Chad Ford at it again...

[tobiazz]

I'm not saying the SUns should trade Amare but he is not the dominate force you all seem to believe.

If he's so dominant why did the Suns win almost as many games last year without him as they did this year with him?

He definitely adds a nice different look for the Suns, but I have never seen a "beast" blocked as many times as Amare. He depends way more on quickness than elevation. It is what it is, but it's a shame that his athleticism has fallen behind that of Dwight Howard and Chris Bosh.

 

[Hugh D'Man]

He definitely adds a nice different look for the Suns, but I have never seen a "beast" blocked as many times as Amare. He depends way more on quickness than elevation. It is what it is, but it's a shame that his athleticism has fallen behind that of Dwight Howard and Chris Bosh.

BAMM


Standing Tall and Traded

 

[cly2tw]

He definitely adds a nice different look for the Suns, but I have never seen a "beast" blocked as many times as Amare. He depends way more on quickness than elevation. It is what it is, but it's a shame that his athleticism has fallen behind that of Dwight Howard and Chris Bosh.

If it makes him work on smarter low post moves a la Dream or Brand, it's then a blessing in disguise. He is not as quick and powerful at his jumps as before the surgery. But his is still better than Bosh and Dwight's when he is not playing tired.

 

[slinslin]

Dwight Howard gets 10% of his shots blocked, Amare 8%... nuff said.

 

[Budden]

The problem with trading Amare is that it wouldn't be done for the typical reasons. Essentially, trading Amare Stoudemire this offseason is like trading uncertainty. This offseason will be the first one in two years that he'll actually be able to work on his skills. Last offseason, he probably was able to improve his jumper a little bit, but most of his time was spent strengthening both of his knees. We know that Amare improved significantly in each offseason before his knee problems, and we should see that again this offseason as well. Whenever you talk about Amare Stoudemire as a basketball player, you have to admit that the guy has a drive to improve. He came into the league wanting to be the best basketball player ever, and I really thought he was on track to do so. If he gets a little more of his athleticism back and refines his post game he could be truly dominate with or without Steve Nash in the game.

All of that said, none of it may ever happen. He's not your typical guy with potential that some GM's are willing to roll the dice on while others are not. There's no way of estimating the probability of him reinjuring his left knee. People say it'll be 5 years and he'll need another microfracture. What does that even mean? If he needs the procedure 5 years from now, what will it be like 3 years from now? Obviously, his knee won't just be perfect for 5 years and wake up one day and not be able to walk. Will it deteriorate gradually or will he just become a bit more susceptible to a serious injury during game action?

Really, it comes down to the fact that there's no in-between here. If Amare is healthy, you would only realistically trade him for an MVP-type guy. Amare for KG? Maybe. Amare for Lebron? Sure. Amare for Kobe? If the situation was right. If he's not healthy, however, he'll be a $15 million contract that's not worth more than a Penny (yes, it's a pun). You can't really trade for, say, Manu Ginobli because he's kind of in between scrub and MVP.

 

[dodie53]

amare and marion for lebron, varejao and gooden

 

[elindholm]

You can't really trade for, say, Manu Ginobli because he's kind of in between scrub and MVP.

That's a relief, since I would have to commit several violent felonies if the Suns ever traded for Ginobili.

 

[dodie53]

having a flopper on a team has it's advantages..
lol

btw, anyone think that ginoseli is a good fit for a run n gun team?
just asking here..

 

[Budden]

That's a relief, since I would have to commit several violent felonies if the Suns ever traded for Ginobili.

Personally, I would find a really crowded bicylce path and just kind of get in people's way, stick my foot out, throw a little stick in between someone's spokes, etc. I would pretend like I was completely innocent and feel offended if somebody accused me of doing something wrong.

This way, I could get out my anger whilst also gaining a more personal understanding of Ginobli's game.

 

[boisesuns]

Personally, I would find a really crowded bicylce path and just kind of get in people's way, stick my foot out, throw a little stick in between someone's spokes, etc. I would pretend like I was completely innocent and feel offended if somebody accused me of doing something wrong.

This way, I could get out my anger whilst also gaining a more personal understanding of Ginobli's game.

Would you flop and pretend the bikes hit you, when they really didnt?

 

[panfolk]

I'm not saying the SUns should trade Amare but he is not the dominate force you all seem to believe.

If he's so dominant why did the Suns win almost as many games last year without him as they did this year with him? If KT hadn't got injured last year the Suns would have won just as many games and probably won the title.

I'm glad someone said this, and I agree completely.

Gaddabout is right, trading Stoudemire doesn't save money. And he has a good contract anyway, as long as his knees hold up.

If we don't win the title, and his effort (like others) isn't any more consistent than during the regular season (namely rebounding and defense) his knees are the least of our concerns.

THE ONLY REASON YOU TRADE SOMEONE LIKE STOUDEMIRE IS IF YOU THINK IT WILL MAKE YOU BETTER.

I don't think any of us (or Chad Ford) would be suggesting Amare trades if there wasn't some level of frustration with the success of this years team. Months ago I said I thought Amare could be what put us over the top, but after some of our key losses I'm going into the playoffs doubting we are better off than last year. Here's hoping I'm wrong

Also, I think the closed-door meetings are more concerning than ANYTHING else.

 

[panfolk]

Trading Amare Stoudemire to a team under the salary cap for players who are making about one third as much saves the difference in salary. Isn't Deng a free agent though? Maybe he's eligible for an extension this summer.

Forgive my ignorance, but please describe how that type of trade would work. Also, I think you are on target with your proposed trade.

 

[SO91]

Closed doors meetings happen a lot with most of the teams. Look at Shawn Marion last year!

 

[panfolk]

Closed doors meetings happen a lot with most of the teams. Look at Shawn Marion last year!

I must have missed that. I hope I'm unfair in thinking his ego doesn't play well with others.

 

[SO91]

It was in McCallum's book about last year's postseason. I would imagine they happen more often than we hear.

 

[tobiazz]

Dwight Howard gets 10% of his shots blocked, Amare 8%... nuff said.

Fascinating, I'm surprised by that (though I don't get to watch Howard play much). Where did you look that up that stat?

NOTE: I would imagine Howard takes a much higher ratio of inside to outside shots than Amare (since Amare takes a few mid-range jumpers), so Dwight's 10% may be more impressive than Amare's 8%. In other words, Howard may have a smaller percentage of "blockable" shots blocked than Amare since long range jumpers tend to be more open than shots in the paint.

I want to see Amare do the sticker dunk and see if he can get higher than Howard

Not trying to diminish Amare, but we've all seen him get blocked on plays where the old Amare would have made a poster.

 

[azirish]

Right now, I don't think Amare is as explosive when jumping without a running start. It used to be that he could get the ball under the basket and dunk even with guys all over him. Now they effect him, though his shooting percentage is quite good.

 

[KB24FTW]

Right now, I don't think Amare is as explosive when jumping without a running start.

I agree. He isn't.

 

[msdundee]

Right now, I don't think Amare is as explosive when jumping without a running start. It used to be that he could get the ball under the basket and dunk even with guys all over him. Now they effect him, though his shooting percentage is quite good.

In 2005 that was pretty much Amare's game. He didn't have a lot outside the post to worry about but he could throw it down over just about anyone. This year his shooting percentage stays good because he's got some nice jumpers up to 15' out that have been very effective. Switch-offs aren't likely to stop his jumper but if it pulls the bigs out a little to stay with him, that's an advantage for everyone else.

Amare's game isn't the same as it was two years ago but allover it may be better. Working him back into the Suns game took a while, not easy for him or for the team in general. He'll still get enough dunks to make everyone happy -- he'll slam it down when he can -- but being a well-rounded team player in this system will let him contribute more than scoring 35-40 every game and carrying the offensive load. The one-man shows aren't that effective over a seven-game series.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The one-man shows aren't that effective over a seven-game series.

tell that to Dwayne Wade and the defending Champs.

all of this talk that Amare has a more well rounded game now, as opposed to 2005 is really just wishful thinking. The guy was literally unstoppable from almost EVERYWHERE, 18 feet out, down around the basket,on the block with his spin move and just blowing by people from the elbow. No one had ever seen the kindof game Amare was throwing down on people and to try and intimate that somehow, this watered down version of Amare is overall better Ithink is people trying to convince themselves we're better off this way. You're NEVER better off not having a guy who can literally do anything he wants on the court and that's the level Amare was at. We didn't lose becase he was scoring 37 ppg, we were losing because that team played literally NO defense.

make no mistake, a guy doesn't have to be a one-man show for an entire series, but almost every title team had a guy who's able to be a one man show for an entire fourth quarter - Amare ain't that guy yet. I'm just hoping we're the offensive equivalent of the defensive Pistons, the only other team in recent memory who couldn't depend on one guy to carry them down the stretch.

 

[msdundee]

tell that to Dwayne Wade and the defending Champs.

all of this talk that Amare has a more well rounded game now, as opposed to 2005 is really just wishful thinking. The guy was literally unstoppable from almost EVERYWHERE, 18 feet out, down around the basket,on the block with his spin move and just blowing by people from the elbow. No one had ever seen the kindof game Amare was throwing down on people and to try and intimate that somehow, this watered down version of Amare is overall better Ithink is people trying to convince themselves we're better off this way. You're NEVER better off not having a guy who can literally do anything he wants on the court and that's the level Amare was at. We didn't lose becase he was scoring 37 ppg, we were losing because that team played literally NO defense.

make no mistake, a guy doesn't have to be a one-man show for an entire series, but almost every title team had a guy who's able to be a one man show for an entire fourth quarter - Amare ain't that guy yet. I'm just hoping we're the offensive equivalent of the defensive Pistons, the only other team in recent memory who couldn't depend on one guy to carry them down the stretch.

Yeah, you're probably right. As usual.

 

[TheHopToad]

almost every title team had a guy who's able to be a one man show for an entire fourth quarter - Amare ain't that guy yet.

No, but Steve Nash is...

 

[Cheesebeef]

No, but Steve Nash is...

I don't think Nash is that guy either. He's an amazing player and the MVP of the league, but he's not filfthy like Amare was, Wade is, Duncan is and Kobe are at the end of games, literally doing whatever the hell they want against anyone put against him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, you're probably right. As usual.

jeez, man, just cause I disagreed with you and provided reasons why doesn't mean you've got to get all snippy with me. where am I wrong?

 

[msdundee]

jeez, man, just cause I disagreed with you and provided reasons why doesn't mean you've got to get all snippy with me. where am I wrong?

Never said you were wrong. Apparently I missed all Amare's great 18-foot jumpers you saw in 2005. I believe that a team with well-balanced scoring across the board is harder to defend than a one-man show. You don't.