Chiefs may try to trade for Arizona running back Jones

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by pinnacle
alphaman: are you in the KC area? I have request. Can you get tray bender a radio job in KC? he goes back and forth between being the kansas basketball announcer and being a news guy on our local radio station kdus - and sometimes fill in announcer. His wife must have a job in az or something...I am from Missouri and hate the kansas jayhawks..and I all he really knows to talk about is basketball - mostly kansas. he is now filling in for jurecki and lewis because of technical problems..I hate hearing about kansas basketball all of the time...

No, I live in Nashville, but will soon move to Austin. I graduated from Mizzou, but got my MBA from KU. My heart is with Mizzou.

 

[BACH]

Originally posted by Alphaman
What position of strength do you have?

1) Jones will be cut.

2) You have a huge void at WR.

3) We are still in negotiations with Olandis Gary who has better stats than Jones.


If you don't want to give up a pick, that's fine. I think a 7th round pick for Jones can get done.

1) Yes, he'll probably be cut when Damien Anderson and Scobey beats him out of the 3rd and 4th RB spot after training camp. Can you wait until September 1st to sign him, if going to be the #2 guy?? The Cardinals don't need the cap saving right now, so thay can easily wait until week 2, when the veteran back-ups are signed.

2) You got that right, but neither Morris nor Minnis are better than McAddley, Gilmore, Kasper or Poole. So, why paid for them??

3) True, but Jones hasn't had serious injuries like Gary.

I'll trade Jones straight up for Morris. Both are former 1st round busts.

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by BACH
1) Yes, he'll probably be cut when Damien Anderson and Scobey beats him out of the 3rd and 4th RB spot after training camp. Can you wait until September 1st to sign him, if going to be the #2 guy?? The Cardinals don't need the cap saving right now, so thay can easily wait until week 2, when the veteran back-ups are signed.

2) You got that right, but neither Morris nor Minnis are better than McAddley, Gilmore, Kasper or Poole. So, why paid for them??

3) True, but Jones hasn't had serious injuries like Gary.

I'll trade Jones straight up for Morris. Both are former 1st round busts.

1) Nice try but we all know that you won't want to keep him around during camp given what's transpired between him and the management recently. He needs a new environment and you need him out so that he doesn't hurt morale.

2) You are entitled to your opinion, but I believe most would say that Minnis and Morris are starters the day they become Cardinals. If you sign Marcus Robinson, it does give you more leverage though.

3) But Gary played last year and was not injured. He's a viable alternative should the Cardinals are unreasonable.

4) If the Cardinals are not willing send a pick to the Chiefs along with Jones, then I would just negotiate a low round pick for Jones. Minnis and Morris will have a good shot at making the squad during Chiefs camp.

5) The Chiefs will have a veteran backup RB by the beginning of camp. If we don't make a deal for Jones before he is released, i don't think we'll get him, I think we'll sign Gary.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd be happy witha straight up pick Jones for Morris - hell I'd even throw in a 5th or 6th round pick - I still think Morris could be a player and we need receivers with talent - no matter if they've shown it or not yet.

 

[mdamien13]

Okay, fine, you got us - take Thomas Jones and we'll throw in Michael Stone at no extra charge for a 4th round pick.

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by mdamien13
Okay, fine, you got us - take Thomas Jones and we'll throw in Michael Stone at no extra charge for a 4th round pick.

Who is Michael Stone? I'm guessing that you are attempting to make a point. I've only been talking about Minnis and Morris because of your obvious need at WR. I'd be more than happy to trade a low round pick for Jones.

If you want to trade a CB that has started before and could challenge for a starting role, then I would definitely consider him and Jones for a higher pick or Minnis and a pick. Stone ain't that guy. He's never started for you. I'm not trying to pass off trash to you guys. I honestly believe that Minnis and Morris have talent to play in this league. The emergence of Marc Boerigter (8 TDs and 21 yards per catch) and of Dante Hall (lightening in a bottle...3 TDs over 50 yards), made them both expendable.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by mdamien13
Okay, fine, you got us - take Thomas Jones and we'll throw in Michael Stone at no extra charge for a 4th round pick.

You might do that. I certainly wouldn't right now.

 

[Stronso]

I would trade TJ for a case of O'Douls at this point

 

[BACH]

Originally posted by Alphaman
1) Nice try but we all know that you won't want to keep him around during camp given what's transpired between him and the management recently. He needs a new environment and you need him out so that he doesn't hurt morale.

2) You are entitled to your opinion, but I believe most would say that Minnis and Morris are starters the day they become Cardinals. If you sign Marcus Robinson, it does give you more leverage though.

3) But Gary played last year and was not injured. He's a viable alternative should the Cardinals are unreasonable.

4) If the Cardinals are not willing send a pick to the Chiefs along with Jones, then I would just negotiate a low round pick for Jones. Minnis and Morris will have a good shot at making the squad during Chiefs camp.

5) The Chiefs will have a veteran backup RB by the beginning of camp. If we don't make a deal for Jones before he is released, i don't think we'll get him, I think we'll sign Gary.

1) Why not??? Ok, honestly. Right now, Anderson is #3 and Jones should be #4. What if Shipp or Emmitt goes down? Then Jones would have yet another chance. The episode between him and management... Well, Jones is stupider than I thought if he's still mad about that, since several people saw Jones in a fight at a night club and broke a guys nose the same night as he broke his hand "answering the phone".

2) Hmm, both players played OK in their rookie years, but haven't done anything since. Let's make a comparison with McAddley. He started the year as #5 behind the veterans, but wasn't active until game 8, because injuries to Shipp and Jones forced the Cards to activate Anderson and then only have room to activate 4 WRs.
Morris - 15 games - 14 starts - 48 reps- 678 yds. - 48 yds avr.
Minnis - 13 games - 11 starts - 33 reps- 511 yds. - 46 yds avr.
McAddley - 9 games - 8 starts - 25 reps- 362 yds. - 45 yds avr.

It's about the same, BUT Minnis didn't do anything last year. Morris hasn't done anything in TWO years!!!

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Minnis

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I wouldn't even want to ship out the fourth.

Jones for Minnis, or Jones for Morris, or no deal.

We are the ones that are bargaining from the position of strength, not them. Neither of those players are great prospects.

I agree with ya 100%.

Morris was a first round pick from Jackson St.and at 6'3"215 is tough in the red zone....he had ACL surgery a few years ago.

Minnis has been fairly injury free except for a broken bone in his foot 2 years ago in mini-camp....he was a 3rd round choice outta Fl.St.

Of the 2 maybe I like Minnis better because he's more of a vertical receiver that Blake needs.

No 4th with Jones however....straight up is just fine.

 

[JeffGollin]

It's interesting how fans view the same players. I'd say that 70% of Chiefs fans prefer Gary over Jones.
So forget Jones. It's a free country.

But as I see it, if KC wants TJ, they'll have to ante up.

What we get in return should depend in part on Marcus Robinson and his physical. If Marcus is healthy and we can sign him, I'd rather pass on either Morris (unless he's healthy) or Minnis (too slender) and opt instead for a draft pick.

Other than Tillman and arguably Mark Smith, we've tended to have had better luck signing rookie free agents than we have drafting folks from rounds 5-7, so I'd hang tough and insist on a 4th rounder.

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
It's interesting how fans view the same players. I'd say that 70% of Chiefs fans prefer Gary over Jones.
So forget Jones. It's a free country.

But as I see it, if KC wants TJ, they'll have to ante up.

What we get in return should depend in part on Marcus Robinson and his physical. If Marcus is healthy and we can sign him, I'd rather pass on either Morris (unless he's healthy) or Minnis (too slender) and opt instead for a draft pick.

Other than Tillman and arguably Mark Smith, we've tended to have had better luck signing rookie free agents than we have drafting folks from rounds 5-7, so I'd hang tough and insist on a 4th rounder.

You won't get a 4th for Jones. Not from KC, not from anyone. I understand where your heart is, but the Cardinals just don't have the leverage to demand a 4th for Jones. Remember this is a guy everyone knows you are going to release. Most likely a 7th, but a 6th is possible. Perhaps there has been other interest, but KC is the only one that has been reported. KC doesn't have a 6th, so they'll likely only offer the 7th. They could however, offer a 7th in 2004 which is conditional and could become a 6th.

 

[Alphaman]

Re: Minnis

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
I agree with ya 100%.

Morris was a first round pick from Jackson St.and at 6'3"215 is tough in the red zone....he had ACL surgery a few years ago.

Minnis has been fairly injury free except for a broken bone in his foot 2 years ago in mini-camp....he was a 3rd round choice outta Fl.St.

Of the 2 maybe I like Minnis better because he's more of a vertical receiver that Blake needs.

No 4th with Jones however....straight up is just fine.

That's an accurate assesment of each. Frankly, I think Morris is the better overall receiver, but Minnis is a good one. I wouldn't do straight up for Jones, but I'd be more than happy to trade a low round pick.

 

[earthsci]

Originally posted by Alphaman
You won't get a 4th for Jones. Not from KC, not from anyone. I understand where your heart is, but the Cardinals just don't have the leverage to demand a 4th for Jones. Remember this is a guy everyone knows you are going to release. Most likely a 7th, but a 6th is possible. Perhaps there has been other interest, but KC is the only one that has been reported. KC doesn't have a 6th, so they'll likely only offer the 7th. They could however, offer a 7th in 2004 which is conditional and could become a 6th.

Forget you Alphaman. We'll just play hardball and stick to our principles. If we end up cutting him at least we'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you guys didn't get the best of us.

Nothing for TJ. Then you'll be sorry.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Other than Tillman and arguably Mark Smith, we've tended to have had better luck signing rookie free agents than we have drafting folks from rounds 5-7, so I'd hang tough and insist on a 4th rounder.[/COLOR]

You know, I hate to say this, because I know I'm going to get beat down, but here goes:

Pat Tillman is a great person with an admirable sense of duty, but I don't want him starting for my football team, and I don't think that there's a fan with a brain who would say otherwise. He's not that good. He continually was burned by WRs and TEs, he'd miss tackles, he didn't relate well with other members of the D, who probably resented all the attention he got from hometown fans and the press. The guy's a liability.

If he gets back and wants to play in the NFL again, I'd be happy to have him as a Card to cover Kickoffs for the vet minimum, but if he came back and was a starter, I'd find another team to cheer for.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by kerouac9
You know, I hate to say this, because I know I'm going to get beat down, but here goes:

Pat Tillman is a great person with an admirable sense of duty, but I don't want him starting for my football team, and I don't think that there's a fan with a brain who would say otherwise. He's not that good. He continually was burned by WRs and TEs, he'd miss tackles, he didn't relate well with other members of the D, who probably resented all the attention he got from hometown fans and the press. The guy's a liability.

If he gets back and wants to play in the NFL again, I'd be happy to have him as a Card to cover Kickoffs for the vet minimum, but if he came back and was a starter, I'd find another team to cheer for.

Agree with all the above - also - come on guys - NO ONE'S GIVING US A FOURTH FOR JONES! That's not me being pessimistic, it's called understanding how the NFL works.

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by earthsci
Forget you Alphaman. We'll just play hardball and stick to our principles. If we end up cutting him at least we'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you guys didn't get the best of us.

Nothing for TJ. Then you'll be sorry.

Wow dude!!! You taking this a bit personally. I thought we were having an intelligent football debate. I'm making my case, you guys are making yours based on the information we have available.

If the Cardinals choose to keep him and then cut him because the Chiefs wouldn't overpay (a 4th round pick) and get nothing, that's fine. My guess is that most Cardinals fans would be upset by that, if it came out that the Chiefs did offer a 7th round pick.

Let's talk about the business of football. If the Chiefs trade Sylvestor Morris or release him prior to June 1st, then the Chiefs take a $2.5M cap hit because of the accelerated signing bonus. This is because he has 2 or 3 years left on his contract. Therefore, a trade for him will have to be pretty valuable to the Chiefs to entice them to take that hit. Contrast that with Jones. He is entering the last year of his deal. That means there is no accelerated bonus if he is traded or released prior to June 1st. His prorated bonus will be the same if he is on the team or not (unless he is released after June 1st....fyi, traded after June 1st is that same as released before June 1st). Therefore, by waiting to cut him and getting nothing in return there is no huge cap benefit. The prudent thing to do is take the best pick you can get for him. Other GMs know this as well, and won't pony up a mid round pick for him.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I'd find another team to cheer for.

Why wait? You seem to get no enjoyment from this team at all.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
Why wait? You seem to get no enjoyment from this team at all.

Jesus. Sorry if because I don't love Graves and the offseason moves, or worship in the house of Leftwich, I hate the team.

I love this team. I live and die with them for seventeen weeks a year, and waste countless hours at work trying to wring whatever info I can about them during the season and offseason.

I don't like this team right now as it stands, and the direction that some people, like Section 11, would direct it if they were in charge. But that doesn't change the fact that come September, I'll strap on my red jersey and pray they perform far beyond my expectations.

Who are you, man? Since when are you the "fan police"?

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Shipp will be better (and he was head and shoulders better than Jones) but he lacks the speed to be an elite back.

Krang,

What makes you think that you need blazing speed to be an elite RB????

Do you consider Emmitt Smith an elite back when he first entered the league??? Because Im here to tell you that he was not any faster than Shipp at his age. What about Walter Payton was he a burner? Earl Campbell? John Riggins? Larry Csonka? How many of these guys are speedsters? Stephen Davis? Im quite certain I could think of others as well!

What kind of careers did thses guys have despite the lack of sprinters speed?

Sorry but I saw all I need to know when I saw Shipp outrun the entire Rams secondary on an 80 yard jaunt to the endzone in St. Louis last year!

So I must ask why does anyone for the life of me think that SHipp isnt fast enough to be "elite"

 

[SweetD]

OK Alphaman the problem is the Cards can keep or cut Jones and not have worry about any big cap hits. You trade or cut Morris you get stuck with a nice bill. So if we maybe trade Jones for a fourth and wait for Morris to be cut in a sence we would get Morris and a fourth (or what ever) for Jones and KC still picks up the bill. If we are looking at it in a biz wiz then the Cards would be better off trading Jones for a late round pick (to anyother team as well) and waiting for KC to cut Morris and sign him to a better contact then if we traded for him.

"First you Hate me, Now you love me. BLOW!"

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
waste countless hours at work trying to wring whatever info I can about them during the season and offseason

You're at work?!

I'm appalled.
The fact that you could do this on the clock really offends me.

 

[earthsci]

Originally posted by Alphaman


Wow dude!!! You taking this a bit personally. I thought we were having an intelligent football debate. I'm making my case, you guys are making yours based on the information we have available.

Alphaman,
I was being a bit facetious. I'm all in favor of a trade for whatever we can get for TJ. Granted, I don't think that we should just jump on the first offer, there should be some negotiating.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
You're at work?!

I'm appalled.
The fact that you could do this on the clock really offends me.

I am at work to you got a problem with that?

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Jesus. Sorry if because I don't love Graves and the offseason moves, or worship in the house of Leftwich, I hate the team.

I love this team. I live and die with them for seventeen weeks a year, and waste countless hours at work trying to wring whatever info I can about them during the season and offseason.

I don't like this team right now as it stands, and the direction that some people, like Section 11, would direct it if they were in charge. But that doesn't change the fact that come September, I'll strap on my red jersey and pray they perform far beyond my expectations.

Who are you, man? Since when are you the "fan police"?

Take a dilaudid, dude. I'm glad your a true fan. If so, starting Tillman shouldn't change that. But two years is too far away to mope about it NOW.