Channel 10 news... trade?

[sly fly]

The guys who are bashing this trade need to get one thing straight:

THIS IS A BUSINESS.

The Colangelos do not want to be stifled the by the luxury tax. Especially, when it's a dollar-dollar match.

This move was all about creating financial flexibility down the road.

Colangelo is feeling the heat in regards to trimming payroll for the Diamondbacks. The free spending days are over.

- Big Jake was likely to be traded anyway. He DOES NOT fit with this athletic group.

- Brevin Knight, if healthy, is MORE than servicable. Especially, if Marbs goes down.

- Trybanski and Archibald won't even see the court.

- Bo Outlaw is a journeyman. Nothing more... nothing less. Too many holes in his game to make a DIFFERENCE night in and night out.

- The Suns are only 2 players away from moving to the next level. Creating financial flexibility possibly gives them this chance.

- You build around: Amare, Marion, Marbs. The rest are role players.

 

[slinslin]

Joe Johnson is also our future starting SG for years to come.

Zarko could end up being our center fo years to come.

That's the 5 players you build around. You might even throw in Voshkul and Barbosa in that category as the core of this team.

But the rest like Jacobsen, Williams, Outlaw, Tsakalidis, Googs they were always replaceable.
They might want to keep Penny around because he is a veteran player and made solid contributions.

 

[elindholm]

So, those of you who like the trade, can you clarify something?

Are the Suns saving money, or preparing to add role players? Because you can't have it both ways. The "big savings" of this trade may amount to as little as $3.6 million in one season, depending on what happens with the luxury tax. Which useful role players are going to come in for $3.6 million total over the length of the contract?

And if the answer is, "none," then this is just a cost-cutting move, nothing more, and a small one at that.

 

[SirStefan32]

I really think there is another trade waiting to happen.

 

[slinslin]

They can do both at the same time .

They don't have to spend all the money they saved to add some players in the future.

 

[SirStefan32]

We want Vlad Stephania!!!!!!!!!!

That kid rebounds like crazy, fight for every single rebound and loose ball, he can post up, and has a beautifull 15- 18 foot jumper.

 

[slinslin]

I don't want Stepania unless he wants a 1-year deal.

Just because you save some money now doesn't mean you should go out there and spend it right away when it won't even make much of a difference.

I rather wait until next offseason to go out there shopping with the money we have or until a good trade comes up.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
I really think there is another trade waiting to happen.

I thought the same thing when I heard the trade was final.


I am disappointed to lose big Jake but now I don't have to worry if he will finally live up to his potential. I like Outlaw but he is a role player, and an expensive one.
The salary cap and luxary tax is a hard reality and tough decisions have to be made I guess.

I am not impressed with anything we received from Memphis.

Obivously Barbosa has a ways to go before he is ready.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I am one of the most optimistic Suns fans around, but I am having great difficulty looking positively at this trade.

I am not bothered by trading Bo. With the addition of Zarko, and the health of Googs, Bo was the odd man out. It only makes sense that they trade him and move his contract.

I am quite disturbed that they had to throw Big Jake in to do it. When healthy, he is a defensive force in the middle.

I am holding out hope that there is more to this than just the cap. If it is just the cap, Big Jake is a huge sacrifice for a team that has not had a true quality starting center since Neal Walk.

Here's what I am hoping.

Zarko is so much better than advertized that he will be our starter.

Why do we need Knight if we have Penny?

Is there a trade for Penny in the works, or a sign and trade? Could there be another deal that moves Googs or Knight?

Maybe there will be a FA signing with someone that is left. Stepania for a one year deal?

If this trade is all there is, I am quite disappointed.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by ...tTs*...
Chaplin, I don't want to upset you but, no offence, many of your posts convey the exact feeling your getting upset at slin slin for. It seems a touch hypocritical to me. When slinslin and hcsilla get pis*ed at ya (and i'm sure most everyone else has seen you guys go at it sometimes) then this is the reason. You tend to be a bit a-holeish in your opinion as well sometimes.

In this thread?

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by elindholm
So, those of you who like the trade, can you clarify something?

Are the Suns saving money, or preparing to add role players? Because you can't have it both ways. The "big savings" of this trade may amount to as little as $3.6 million in one season, depending on what happens with the luxury tax. Which useful role players are going to come in for $3.6 million total over the length of the contract?

And if the answer is, "none," then this is just a cost-cutting move, nothing more, and a small one at that.

I think they're preparing to add a player. Why? Because they gave up on Big Jake, which means that there's an immediate need at center. That need probably won't be filled in the draft because good centers aren't available where the Suns pick, and a project won't be ready when the Suns need him.

If the Suns claim that Trybanski or Archibald is the answer, then I'll agree that this is a cost-cutting move.

If the C's felt they couldn't afford to add an MLE contract while Penny's and Bo's contracts are on the books, they just got rid their entire problem. If their goal is to get under the cap, they still can't afford to take on another contract.

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by elindholm
So, those of you who like the trade, can you clarify something?

Are the Suns saving money, or preparing to add role players? Because you can't have it both ways. The "big savings" of this trade may amount to as little as $3.6 million in one season, depending on what happens with the luxury tax. Which useful role players are going to come in for $3.6 million total over the length of the contract?

And if the answer is, "none," then this is just a cost-cutting move, nothing more, and a small one at that.

I believe that BC just wants to have the flexibility to sign or sign/trade someone that may be the final piece to the puzzle.

It's obvious management was less than enamored with the progress of Big Jake. So, they cut their losses before he got hurt again.

Who are possible free agents next year?

Just from hearing about Zarko, I think PHX may have found a running mate for Amare. Geez, both these guys are close to 6'10" and run the floor like gazelles.

If Zarko pans out, this trade will look even better after the season. (Assuming PHX uses the money to get a bona-fide inside prresence/shot blocker).

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
We want Vlad Stephania!!!!!!!!!!

That kid rebounds like crazy, fight for every single rebound and loose ball, he can post up, and has a beautifull 15- 18 foot jumper.

Beatiful J of Stepania?
I do not think that he had a J at all.

If he would be that good why Riley benched him and putted Grant at C and Malik Allen at PF?

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by SirChaz


Obivously Barbosa has a ways to go before he is ready.

I wouldn't take that for granted.

I doubt that the reason this deal was made was Barbosa not being ready or anything.

They got Knight because he has an expiring contract. The fact that he is one of the better backup PGs in the league is just a bonus.

You certainly can't expect a rookie PG to step in and run the team well especially if he is still learning english.
So Knight is a good insurance for the Suns for the time that Barbosa needs to get comfortable or if we are biten by the injury bug.

Barbosa's playing time would have been limited anyway because Marbury will play close to 40mpg and the other 8 mpg might be covered up by Johnson and Penny.

 

[Chaplin]

Look, let's get something straight to all you trade supporters that have decided to lecture to those of us that don't like the trade.

One, I hate losing Bo because I really like the guy. Chemistry was a huge part of our success last year, and Bo was at the top of the pyramid of that.

You guys complain and complain about small ball, yet you have no problem with this trade which makes small ball even more probable.

In reality, I'm not too concerned basketball-wise about who we lost. What I AM concerned about is what we got in return. THAT is what ticks me off. Brevin Knight is a decent backup, but he still is injury-prone and really, Penny and JJ could always handle backup PG duties, if FJ could do the rotation right.

 

[scotsman13]

elindholm, the suns are cutting money for this season and next year they will have more money to go out and sign free agents.

where do you get this 3.6 over the length of the contract? it is how much money the suns have to spend that year not over the total contract.

you know the think that has shocked me the most about this whole train is how many people seem to think that a million dollards is nothing. is because the big sports teams spend millions in saleries doesnt mean they can afford to give an extra million or so dollars away on a player that has done nothing. big jake had games over the summer player where he grabbed 3 count them 3 rebounds in over 30 mins of play. hey guys this is a 7'2" 280 player who if he puts his hands up in the air around the basket should get more then 3 rebounds. remember what charles barkley said about rebounding it is all about effort. marion does it, amare does it. jason kidd does it. they all play with effort while big jake doesnt go out and with emotion and work hard every time he is on the floor. he doesnt give the game all the effort that he should and that is why he is gone.

 

[Chaplin]

In the NBA, a million dollars IS nothing. The low-level exception is actually more than a million dollars. Chris Dudley made a million bucks last season. That tells you how much worth 1 million bucks has in the NBA.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Look, let's get something straight to all you trade supporters that have decided to lecture to those of us that don't like the trade.

One, I hate losing Bo because I really like the guy. Chemistry was a huge part of our success last year, and Bo was at the top of the pyramid of that.

You guys complain and complain about small ball, yet you have no problem with this trade which makes small ball even more probable.

In reality, I'm not too concerned basketball-wise about who we lost. What I AM concerned about is what we got in return. THAT is what ticks me off. Brevin Knight is a decent backup, but he still is injury-prone and really, Penny and JJ could always handle backup PG duties, if FJ could do the rotation right.

I agree Chap.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
I thought it was $51 million. Am I overlooking someone?

Whoops, yes I am. I'm overlooking Joe Johnson. I always forget that HoopsHype doesn't include team options in its total.

$53 million is correct, sorry.

I think that 51 mil. is correct.
Without JJ their team pay-roll in 2004 is 47.6 mil.With JJ it's 50 mil.
Add a 2004 1st rounder and it's 51 mil.

Still, the savings is only $3.6 million, because the Suns will still have to pay Trybanski.

Tsakalidis' qualifying offer will be 2.3 mil.
Outlaw's next season' salary is 5.3 mil.
The total is 7.6 mil.

Trybanski's salary is 1.8 mil

The savings is 5.8 mil. for the next season.


The savings is 1 mil. for this season which partially can be used on Dermarr Johnson's vet min. contract.

 

[slinslin]

The Suns are saving 2M$ this season since they would definately be above the luxury tax and pay twice as much.

That does make a difference even in the NBA. And they will save 3.5M$ next season at least. If they are over the luxury tax next season it will be even more.

We are talking about saving 5.5M$ that we spend for players that were losing their role on this team and had no future with this team.

Big Jake didn't have a future. No way the Suns would have rather resigned him after next season than shopping for a different big man.

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by Chaplin

You guys complain and complain about small ball, yet you have no problem with this trade which makes small ball even more probable.

Bo Outlaw was a big part of small ball playing with no real position at only 6'7.

Big Jake is way too slow and raw to play in any lineup for the Suns anyway and didn't contribute much last season anyway so no real loss there.

Bo Outlaw will be more than replaced by Cabarkapa who is much bigger than him.

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by Chaplin
You guys complain and complain about small ball, yet you have no problem with this trade which makes small ball even more probable.

I disagree.

As long as Big Jake is the starting center, the team will be looking to find ways to keep him off of the court. At the same time, they won't be desperate to pick up another center because that spot on the depth chart is filled.

This trade leads to a lot of small ball in the short term, which means that the Suns are going to be motivated to sign a good center in the next year or so.

 

[elindholm]

scottsman13:

where do you get this 3.6 over the length of the contract? it is how much money the suns have to spend that year not over the total contract.

The Suns "can" spend as much money as they want. They have the full MLE still available. If they felt like it, they could go sign a player for six years starting at $4.5 million right now.

If the point of this trade was to save money to spend on another player, then the only "gain" is the amount of money saved in the trade. That's apparently around $5 million (not $3.6 million as I said before), if it's true that Archibald can be cut. So if the Suns sign a FA who will make more than $5 million over the entire length of his contract, they haven't saved any money.

hcsilla:

Tsakalidis' qualifying offer will be 2.3 mil.
Outlaw's next season' salary is 5.3 mil.
The total is 7.6 mil.

If the Suns, after 82 more games, decided that they still weren't convinced by Tsakalidis, they could let him go then. So it doesn't make any sense to count his qualifying offer. The Suns would pay that only if they thought he had become a real player, in which case it would be money well spent. If they think Tsakalidis is a bust, they weren't going to spend that money next year anyway.

The savings next year is $3.6 million, as I said before. Apparently the savings this year is potentially a million or more, if Archibald's contract is not guaranteed.

F-Dog:

This trade leads to a lot of small ball in the short term, which means that the Suns are going to be motivated to sign a good center in the next year or so.

We'll believe that when we see it. The Suns should have been "motivated" to sign a good center for as long as any of us can remember, and it hasn't happened yet. Of course, finding a good center to sign is a lot easier said than done, so the Suns do have an excuse. Still, that's all the more reason not to give centers away -- even if all they'll amount to is role-playing backups.

 

[elindholm]

I think that 51 mil. is correct.
Without JJ their team pay-roll in 2004 is 47.6 mil.With JJ it's 50 mil.
Add a 2004 1st rounder and it's 51 mil.

Don't forget Voskuhl's salary, which HoopsHype is still not displaying.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm

If the Suns, after 82 more games, decided that they still weren't convinced by Tsakalidis, they could let him go then.

So your counter offer is let Tsakalidis to go AND keep Outlaw.

If that would have been Suns' plan then I'm really that they mage the Knight-trade.