Chad Ford at it again...

[Joe Mama]

I doubt the numbers really work out, but what if it was Amare Stoudemire and banks for Kevin Garnett?

Joe

 

[Cheesebeef]

I doubt the numbers really work out, but what if it was Amare Stoudemire and banks for Kevin Garnett?

Joe

the only way I do that is if they have a higher lottery pick than ours and we swap picks.

 

[Covert Rain]

I doubt the numbers really work out, but what if it was Amare Stoudemire and banks for Kevin Garnett?

Joe

Nope. No way no how. Marion and Banks....yes.

 

[Mainstreet]

Does Chad Ford know something that I do not know about Amare? The comment from Ford saying "From what I hear, the relationship is rocky..." is more worrisome than Amare's microfracture. I tend to think Ford's comment may have been related before the Suns made the decision to start Amare.

I definitely think Amare needs to be fed the ball to be effective and one of the reasons why I think Diaw should come off the bench to relieve Amare at center. Diaw seems to be most effective when he is fed the ball and forced to make plays inside. I can see some conflict in styles when Amare and Diaw are on the floor together.

 

[azirish]

On a more serious note, Banks did well on the Wolves and they might be willing to give him another shot. However, it would have to a multi-team deal because the Wolves don't have anyone in the right price range I'd want.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Nope. No way no how. Marion and Banks....yes.

I think you're smoking crack if you think that Minnesota would ever considered that deal for a nano-second.

seriously though, if the Wolves ended up with the number 2 pick and we ended up with 4, I'd seriously consider offering Amare and the number 4 and the Cleveland pick for Garnett and the #2 pick.

This lineup would be DA's dream I think:

Nash
Bell
Durant
Marion
KG

you not only would have two superior rebounders, but you also finally have a defender in KG who can matchup up with Dirk and Duncan without any help AND a 6'9 sky-walker who's also potentially a great rebounder and a dead eye shooter who can create his own shot and create matchup hell for other 3s.

That team gives DA rebounding and THREE legit three point shooters in the starting lineup, which we don't have now.

you bring Leo and Boris off the bench with KT and that team is FRIGHTENING.

I'd actually do that deal in a heartbeat, but I'm not sure the Wolves would. Although, how much better of a deal can they get for KG than Amare and a freaking lotto pick?

 

[Mainstreet]

On a more serious note, Banks did well on the Wolves and they might be willing to give him another shot. However, it would have to a multi-team deal because the Wolves don't have anyone in the right price range I'd want.

I agree and made a comment to this effect before but no one seemed to think Minnesota wanted him back. I still think this might be a likely home for Banks.

 

[Diawsome]

The last time a player of Stoudemire's value was traded while currently under contract was ... um ... someone help me out here. A long, long freaking time ago. His trade value right now is higher than Iverson's or O'Neal's were.

There is a reason you struggle to think of an example that would be similar to trading Amare and the reason is that no one trades a 24 year old all star big man. It is near impossible to get equal value in return for that.

 

[PhxGametime]

So are the Suns looking for cheap talent and cap space (for Amare or Marion)?


i don't understand why they don't just buyout Kurt Thomas and maybe Trade Banks and the two lower 1st Round Picks for cap space?


I really haven't looked at Hoopshype in a while but thats about 11-12 Million off cap, Rookie with Hawks Pick replaces KT...


I don't understand why one of the big pieces have-to be moved?

 

[AsUdUdE]

This idea was orginally posted over on PHXsuns.net, but what if this is the situation:

Memphis gets the #1 pick, drafts Oden.

We then trade Marion/Banks/#24 & #29 picks to the Griz for Gasol.

We then could use our #5 pick on Cory Brewer (the 3rd biggest stud of the Draft IMO) and we cut salery and improve our team, while the Griz get a great defensive player, and more draft picks to build and devolp their young team ...

Our rotation would be:

PG: Nash/Barbs
SG: Bell/barbs
SF: Brewer/Diaw
PF: Amare/KT
C: Pau Gasol/KT

thats still a championship roster and gets us younger and out of Tax land!

 

[Gaddabout]

I'm confused. If the Suns trade Amare Stoudemire to dump salary, they still have to take almost the same salary in return, which does nothing to prevent getting the cap tax hit next year. The year after that KT's $8 million comes off the books, and you figure he'll be replaced by a rookie/younger player with a cheaper contract. Also, the cap will be raised, I suspect substantially. The year after that Marion's old salary is off the books and you have to think he'll be gone via FA if he hasn't been traded already.

What does trading Stoudemire do for next year's income? Nothing, except possibly lowering considering the likelihood the team would have fewer playoff games. What does trading Stoudemire do in two years? Again, probably nothing, since you're losing more than half of salary with a player who will probably retire, and probably keeping half of the salary of whichever contributor you kept from the Stoudemire trade. Remember, the hit in cap tax has to be weighed against a full season + post-season revenue. If they're still in the cap tax territory without Stoudemire, that's a hell of a lot of red ink that won't justify trading him away.

So ... trading Stoudemire doesn't really save much money, if any at all! THE ONLY REASON YOU TRADE SOMEONE LIKE STOUDEMIRE IS IF YOU THINK IT WILL MAKE YOU BETTER.

 

[TheHopToad]

seriously though, if the Wolves ended up with the number 2 pick and we ended up with 4, I'd seriously consider offering Amare and the number 4 and the Cleveland pick for Garnett and the #2 pick.

I would also do this deal, but otherwise, I wouldn't trade Amare unless it was something totally ridiculous, like to Boston for Paul Pierce and the #1 or to the Spurs for Duncan and Parker, or to Dallas for Dirk and Josh Howard....heck I might not even do those.

Well....I'd do the Dirk deal for Steve.

 

[elindholm]

Gaddabout is right, trading Stoudemire doesn't save money. And he has a good contract anyway, as long as his knees hold up.

I don't like a Stoudemire/Garnett swap. Stoudemire has more value at this point in their careers (taking salary also into consideration), and the Wolves don't have anything else Phoenix wants.

If the Suns believed they had to trade Stoudemire, they should call Memphis. The Grizzlies would, I think, happily cough up Gasol, Gay (who would be great on the Suns), and a draft upgrade (although not for the top two). They'd probably be willing to take on Banks's contract as well.

Then basically you're trading Stoudemire for an adequate replacement (not to say that Gasol is at Stoudemire's level), the SF of the future, better young talent, and the opportunity to sign another bench player with Banks's money. That wouldn't be the end of the world.

As far as Marion for Gasol goes, that doesn't make sense for either team. Stoudemire and Diaw are already redundant (or so we have been told); throw Gasol into the mix and it's impossible to get good production from everyone.

 

[TheHopToad]

I don't like a Stoudemire/Garnett swap.

I don't either, but the one mentioned in the fantasy above also gave us Durant. I would surely do that deal, but even Kevin McHale, if he is still there, isn't that stupid....I don't think.

 

[JS22]

I doubt the numbers really work out, but what if it was Amare Stoudemire and banks for Kevin Garnett?

Joe

Garnett is just too old at this point to be traded for Amare straight up. (I can't count Banks at this point.)

 

[JS22]

I think you're smoking crack if you think that Minnesota would ever considered that deal for a nano-second.

seriously though, if the Wolves ended up with the number 2 pick and we ended up with 4, I'd seriously consider offering Amare and the number 4 and the Cleveland pick for Garnett and the #2 pick.

This lineup would be DA's dream I think:

Nash
Bell
Durant
Marion
KG

you not only would have two superior rebounders, but you also finally have a defender in KG who can matchup up with Dirk and Duncan without any help AND a 6'9 sky-walker who's also potentially a great rebounder and a dead eye shooter who can create his own shot and create matchup hell for other 3s.

That team gives DA rebounding and THREE legit three point shooters in the starting lineup, which we don't have now.

you bring Leo and Boris off the bench with KT and that team is FRIGHTENING.

I'd actually do that deal in a heartbeat, but I'm not sure the Wolves would. Although, how much better of a deal can they get for KG than Amare and a freaking lotto pick?

This one of the very few Amare trades that I would even remotely consider.

 

[dodie53]

imo, the suns' untouchables are nash, amare, and LB

how about, diaw, marion, banks and #4 for gasol, gay and
torrence kinsey (sp?)

 

[hsandhu]

I think you're smoking crack if you think that Minnesota would ever considered that deal for a nano-second.

seriously though, if the Wolves ended up with the number 2 pick and we ended up with 4, I'd seriously consider offering Amare and the number 4 and the Cleveland pick for Garnett and the #2 pick.

This lineup would be DA's dream I think:

Nash
Bell
Durant
Marion
KG

you not only would have two superior rebounders, but you also finally have a defender in KG who can matchup up with Dirk and Duncan without any help AND a 6'9 sky-walker who's also potentially a great rebounder and a dead eye shooter who can create his own shot and create matchup hell for other 3s.

That team gives DA rebounding and THREE legit three point shooters in the starting lineup, which we don't have now.

you bring Leo and Boris off the bench with KT and that team is FRIGHTENING.

I'd actually do that deal in a heartbeat, but I'm not sure the Wolves would. Although, how much better of a deal can they get for KG than Amare and a freaking lotto pick?

I have to say on paper that trade is genius. I didn't think it was possible to come up with a realistic trade that I would agree to move Amare, but this is one, and maybe the only one.

The only problems is if minny can get durant, they aren't making that deal. They'd put durant w/garnett. And if they do move garnett, they aint putting durant in the deal, they're rebuilding w/durant/foye,young players for garnett.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have to say on paper that trade is genius. I didn't think it was possible to come up with a realistic trade that I would agree to move Amare, but this is one, and maybe the only one.

The only problems is if minny can get durant, they aren't making that deal. They'd put durant w/garnett. And if they do move garnett, they aint putting durant in the deal, they're rebuilding w/durant/foye,young players for garnett.

yeah, I know - on paper it looks great for the Suns and it's the only deal I could think of that I would be happy with them making (actually, I'd be all for it) but you're right, I think we'd have to sweeten our end of the deal a little more if they were gonna make it and even then, it's doubtful.

but you don't think Amare the number 4 pick and Foye is tempting for the Wolves? I wonder what more they can get.

that being said, the above is a pipe-dream.

 

[devilalum]

I'm not saying the SUns should trade Amare but he is not the dominate force you all seem to believe.

If he's so dominant why did the Suns win almost as many games last year without him as they did this year with him? If KT hadn't got injured last year the Suns would have won just as many games and probably won the title.

 

[cly2tw]

Compared to Mike James, Speedy Claxton, Watson, Derek Fisher, and all the other MLE signings on Wolves' roster, Banks's contract is not that bad. He was made look bad in the Suns situation. With 4.2mil per year, he is at most overpaid by 2mil on an average team if his production last year was any reliable indication. I think we are too negatively biased from the Suns perspective. He should not be that difficult to move.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Compared to Mike James, Speedy Claxton, Watson, Derek Fisher, and all the other MLE signings on Wolves' roster, Banks's contract is not that bad. He was made look bad in the Suns situation. With 4.2mil per year, he is at most overpaid by 2mil on an average team if his production last year was any reliable indication. I think we are too negatively biased from the Suns perspective. He should not be that difficult to move.

he's been a complete to relative bust in three different systems - not sure how many people want a guy with those kind of glowing credentials sucking up parts of their salary cap.

 

[hsandhu]

yeah, I know - on paper it looks great for the Suns and it's the only deal I could think of that I would be happy with them making (actually, I'd be all for it) but you're right, I think we'd have to sweeten our end of the deal a little more if they were gonna make it and even then, it's doubtful.

but you don't think Amare the number 4 pick and Foye is tempting for the Wolves? I wonder what more they can get.

that being said, the above is a pipe-dream.

yeah gettin amare for kg is good if you're minny because of the age, but it would kind of be nullified by durant for say brandon wright. wright is expected to be an all-star level player, durant an mvp level player.

It would have to take barbosa too. Then maybe you're talking. btw, like you said it is pipe dream because minny is stupid in not wanting to trade kg, and i dont expect that to change.

But again I cant stress enough how on paper this trade is pure genius. I would've had to have had a freakin' epiphany to come up with it. If on may 22nd minny somehow gets the second pick, someone in the suns organization at least has to hear about this trade...

 

[Joe Mama]

I think you're smoking crack if you think that Minnesota would ever considered that deal for a nano-second.

seriously though, if the Wolves ended up with the number 2 pick and we ended up with 4, I'd seriously consider offering Amare and the number 4 and the Cleveland pick for Garnett and the #2 pick.

This lineup would be DA's dream I think:

Nash
Bell
Durant
Marion
KG

you not only would have two superior rebounders, but you also finally have a defender in KG who can matchup up with Dirk and Duncan without any help AND a 6'9 sky-walker who's also potentially a great rebounder and a dead eye shooter who can create his own shot and create matchup hell for other 3s.

That team gives DA rebounding and THREE legit three point shooters in the starting lineup, which we don't have now.

you bring Leo and Boris off the bench with KT and that team is FRIGHTENING.

I'd actually do that deal in a heartbeat, but I'm not sure the Wolves would. Although, how much better of a deal can they get for KG than Amare and a freaking lotto pick?

I'm sure the Timberwolves would not make that deal. If Amare Stoudemire did not have micro fracture surgery last summer they might do it. Of course then we wouldn't even be talking about it.

I'm confused. If the Suns trade Amare Stoudemire to dump salary, they still have to take almost the same salary in return, which does nothing to prevent getting the cap tax hit next year. The year after that KT's $8 million comes off the books, and you figure he'll be replaced by a rookie/younger player with a cheaper contract. Also, the cap will be raised, I suspect substantially. The year after that Marion's old salary is off the books and you have to think he'll be gone via FA if he hasn't been traded already.

What does trading Stoudemire do for next year's income? Nothing, except possibly lowering considering the likelihood the team would have fewer playoff games. What does trading Stoudemire do in two years? Again, probably nothing, since you're losing more than half of salary with a player who will probably retire, and probably keeping half of the salary of whichever contributor you kept from the Stoudemire trade. Remember, the hit in cap tax has to be weighed against a full season + post-season revenue. If they're still in the cap tax territory without Stoudemire, that's a hell of a lot of red ink that won't justify trading him away.

So ... trading Stoudemire doesn't really save much money, if any at all! THE ONLY REASON YOU TRADE SOMEONE LIKE STOUDEMIRE IS IF YOU THINK IT WILL MAKE YOU BETTER.

Trading Amare Stoudemire to a team under the salary cap for players who are making about one third as much saves the difference in salary. Isn't Deng a free agent though? Maybe he's eligible for an extension this summer.

I'll tell you what swapping Amare Stoudemire for Kevin Garnett does for this team. He gives them the best chance at a championship next year and probably a year after. Amare Stoudemire is a finisher at one end of the court. I was laughing my butt off the other night when Dan Majerle was talking about how much better Amare defense is. His defense is a joke.

Even on his crappy Minnesota team with little to nothing to play for Kevin Garnett is a much better player than Amare Stoudemire. I think he would be an MVP candidate on this Phoenix Suns team. He would be invigorated. He can actually defend a post without a double-team. He's actually a great weak side defender.

On top of that, with my deal you get rid of Marcus Banks. I'm honestly not even sure Minnesota would make that deal. I'm surprised EVERYONE shot it down so quickly.

Maybe I'm just a super pessimist, but I fully expect Amare Stoudemire to miss major, major time within the next couple years.

Joe

 

[mathbzh]

I don't think Amare is untradable. But I don't want him to be traded for any unproven rookie. Actually I don't want him to be traded. But if the trade is Amare/KG... well... I may think twice... even if it is not cap-wise