished. Instead, I just sort of lost track of the the team that I used to follow (Dodgers), and since then they have had some bad management and not a lot of success. Once you get out of the habit of following a team, you need a reason to come back, carving out the time in your life schedule that you used to. If the team has a bunch of different players from what you remember or simply isn't very good, why bother?

I suspect that lots of NBA fans will have the same reaction to a long work stoppage, especially for teams, like the Suns, that appear to be going through a fairly aimless period.

That is an excellent point. The Suns don't have any real player pulls to get excited about and want to see. Additionally there are lots of things to do here in Phoenix during the months of the basketball season. Bottom line is we can certainly get use to not having the NBA to follow.

 

[Covert Rain]

I was a big baseball fan until the strike. It isn't that a hold a grudge or think that MLB needs to be punished. Instead, I just sort of lost track of the the team that I used to follow (Dodgers), and since then they have had some bad management and not a lot of success. Once you get out of the habit of following a team, you need a reason to come back, carving out the time in your life schedule that you used to. If the team has a bunch of different players from what you remember or simply isn't very good, why bother?

I suspect that lots of NBA fans will have the same reaction to a long work stoppage, especially for teams, like the Suns, that appear to be going through a fairly aimless period.

"a hold a"?

Great point elindholm. I think for the most part die hard fans will be die hard fans. However, as you can see with the Sun's fan base and basically any fan base in Arizona is that the bulk of fans come and go with team success. Those are the types of fans that especially here in Arizona you have to win back. They won't simply show up because you are playing again.

 

[az jam]

"a hold a"?

Great point elindholm. I think for the most part die hard fans will be die hard fans. However, as you can see with the Sun's fan base and basically any fan base in Arizona is that the bulk of fans come and go with team success. Those are the types of fans that especially here in Arizona you have to win back. They won't simply show up because you are playing again.

You are right and speaking about me. I admit that I am a fair weather fan especially when it comes to spending money on going to see a local team play.
Put a good product on the court/field whatever and I'm there to support them.
Too many other things to do being retired and living in Phoenix to support a crappy product. Sorry but that is just the way it is.

 

[carey]

I saw an interview with Dudley today where he says that the owners aren't negotiating at all, and that the players union has been preparing the players for this eventuality for four years. He says the NBAPA told him that it is possible two full seasons could be lost. It's sounding more and more like we'll miss at least a full season.

Here's the link: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=20417