CHI 24 ARI 23 Thoughts and 53 Update

Mitch

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The same formula that spawned last year's 7-8-1 record was on full display for the Cardinals last night. The Bears were the faster and hungrier team, which was particularly disappointing considering this was an Arizona home game.

It seemed like a fitting culmination of a tumultuous week of practices in which WRs were called out for no longer being legitimate NFL caliber players and in which the Cardinals' players were expressing how bored they were in their fourth week of camp.

In this game, the Cardinals, for the most part played like they were bored.

Many will say, like last year, that pre-season games are meaningless and that everything is so vanilla, so it really doesn't matter.

Yet, with the Cardinals, their weaknesses have little to nothing to do with vanilla schemes and everything to do with basic football principles and execution.

Last night was yet another chapter of:

* special teams ineptitude and game changing gaffes
* putrid tackling
* losing the battle at the line of scrimmage on both sides
* loss of contain on the edge (is this ever coached?)
* wide open receivers off bootlegs --- every time
* wide open receivers on the goal line --- every time (which was supposedly another point of coaching emphasis this past week, getting the goal-line defense in sync, assignment-wise)

Despite the overall ennui, passivity and lethargy --- some players came up big:

QB Blaine Gabbert --- when one watches the way in which Gabbert throws the football and runs with the football, he is far superior in every shape and form than Drew Stanton. Stanton was right back to being the erratic, harried QB he has been for the past few years, routinely missing his targets on wide or high throws. His mechanics (feet, arm **** and high release point) remain a huge issue. Gabbert, on the other hand, has a quick and smooth release and he is throwing frozen ropes with accuracy.

WR Chris Hubert --- for the past two weeks it has been clear that the Cardinals' QB are often targeting Hubert, because as BA has been saying he is often "wide-ass open." Hubert was up to the task this week, showing very good acceleration and softer hands.

WR Jeremy Ross --- he's the one slot WR/flanker who has lower body strength and very good balance. Plus he is an asset in the return game. His TD was a thing of beauty as Gabbert threw a dart into the exact window opposite the CB and Ross timed his jump perfectly and looked the ball right into the triangle, while keeping his feet in bounds.

TE Jermaine Gresham --- is developing into a go-to TE in the red zone.

TE Ifeanyi Momah --- showed his value as a receiver when he made a nifty catch in traffic and then dragged tacklers 5 yards for a first down.

G Tony Bergstrom --- watched him more than usual this game and he is playing very efficiently with very good technique.

T John Wetzel --- playing with superb technique, strength and balance.

DT Frostee Rucker --- it was great to see Rucker look like the Frostee of old, slithering off blocks to make plays and chasing plays to the sideline.

DT Robert Nkemdiche --- another solid performance on what was a supper night for the Cardinals' d-linemen.

OLB Alex Bazzie --- showed edge quickness.

OLB Kareem Martin --- showed edge strength and has been one of the best surprises of camp, especially with Jarvis Jones injured.

CB Justin Bethel --- played with good leverage and confidence.

CB Brandon Williams --- blanket coverage and is seeing the ball a little better.

S Tyrann Mathieu --- turned the momentum of the game around with his nifty Badger-like interception.

S Tyvon Branch --- turned in his best performance ---was all over the field making tackles and plays --- was about the only one in the first quarter, but he kept on coming and never backed down.

P Matt Wile --- good hang time and distance

Updated 53:

QB (3): Palmer, Gabbert, Stanton

* With 2 games left I'd like to see Gabbert get a few series with the number ones.

RB (4): D. Johnson, K. Williams, C. Johnson, Penny

* I want to see K. Williams play early on as we did in game 1. Chris Johnson made a good block in pass pro, but after that kept releasing as a safety value when he was needed in protection. Did not run the ball with any real burst.

* Penny makes it over Ellington because of STs. Penny was good again on STs and made a good, hard stop on a punt return. Plus, he is a key blocker on punts.

WR (6): Fitzgerald, Jaron Brown, Nelson, John Brown, C. Williams, Ross

* With John Brown injured, it would be great to find a way to keep Chris Hubert as well. Ross' value on STs and savviness as a veteran WR gives him the slight edge on Brittan Golden. But that competition should go down to the wire.

TE (3): Gresham, Niklas, Momah

* All three are playing solid. Hakeem Valles plays a lot on STs, but should start the year on the PS.

OL (9): Humphries, Iupati, Shipley, Boehm, Veldheer, Wetzel, Toner, D. Johnson, Holden

* Tony Bergstrom is deserving of a roster spot, but can the Cardinals really afford to pull the plug on 4th and 5th round picks (Dorian Johnson and Will Holden) so quickly? With Wentzel and Toner being so versatile, the Cardinals can be patient with the rookies.

DL (7): Rucker, Peters, Mauro, Nkemdiche, Gunter, Pierre, X. Williams

* This unit has flashed but been very inconsistent. It would be wise, imo, to add another player to this mix and start Xavier Williams on the PS.

ILB (5): Dansby, Bucannon, Reddick, Bynes, Wright

* It would be great to move reduce to the edge where he belongs, but injuries to Dansby, Bucannon and Byners (and Wheeler) are making this impossible.

OLB (4): Golden, C. Jones, Martin, Bazzie

* It's looking like Jarvis Jones is going to have to start the year on the IR. This unit should be upgraded when Reddick is used on the edge.

CB (4): Peterson, Bethel, B. Williams, T. Williams

* Hard to belive Tramon Williams dropped that interception. But he put a lick on Cohen, which was long overdue.

S (5): Mathieu, Bethea, Branch, Baker, Miller

* Rudy Ford has been injured and Harlan Miller made a couple of key tackles last night.

Sticking Point:

BA keeps telling Carson Palmer that he has to get rid of the ball faster. But here's the problem...without Smoke in the lineup, the Cardinals' WRs are not getting quick separation. Throwing the ball too quickly is how CP makes his biggest mistakes...like the post he threw into the end zone last night that should have been intercepted. Carson Palmer needs time for plays to develop...but his lack of mobility and, last night his under-performaing offensive line made that very difficult. Something has to give here. BA needs to take more measures to maximize Carson's protection. Keep the RB in. Chip the edges. Otherwise, the offense under Palmer will continue to stall and be prone to turnovers made in haste.
 

DVontel

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I'd add Pierre Olsen to the players that have came up big. Made a few TFL while constantly giving the blocker fits. Imo he's been the 2nd best DLineman after Nkemdiche this preseason so far.
 

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Mitch, as an aside, in another thread you listed Penny as a riser, and based on his rushing stats, I questioned your call. But after watching the 'tape' I definitely agree with you. I was surprised by his 'hands' and realize that he is our only big back reserve.

Now to your '53':
1. If we go with two QB's, I hope it's BG. He's younger, more athletic, and has more upside. In fact, I hope we do go with two.

2. RB's and TE's-I agree.

3. OL-Of our two draftees, I thought Holden played better. And through three games, D. Johnson, hasn't shown me much, and I'd try to put him on the PS. Bergstrom has looked okay, and I'd keep him if we go with nine, rather than eight OL.

4. WR-Granted we need John Brown, but if we go with six WR's, I hope one is Jeremy Ross. Good size and good hands. JJ Nelson, on the field, has been a disappointment, but at least he's been on the field.

On Defense a lot of last night's problems had to do with our ILB's. When (and if) we get Dansby and Buccanon back, I believe we'll look a lot better.

1. DL-Agree.

2. ILB-Agree, but have my fingers crossed that Wright only has to play ST's.

3. OLB-Not sure between Bazzie and Capi. Two games to go.

4. CB-Agree.

5. S-I know he's been hurt, but Ford looks better to me than Miller.
 

DeAnna

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I agree about Gabbert. Did Stanton even complete a pass last night? Seems like every time I looked up, it was wide right, wide left, too high, etc.
 
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Mitch

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Mitch, as an aside, in another thread you listed Penny as a riser, and based on his rushing stats, I questioned your call. But after watching the 'tape' I definitely agree with you. I was surprised by his 'hands' and realize that he is our only big back reserve.

Now to your '53':
1. If we go with two QB's, I hope it's BG. He's younger, more athletic, and has more upside. In fact, I hope we do go with two.

2. RB's and TE's-I agree.

3. OL-Of our two draftees, I thought Holden played better. And through three games, D. Johnson, hasn't shown me much, and I'd try to put him on the PS. Bergstrom has looked okay, and I'd keep him if we go with nine, rather than eight OL.

4. WR-Granted we need John Brown, but if we go with six WR's, I hope one is Jeremy Ross. Good size and good hands. JJ Nelson, on the field, has been a disappointment, but at least he's been on the field.

On Defense a lot of last night's problems had to do with our ILB's. When (and if) we get Dansby and Buccanon back, I believe we'll look a lot better.

1. DL-Agree.

2. ILB-Agree, but have my fingers crossed that Wright only has to play ST's.

3. OLB-Not sure between Bazzie and Capi. Two games to go.

4. CB-Agree.

5. S-I know he's been hurt, but Ford looks better to me than Miller.

You and I are thinking very much alike, Garth. I am predicting what the Cardinals will do, but if it were up to me, I would try to trade Stanton (last night's tape didn't help that cause) or let him go. For now, I would keep WR Chris Hubert in Stanton's place, because of the uncertainty regarding John Brown's health and we need a speed element on this offense.

We agree on Ross. I love Brittan Golden's attitude and passion, but I think Ross is the better WR and PR (if and when needed), although Golden is the better gunner on punt and kickoff coverage.

I am not sure who the better player is between Bazzie and Capi. I think Bazzie is quicker, but Capi is stronger.

I also think that Rudy Ford, because of his speed and range is more talented than Harlan Miller. But, Miller is going to make his case, as he did last night. The problem with Miller at FS is that he because he lacks speed he lines up way too deep. Good teams will exploit that, left and right.
 

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Many will say, like last year, that pre-season games are meaningless and that everything is so vanilla, so it really doesn't matter.

Yet, with the Cardinals, their weaknesses have little to nothing to do with vanilla schemes and everything to do with basic football principles and execution.

Agree - I know it's only pre season but Im a bit concerned that the "poo poohing" has begun again. This was supposed to be a hungrier team that wasn't going to take their talent for granted like they did last year.
 

Cardiac

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QB - Stanton did have a lousy outing last night. Gabbert has a strong arm and is very mobile but we are seeing why he hasn't been winning in the NFL. The positive is that I believe that BA and Moore can fix him to be at least a very good back up QB.

RB - Chris Johnson does look like he has lost a step or two but he can still play the game well. K. Williams looks to have nailed down the returner positions at least until Logan comes back. Juke is a luxury that we can't afford at this time IMO.

WR - I'm going to miss whoever is cut, be it Hubert, Ross and or Golden.

TE - I like the group and agree we only keep 3.

OL - Not a good outing for the group but I don't watch enough of trench play on O to give a valid opinion.

DL - I agree this group had a very good outing. 90 still has ball awareness issues but he is a beast.

ILB - Reddick had a bad game IMO. Had trouble getting off blocks and was taking the wrong gap or angle most of the time. Scooby is still a bit slow. I think this is why the D struggled so much this game, the ILBers were horrible.

OLB - Martin is making this team and going to contribute nicely.

CB - B. Williams looked great and Bethel also had a great game. Very encouraging but I'll also allow that the Bears WR's are crappy.

S - HB is back baby!!!!!!! Branch had probably his best game as a Card. Bethea will be fine. I hope Ford gets healthy soon so he can make the squad because we need his speed. Baker still needs some seasoning but one can see his speed and talent. Did everyone see the telecast and how Wolf and Pasch went on and on about how Budda got to an upright position from his back without using his arms. It was an incredible sight.
 

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Mitch, nice summary and well written with great detail. I appreciate it.

I'm a little slow, but I still can't shake that final play and throw. It physically hurts seeing what could have been an awesome ending. OK. I'll let it go :)

We clearly have work to do but I have to remind myself this is preseason. This is the time to see our areas of focus for improvement and who will make the roster. Training camp is great, but it's when we're in the ring with the true opponent, we see our strengths and definitely challenges.

I don't know about you, I sure miss Campbell.

On another note, I'm seeing tickets for sale via Groupon. I have no idea of seat location, but could be a nice discount. My company has a suite that I host customers in periodically so I'm Blessed to go to several games, but equally happy to watch in my living room.
 

az jam

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Cards didn't look good. Training camp is just to long with that worthless Hall of Fame game that the Cards had to play.
Hard to get a feel for the offense with DJ and Fitz hardly playing.
Sure like Gabbert over Stanton but BA will keep Stanton as the prime backup unless he gets hurt. That is set in stone.
Sorry and I hope I am wrong but the Cards look like a .500 club to me. 8 & 8 is my prediction.
 
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Mitch

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QB - Stanton did have a lousy outing last night. Gabbert has a strong arm and is very mobile but we are seeing why he hasn't been winning in the NFL. The positive is that I believe that BA and Moore can fix him to be at least a very good back up QB.

RB - Chris Johnson does look like he has lost a step or two but he can still play the game well. K. Williams looks to have nailed down the returner positions at least until Logan comes back. Juke is a luxury that we can't afford at this time IMO.

WR - I'm going to miss whoever is cut, be it Hubert, Ross and or Golden.

TE - I like the group and agree we only keep 3.

OL - Not a good outing for the group but I don't watch enough of trench play on O to give a valid opinion.

DL - I agree this group had a very good outing. 90 still has ball awareness issues but he is a beast.

ILB - Reddick had a bad game IMO. Had trouble getting off blocks and was taking the wrong gap or angle most of the time. Scooby is still a bit slow. I think this is why the D struggled so much this game, the ILBers were horrible.

OLB - Martin is making this team and going to contribute nicely.

CB - B. Williams looked great and Bethel also had a great game. Very encouraging but I'll also allow that the Bears WR's are crappy.

S - HB is back baby!!!!!!! Branch had probably his best game as a Card. Bethea will be fine. I hope Ford gets healthy soon so he can make the squad because we need his speed. Baker still needs some seasoning but one can see his speed and talent. Did everyone see the telecast and how Wolf and Pasch went on and on about how Budda got to an upright position from his back without using his arms. It was an incredible sight.

Cardiac, when you said "we are seeing why Gabbert hasn't been winning in the NFL," what did you mean? To me, he has looked better in our offense than he ever has in JAX or SF. I thought he played great down the stretch last night and sure the last play was botched but I think he was sure that Ross was going to run the inside rub route...which is a play that BA often calls in 2 point t situations.

Gabbert's TD to Ross on the previous play was a thing of beauty, as he zipped ti to the precise spot where only Ross could catch the ball. That's as nifty a pass I have ever seen him make, which tells me he is very capable of winning, given the right coaching.
 

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Mitch, that was as astute a game review as I have seen in a long while. I want to thank you for concentrating on the final 53, because the disjointed play was embarrassing and sickening for me to watch.

I believe your assessment of Carson Palmer is smack on---------and the lack of concentration or apparent interest was almost more than Palmer could deal with. He took two hits that were totally unnecessary AND potentially harmful. With the lack of real effort by the OL, I cringed with nearly every pass play until he was out of the game.

With Stanton-------I wholeheartedly agree. While he was superb last week, this week he returned to the sporadic and inept backup that we see about half the time from him. Stanton clearly has played exactly like this since he joined our roster, and has NOT shown any real improvement from this pattern in his entire tenure here.

Gabbert, on the other hand, once again displayed the quick thinking, and quick feet, and the laser arm that we have been hunting for in a back-up QB in what seems like forever. Curt Warner is the only other back-up QB that I have seen come in here and take charge of our huddle and roster, and with such ease as Gabbert has. Let us not forget that Warner was not nearly so nimble as Gabbert is----and that bodes well for us I'm my opinion.

I am even more amazed that, for a guy who has never had an OC for more than one season in his career, Gabbert has shown an almost uncanny ability to be in tune with our OC already. To have taken to the huddle and the roster like he has in such scant playing time, it is almost amazing how closely joined to our playbook and our OC as Gabbert is. He has shown a great sense of what he has needed to do each time he has been put in charge or our offensive scheme thus far. His clock management and his ability to quickly see what is needed as he goes thru his reads has almost been uncanny. I am very impressed with his laser-like arm and his accuracy, even while on the move. His quick feet and ability to run with decisive purpose has also been surprising to me. In my opinion, Blaine Gabbert has already shown that he is CLEARLY the logical back-up to CP this season, and has the upside of possibly becoming even more prolific as he learns our system, and our play book, and becomes even more acquainted with our OC. I can actually see him as being our logical QBOF if he continues to perform as he already has shown he can. His game and time management have been unbelievably astute in each of his appearances thus far------and he has squeezed more positive play out of his playing time than anyone I have seen in AGES for the big Red. I will say it right now, (WE MAY HAVE FOUND OUR QBOF) ! ! ! ! !
 

Cbus cardsfan

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I think pre-season is absolutely meaningless. That being said, I have been very impressed with Gabbert. His pocket awareness, accuracy, and velocity have been very impressive.

I like him to be kept as 3rd string and develop/learn the system for a year. I'm fine with Stanton as the #2.

As for the Cards looking lethargic, who cares? They're professional athletes and all they're worried about is being ready to go game 1.
 

Cardiac

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Cardiac, when you said "we are seeing why Gabbert hasn't been winning in the NFL," what did you mean? To me, he has looked better in our offense than he ever has in JAX or SF. I thought he played great down the stretch last night and sure the last play was botched but I think he was sure that Ross was going to run the inside rub route...which is a play that BA often calls in 2 point t situations.

Gabbert's TD to Ross on the previous play was a thing of beauty, as he zipped ti to the precise spot where only Ross could catch the ball. That's as nifty a pass I have ever seen him make, which tells me he is very capable of winning, given the right coaching.

No doubt Gabbert made some great throws and had the nice TD run. He still looks a bit confused and got rattled in the pocket a couple of times. As I posted I can see BA and Moore fixing him to be at least a quality back up QB.

To phrase it better, I saw flashes of the old Gabbert during the game. Once he learns BA's offense completely I think he will be far better than Stanton so this will be Stanton's last year as a Card IMO.
 

WildBB

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Solid rundown Mitch. Keep 2 QB's. Stanton isn't going to lead us into the playoffs if it comes down to that. Make it a real competition next week.
 

JeffGollin

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I'm not real comfortable adding a 155 lb wideout to an already fragile and smallish WR group.

Don't be surprised, therefore, if Huber is kept instead of either Ellington or K Williams and used to return KO's and punts.
 

JeffGollin

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I'm not real comfortable adding a 155 lb wideout to an already fragile and smallish WR group.

Don't be surprised, therefore, if Huber is kept instead of either Ellington or K Williams and used to return KO's and punts.

As for Stanton - He had a bad hair day and quite possibly lost the #2 job to Gabbert. But I still think Stanton is worth keeping for QB depth. The trade off between a depth-guy at another position vs. a backup QB who may have just had one really bad outing - favors the QB.
 

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As for the last play of the game, the TV guys weren't sure if it was a missed pass by BG or a missed read by JR. However, the way BA was talking to BG after the pass, I'm thinking it was a missed pass.
 

NeverSayDieFan

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Hey, Mitch. Good write up, bud. I'm with Football Karma. NO MAJOR INJURIES! The pre-season is really hard to dissect. It often seems like an old prospector looking for a piece of gold in his sifting tray. OH! That'a "keeper!(ie; Good play. etc.) Every season "evolves" and this one will be no different. We are strong in some areas and weak in others. BUT...I'm going to harp on this one repeatedly. You CANNOT win in the NFL without a reliable kicker! PERIOD! ...And we now have one in Phil Dawson. Any St. Louis old-timers here remember the incredible value game-in and game-out of Jim Bakken?

A GREAT SUNDAY to all!

Mark in SC :)
 

Jay Cardinal

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Spot on Mitch. I finally got to watch an entire preseason game.

I really liked Brandon Williams technique yesterday. Cautiously optimistic, as it is obvious the guy has physical ability.

Also Jeremy Ross looks tough enough to play the slot receiver. I woul love to find a way to keep him. Same with Hubert and I really think the two receivers complement each other well.

Gabbert has made it clear he is a far superior player to Stanton. It is up to the coach if he evaluates based on talent or loyalty. Unfortunately after the Amos Jones disaster last year, I think it is not a given Gabbert wins the job.

Kareem Martin was exceptional last night. It looks to me like he needs to play with his hand down in Campbell's previous role. If he plays like he did last night, Cards will have a Pro Bowl D lineman on our hands.


Reddick is a physical beast, but the ILB role is a little too much for him right now. I think he needs to play as a pass rush specialist until he learns more. At this point it is obvious he has never played inside. He just doesn't have a feel for the plays developing and we can't leave him on the field in the regular season to learn.
 
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Mitch

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Spot on Mitch. I finally got to watch an entire preseason game.

I really liked Brandon Williams technique yesterday. Cautiously optimistic, as it is obvious the guy has physical ability.

Also Jeremy Ross looks tough enough to play the slot receiver. I woul love to find a way to keep him. Same with Hubert and I really think the two receivers complement each other well.

Gabbert has made it clear he is a far superior player to Stanton. It is up to the coach if he evaluates based on talent or loyalty. Unfortunately after the Amos Jones disaster last year, I think it is not a given Gabbert wins the job.

Kareem Martin was exceptional last night. It looks to me like he needs to play with his hand down in Campbell's previous role. If he plays like he did last night, Cards will have a Pro Bowl D lineman on our hands.


Reddick is a physical beast, but the ILB role is a little too much for him right now. I think he needs to play as a pass rush specialist until he learns more. At this point it is obvious he has never played inside. He just doesn't have a feel for the plays developing and we can't leave him on the field in the regular season to learn.

Excellent post, Jay Cardinal. We need speed on the edge and Haason Reddick is just what we need.
 

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Good write up Mitch. I am liking what I've seen from Wetzel. Having three solid tackles on the team is almost unheard of. Plus Bergstrom has played well at guard. I'm disappointed with how D Johnson has played thus far. I really expected him to be much better. I don't expect anything from Holden other than being cut.

It looks like Reddick won't be ready this year as an inside linebacker but he should be fine as a pass rusher coming off the edge. I know it's only preseason but I was impressed with how Brandon Williams played against the Bears.

I would sign the best WR, DL and CB after all the cuts are made. I still think we are weak in those areas.
 

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