Channel 10 news... trade?

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by JJ Slim
So are you saying Big Jake was valueable?

He can't be--he's argued time and again that Jake was worthless...

 

[JJ Slim]

Originally posted by hcsilla
He was a more important factor of their defense but he usually got quick fouls partially because of the different officiating in Europe.

If I remember right didn't Jake have trouble with fouls when he first started with the Suns because of the difference in officiating and rules between Europe and the NBA? It seems like it took a little while but once he got acclimated to the NBA he was getting less fouls. Now he goes back, is comfortable with the NBA system and has to play in the Europe system which is now foreign to him leading to more fouls.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Maybe.Maybe not.

I agree with slinslin, you have to give something if you want a better contract instead of Outlaw's.
That something was Tsakalidis.
That didn't make you happy (neither me) but it probably was not too high prize.

Exactly. I think that some of us here are overestimating what Big Jake's value was to the rest of the league. First of all, he was not an imposing defensive presence like some people have been saying. There are only a few centers in the NBA he was good at defending. His size helped him against Shaq although he is worth there has been grossly overrated here. He did OK against Yao Ming last season. Against the smaller, faster centers he was absolutely useless. In fact he was a liability because he could not go out to guard them from taking open 10-15 foot jump shots.

There might have been a better trade out there at some point this season. It's possible. It's also possible that this was the best thing they were going to get offered. Maybe they won't even keep Brevin Knight through the end of the season. There's no doubt his contract will be tradable if they want to add somebody at the trading deadline. Same goes for Archibald's contract if that is actually guaranteed.

I really like the wait and see approach to these trades. Let's see if they do anything else. Let's see if Big Jake does anything in Memphis. Let's see if there is a miracle and Trybanski or Archibald contribute.

I think most of us like the Marbury/Jason Kidd trade now. There were many who did not at first. On the other hand many people like myself trying to rationalize the Cliff Robinson trade for salary reasons. It turned out the Phoenix Suns would have been much better off waiting and trading him to Orlando. They probably would have received an extra draft pick or something.

Joe Mama

 

[hcsilla]

Another aspect of the Knight-trade:

Suns got a 2003 1st round pick from ORL for taking of Outlaw's contract.
Now they gave Tsakalidis for getting rid of the last year of the same contract.

So Suns spent about 10 mil. on Outlaw and basically switched Tsakalidis to Cabarkapa for renting of Outlaw for two seasons.
It doesn't sound that badly.....

 

[KANIDJA]

You know, after watching Big Jake playiing in Europe with all of those European players I totally agree with the trade. I like it. He was basically dominated by smaller, faster players from Europe. I his last 2 years in the league I did not see any improvemnt from this guy except when he would set the screen and run , without the ball, and then dunk it.
To keep him around only because of Shaq is I think little too much. And after all he could not stop Shaq. Nobody can.
I believed in this guy for a long time, but after watching him play for a couple yeras I don't see any improvement. Why keep him around. Lets get another big body from Europe and give him a chance. We could probably get somnone in the second round...

 

[scotsman13]

i would like to know how many of the people on this board have been playing, coaching or runnning an nba or college team for the last 15 years?

i have seen the suns pull allstars out of players no one else would ever think of. but we still question their ability to judge basketball talent? do you really think that you anyone here is a better judge of basketball skill then anyone in the suns?

also you talk about the suns saving money this year and that it is only a million or 2, like it is nothing. do you understand that is 1,ooo,ooo.oo. heck the house i live in isnt even worth 1/4 that i will be paying for that for the next 20 years.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by scotsman13

also you talk about the suns saving money this year and that it is only a million or 2, like it is nothing. do you understand that is 1,ooo,ooo.oo. heck the house i live in isnt even worth 1/4 that i will be paying for that for the next 20 years.

The NBA financial landscape is just a little bit different than the neighborhood at 44th street and Indian School, you know? How can you equate the two things? Especially when you live in Salt Lake City?

The salary cap is over 50 million dollars, 1 million is basically 2 bucks per 100--it's virtually nothing.

 

[elindholm]

but we still question their ability to judge basketball talent? do you really think that you anyone here is a better judge of basketball skill then anyone in the suns?

Whose talent are you talking about?

Jerry West thinks that Tsakalidis has value and Trybanski does not.

Bryan Colangelo thinks that Trybanski has value and Tsakalidis does not.

Most likely, one of them is closer to being correct than the other. So no matter what opinion anyone on this board expresses, it agrees with one expert and disagrees with the other.

 

[SweetD]

I like the trade and the addition of Johnson. I liked Big Jake and but he never steped up and was not going to fit into the system. Bo was a great locker guy and he was a big part of the team, I for one am glad he is gone just becouse he would create so many problems when trapping all the time and leaving his man open under the basket. I do hope Big Jake and Bo do well.

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by elindholm

Whose talent are you talking about?

Jerry West thinks that Tsakalidis has value and Trybanski does not.

Bryan Colangelo thinks that Trybanski has value and Tsakalidis does not.

[/B]

Bryan Colangelo doesn't think Trybanski has value. He hopes he does something that proves why -Jerry West- did give him a 2 year 3M$ contract. But if not it won't matter to him as this deal still works for the Suns from a money standpoint.

Jerry West probably doesn't even believe that Big Jake is valueable but he was desperate for a big body all summer long and that is the best he could get at the end of the offseason.

 

[3rdside]

in this thread?

nah just here and there.

---------------------------------------------

I can see the down side to this trade but the upside seems to be pretty good - i'm beginning to think this was actually a good move for us (heh heh):

1. Lose Jake who sucks anyway.

2. Lose Bo who is overpriced and no longer had a place in the team.

3. Gain a genuine back up point. (over priced as well but shorter contract. Also, i feel Knight fits into the rotation better than bo would have)

4. Most Importantly, save cash for next season.


We basically gained two players we don't need and one we do (assuming barbosa isn't ready) for two players we didn't need at all (save for chemistry reasons). However, we save cash for next season which enables us to use our MLE which we couldn't have used otherwise (i believe this to be the case as we will be under the cap?). The MLE is enough to get a hold of a really good player in this day and age - if we can get that good player next season then we've done well out of this trade.

 

[JJ Slim]

Originally posted by slinslin
Jerry West probably doesn't even believe that Big Jake is valueable but he was desperate for a big body all summer long and that is the best he could get at the end of the offseason.

Well lets just hope he doesn't get Executive of the Year for this move. I think there's a greater chance he does rather than Colangelo.

 

[elindholm]

However, we save cash for next season which enables us to use our MLE which we couldn't have used otherwise

Actually, I think that a team has to be over the cap to use the MLE. Whatever the rule is, though, I know that the Suns will be able to use it next season either way. They could even use it right now if they wanted to.

The question is whether they will afford to use it. My guess is that they won't, even after this trade. The money saved just isn't enough to make a difference, if you're talking about bringing in a player for even half of the MLE over a decent number of years.

 

[JJ Slim]

And what player would you bring in with the MLE that would contribute and would be able to find minutes in the rotation? We're pretty full at all positions except center.

 

[slinslin]

Foyle , Divac, Okur, Rebraca all are way way better than Big Jake and all of the are unrestricted FAs.
Magloire is a RFA.

The Suns will get 17M$ off of the cap next offseason which is why they should be able to use their exemption.

Scenario 1

Suns sign Foyle for the full MLE.
Zarko recruits Divac for the veteran minimum to replace Scott Williams.

Scenarion 2
Suns sign a center for the MLE.
Suns draft a center prospect to replace Scott Williams.

Here are some cats projected in the 2004 draft
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/papesow.asp
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/haseung-jin.asp
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/davidharrison.asp
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/robertswift.asp
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/pavelpodkolzine.asp
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/pauldavis.asp

 

[F-Dog]

Adonal Foyle, C, Golden State.

If the Suns can afford to use the MLE next season, I don't see why they can't afford to sign a long-term contract using the MLE. It's not like Bo's going back on the cap in 2006.

 

[slinslin]

I just looked up the boxscores of last season.

Brevin Knight started in one game against the Suns played 33 minutes dished out 11 assists plus 5 steals and 9 points.

That was the only loss the Suns had against the Grizz.

In another game he came off of the bench for 8 points 6 assists 2 steals and 2 rebounds in 17 minutes.

Trybanski and Archibald didn't play in any of the games. Knight twice didn't play.

 

[elindholm]

Ah, I feel better now. Since Knight is off the Grizzlies, the Suns will be able to do better against them this season.

Shrewd move!

 

[slinslin]

Yup I can't wait to see Big Jake or Bo trying to stop Amare.

 

[slinslin]

From the ESPN board

According to Gambo, Suns sources have told him that Brevin Knight probably won't be staying with the team, and that they could be making calls within the next couple of days.

Gambo said that they can trade Brevin Knight right now in a one-for-one trade, but would have to wait for 60 days before they could trade him in a multi-player deal.

Gambo said that the Suns want Barbosa to get most of the backup pg minutes.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by elindholm
Ah, I feel better now. Since Knight is off the Grizzlies, the Suns will be able to do better against them this season.

Shrewd move!

LOL! That could be 4 wins right there.

Originally posted by slinslin
Yup I can't wait to see Big Jake or Bo trying to stop Amare.

Big Jake against Amare Stoudemire would be hysterical, but I'll bet Bo outlaw could give him some trouble.

Joe Mama

 

[Joe Mama]

According to Gambo, Suns sources have told him that Brevin Knight probably won't be staying with the team, and that they could be making calls within the next couple of days.

Gambo said that they can trade Brevin Knight right now in a one-for-one trade, but would have to wait for 60 days before they could trade him in a multi-player deal.

Gambo said that the Suns want Barbosa to get most of the backup pg minutes.

Peter V (Garden Grove): I'm a big Suns fan, even though I live in the core of Lakers world. My question is what kind of roles will Barbosa and Cabarkapa play in the big picture for the Phoenix Suns? Thank you for your time

Bryan Colangelo: It's likely that Zarko will make an immediate impact in that his versatility, length and ability fits our team. He is not only an outside threat but someone who can move the basketball up the floor. Physically he'll struggle his first few years, but what he lacks in strength he picks up in skill. We think he will get minutes early in the rotation. Leandro, on the other hand, comes in with less professional experience but talent enough to prompt his draft selection. We feel that from a conditioning standpoint and knowledge of the game standpoint Leandro has more to accomplish before making a great impact.

It certainly seems to contradict what Gambo is saying. It may be true that they are planning on moving Brevin Knight (although I doubt it), but Barbosa is not ready to be a key contributor.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

You wonder if there even are any realistic possibilities to trade Brevin straight up for just one other player.

Are they allowed to include picks or anything like that in such a deal?

And the player would have to be pretty good that they get for Knights contract because otherwise the Suns would certainly prefer to use their MLE next offseason.


Nazr Mohammed would work straight up for Knight.
Jahidi White would work straight up for Knight.

But that is almost it. I don't think there are any better realistic players that could be had.

And I doubt that Nazr or Jahidi would make such a difference that it wouldn't be worth it to just let Knights contract expire.


If any deal is happening probably in december when the Suns would be able to trade Knight in a multi-player trade. But I just don't see how that is likely unless they made the trade because they think that Knight is a better trade comodity than Outlaw which he probably is because of his contract.

 

[capologist]

Originally posted by JJ Slim
Well lets just hope he doesn't get Executive of the Year for this move. I think there's a greater chance he does rather than Colangelo.

Yeah, ’cause the NBA has a strict limit — no more than four Executive of the Year awards per family. The Colangelos have used up their quota.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by capologist
Yeah, ’cause the NBA has a strict limit — no more than four Executive of the Year awards per family. The Colangelos have used up their quota.

Well, well, well, look who decides to grace us with his presence! What's up Tony? How's your stay over at phxsuns.net working out?