Chandler Jones, sign or not..

[Stout]

No


That $100+M Chandler wants and will get is backbreaking. I just dont think he's dominant enough to warrant it.

The NFL market has become a paid-by-position market, not paid-by-performance. "Oh, youre a starting CB or pass rusher? Let me offer you more money than the last starter at your position who got paid; regardless if that player is better than you."


Why should we pay Chandler $18M per year, while Golden makes $1M per (on his rookie deal)? Chandler isnt 18x better than Golden.

And what OLB are we going to sign with that money that is anywhere as good or better?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

First off, re-sign him no brainer. Second moving back to a 4-3 actually makes sense. Move Golden & Jones to DE, Gunter & Peters play DT, you can move Bucanon to WOLB, we would only need 1 ILB, pay Jones with CC money because then he doesn't need to be re-signed. You need a lot more in 3-4 than in a 4-3 and it would be easier for ARZ to fill those holes in a 4-3. May have to draft another OLB or sign one in FA.

I will bite.

If we go 4-3, then fine. You put Deone Bucanon at WILB which I in my merger opinion I hate (the guy is safety, stop this madness that is NOT working in the league of putting a safety at ILB), but I digress the Cardinals would have to put Bucannon at WILB, they would have no choice.

We have the defensive ends in Alex Okafor, and Chandler Jones. It would be suspect if Golden can make the switch to DE since he didn't play it in college, he played with Shane Ray in a 3-4, IIRC.

Defensive tackle, I like putting Peters and Gunter out there but, Peters is a better NT, so I would just release Peters, and try to get a more tradition DT pairing like Gunter, and Nkemdiche. But, this makes Ed Stinson, Josh Mauro worthless in this system, but that is no biggie because Xiaver Williams, and Olson Pierre fit the bill for depth.

The secondary would be fine.

The problem is linebackers......which is CRAZY because this is supposed to be a 3-4 defense and we lack 4 ILBers on this roster. There is NO WAY Minter could handle being an ILB in a 4-3, or even the Sam Linebacker position, but that is just because he can't play linebacker period.

So, the Cardinals would have to find at least 4 linebackers, and that is keeping Bucanon at linebacker. I would say it is safe to say that Alani Fua, and Gabe Martin could be salvaged as depth. But there would have to be a big investment in linebackers to pull this off.


DE:
Chandler Jones
Alex Okafor
?Marcus Golden?
______________

DT:
Rodney Gunter
Robert Nkemdiche
Xiaver Williams
Olson Pierre

WLB:
Deone Bucanon [Sigh] <-- In my world (LOL) he is not here.
__________

ILB:
__________
Gabe Martin

SLB:
__________
Alani Fua

CB:
Patrick Peterson
______________
Marcus Cooper
Brandon Williams
[Camp winner of what we got now]


NB [Wildcard]:
Tyrann Mathieu


S:
Tony Jefferson
[Deone Bucanon] <---- In my world this is where you want this kid
Tyvon Branch
D.J. Swearinger/___________


That is how I would see this current roster fit into a 4-3. Just my opinion. Definitely a possibility, but risk blowing up a top 5 defense, and instituting a completely new playbook.

I am saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[BigRedRage]

...

EDIT: Nevermind, I get it. You do not want to re-sign him because you think he is overrated, and you want that money put towards other positions.

Fair enough. I do not agree, but understand the thinking, at least the second part of it. It is a valid argument, this team does have a lot of holes.

Just a hard position to find talent at, thus I think that would be a bad decision. Jones is playing very well if you ask me.

Letting him go means going back to only having one OLB who can rush the pass. That is my concern. We suck at finding players to do that job and once we finally have two, we might let one walk?

 

[Bodha]

And what OLB are we going to sign with that money that is anywhere as good or better?

None. Its moneyball. You cant replace him with 1 guy. You need to replace him with several. DL needs to get more pressure (Nkemdiche does a long way here, need him to wake up). DEs need to get more pressure. ILB with pass rush ability (ala Dwash). Draft an OLB (several good ones in this draft). Its not easy, but its doable if you make it a priority.


We lose a darn good player, but we also lose the financial burden of that albatross contract. Contracts like that make it impossible to fill out your roster with consistent talent.

 

[Bodha]

Charles Harris is a 34OLB/43DE who really intrigues me---a slightly more athletic version of fellow Missouri Tiger Markus Golden.

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good call, I was going to mention him in my post above. I really like Charles Harris. Hes not Chandler, but hes good enough to where you wont miss Chandler. and you get him on a reasonable 3 year rookie deal. Enabling you to pay guys like David Johnson. Maybe keep CC around. Its a smart move.

 

[juza76]

Bucannon has to play SS, will be only a weak part against the run playing linebacker

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Letting him go means going back to only having one OLB who can rush the pass. That is my concern. We suck at finding players to do that job and once we finally have two, we might let one walk?

I am 100% in agreement with you. When I say "I get it" it just means I understand the argument against it, and while valid, I do not personally agree.

But, some feel Chandler Jones is overrated, so they do not want to spend the money to keep him.

Personally? You are not going to find a better pass rusher, and chances are the Cardinals would end up getting a lesser talent, and paying more money then it will take to extend Jones before free agency hits.

JMHO based on the decade long quest of finding a top line pass rusher and failing up till now. Chandler Jones is 11th in the league in sacks right now, on a defense that is close to, or are top 10 in about every category on defense.

With all the issues on offense, it seems to be looking for more issue to get rid of him, but that is just me.

 

[JeffGollin]

If the price isn't outrageous, sign him.

In the NFL, you live by the "bird-in-hand rule, and CJ has demonstrated he can get the job done.

The downfall of many a franchise has been when its mgt spends too much of its time and energy chasing rainbows. Unless they get extremely lucky, it's a sucker's play (what percentage of guys with "potential" actually pan out)?

 

[cardncubfan]

We finally get the pass rusher we always needed & some of you want to get rid of him. Don't get it. Before we got CJones everyone was saying all we need is a pass rusher. Now that we have a legit one it's too cost prohibitive. ''Let's draft a guy we have no idea if he's any good at the pro level but hell he's cheap''. Doesn't make any sense.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Let him go, he's overrated and not worth the money. This team desperately needs ILB's, Corners, ......hell, they need alot.

Edit: But I'm sure Keim will do the stupid thing and re-sign him.

A good pass rush, however, helps out your corners...Keeping the existing pass rush is probably easier than finding more corners.

 

[stretchthefield]

Keep him around

 

[splitsecond]

Cards should re-sign him. Even if he gets the same deal as Von Miller, in two years it'll look like a bargain.

This. The price is only going to go up especially with above-average to good pass rushers like Olivier Vernon commanding ridiculous overpayment.

 

[sdscard4]

You sign him. He gets to the qb. Reminds me of S. Rice

 

[Brak]

Pay the man. Easy decision. Why? There are a few positions in the NFL where you sometimes MUST pay through the nose to get your man. They are the most critical spots - pass rusher, LT, shutdown corner, QB, and WR. Some might add RB to that list. Quality players at those positions don't grow on trees, and great prospects often don't pan out - when you've got a bird in the hand like Jones, you hang onto him and pay him, especially at his age. He and Golden are evolving into quote a force. No doubt in my mind that the Cards will get him signed to a long-term deal. And he seems to want to stay here. Win/win.

 

[speedy]

I thinks it's a foregone conclusion that the FO is going to sign him to a LTD and pay up. They could franchise him, but I only see that if for other financial/roster considerations. They won't be doing it to wait and see what's in store for the 17/18 draft, IMO.

Kinda reminds me of Antrel and Karlos; I could understand letting rolle walk (for the $$$ he was commanding) but Dansby was someone we wiffed on.

Certain positions you can for go paying for (all relative from one franchise to the next), but some positions you are just foolish to contemplate; QBs and pass rushers are those positions.

 

[GatorAZ]

Non-exclusive Franchise Tag. If someone wants to give him Von Miller money (which they're two completely different caliber of players) I'm good with two first round picks.

 

[Stout]

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We suffered from a lack of pass-rushing outside players, and now that we have one, I damn sure don't want to let him walk because he's expensive.

 

[cardpa]

I am going to throw this out here. At this point in the season in 12 games, Jones has 8 sacks nd 3 FF. Last season Dwight Freeney in 11 games had 8 sacks and 3 FF. Pretty similar stats. How much is Jones worth? He's not in the Von Miller or Khalil Mack zone. I think he is one tier below them. So how much is enough and how much is too much to pay Jones? It's true we haven't had a guy like him here in a while or did we just last year in Freeney? I think it makes for some interesting conversation. Seems everyone here is on one side of the fence or the other. I think the real question is what other teams may be willing to pay him.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

No


That $100+M Chandler wants and will get is backbreaking. I just dont think he's dominant enough to warrant it.

The NFL market has become a paid-by-position market, not paid-by-performance. "Oh, youre a starting CB or pass rusher? Let me offer you more money than the last starter at your position who got paid; regardless if that player is better than you."


Why should we pay Chandler $18M per year, while Golden makes $1M per (on his rookie deal)? Chandler isnt 18x better than Golden.

Basically, you like the Browns philosophy on fielding a team...lol Jettison the veterans making money and keep the cheep rookie/young labor...lol 0-16 here we come.

 

[oaken1]

tough part is we need to keep Golden too...IMO he and Jones make each other better

 

[bg7brd]

A good pass rush, however, helps out your corners...Keeping the existing pass rush is probably easier than finding more corners.

I agree. Adding a decent corner opposite of PP21 will go a long way in improving the pass rush.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I agree. Adding a decent corner opposite of PP21 will go a long way in improving the pass rush.

That's the opposite of my post...lol It can go either way, however...but the Cards already have the pass rush, to take pressure off the corners. Why dump the pass rush, only to have to now find another corner that can cover long enough to protect a weak pass rush? Doesn't make sense, to me.

 

[TJ]

Re-sign him.

Discussion over. Lock the thread.

 

[Darkside]

Sign him. Quality DE's don't grow on trees, it's one of the most difficult positions to fill. Especially young ones.

We sign him and we have quality @ CB in PP, quality in TM (assuming he gets healthy and returns to form) and quality at DE in Jones. All young core players on the defense. If Nkemdiche pans out that's 4 young, core players on the D.

You can't have all pros at every position on D, but having 3 or 4 quality, core players means you can fill out the remaining positions with solid grinders, creating depth.

It's simply too important a position not to fill when you have the chance, because those opportunities don't come around often.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[Jetstream Green]

Sign him. Quality DE's don't grow on trees, it's one of the most difficult positions to fill. Especially young ones.

We sign him and we have quality @ CB in PP, quality in TM (assuming he gets healthy and returns to form) and quality at DE in Jones. All young core players on the defense. If Nkemdiche pans out that's 4 young, core players on the D.

You can't have all pros at every position on D, but having 3 or 4 quality, core players means you can fill out the remaining positions with solid grinders, creating depth.

It's simply too important a position not to fill when you have the chance, because those opportunities don't come around often.

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Exactly, it has taken this team forever to find a young stud to apply the heat on QBs and you sure do not let them walk out the door after acquiring them and even though he might not be a Von Miller, I still think it was a steal to get him in a second round trade