Chiefs may try to trade for Arizona running back Jones

[earthsci]

Originally posted by SweetD
If we are looking at it in a biz wiz then the Cards would be better off trading Jones for a late round pick (to anyother team as well)...

The problem with that theory is, as of yet, no one else has shown interest.

 

[SweetD]

I am sure the Giants or someone has a need for a back-up RB, didn't the toss Ron Dayne out?? Someone would give up a 4-5 for a #1 three years ago. I have potential just needs the right coach. (SSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHH!)

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Shane H
Krang,

What makes you think that you need blazing speed to be an elite RB????

Do you consider Emmitt Smith an elite back when he first entered the league??? Because Im here to tell you that he was not any faster than Shipp at his age. What about Walter Payton was he a burner? Earl Campbell? John Riggins? Larry Csonka? How many of these guys are speedsters? Stephen Davis? Im quite certain I could think of others as well!

What kind of careers did thses guys have despite the lack of sprinters speed?

Sorry but I saw all I need to know when I saw Shipp outrun the entire Rams secondary on an 80 yard jaunt to the endzone in St. Louis last year!

So I must ask why does anyone for the life of me think that SHipp isnt fast enough to be "elite"

That might be the case, but I need to see Shipp succeed for a little more time before I write off his lack of speed.

The difference is: Emmitt, Payton, Campbell (who was much bigger), Riggins (bigger also), Csonka (Why not throw out OJ Anderson?), Davis (also bigger).....they all proved it over time, not one season.

Many runningbacks have had ONE good season, but couldn't keep it up due to a number of different reasons, lack of speed being one of them.

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by SweetD
OK Alphaman the problem is the Cards can keep or cut Jones and not have worry about any big cap hits. You trade or cut Morris you get stuck with a nice bill. So if we maybe trade Jones for a fourth and wait for Morris to be cut in a sence we would get Morris and a fourth (or what ever) for Jones and KC still picks up the bill. If we are looking at it in a biz wiz then the Cards would be better off trading Jones for a late round pick (to anyother team as well) and waiting for KC to cut Morris and sign him to a better contact then if we traded for him.

Valid point. 2 problems though....


1) You won't get any team to give you a 4th for him.

2) Morris won't get cut by KC until September. He'll get a shot to make the team, and he's got a decent chance. Signing him in September means you don't get very much from him this season. You also take the risk that a team in front of you on the waiver system (Houston, Detroit) who have a WR need will take him.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Alphaman

2) Morris won't get cut by KC until September.

My God! Alphaman is actually Carl Peterson! Guys, we've been talking to a real NFL GM!

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
That might be the case, but I need to see Shipp succeed for a little more time before I write off his lack of speed.

The difference is: Emmitt, Payton, Campbell (who was much bigger), Riggins (bigger also), Csonka (Why not throw out OJ Anderson?), Davis (also bigger).....they all proved it over time, not one season.

Many runningbacks have had ONE good season, but couldn't keep it up due to a number of different reasons, lack of speed being one of them.

I understand what you mean by saying that you need to be successful over a period of time to prove that you are capable of being an elite RB!

But the bootom line is that if Shipp flops from here on out it wont be from lack of speed. He has the speed he needs and the initial burst to the hole thats required. With that burst he has shown the ability to pick the right hole as well!

I dont care how big those guys are, big and slow doesnt equate to any better of a success rate. Slow is slow period regardless of size! Shipp has the necessary size and strength to play between the tackles!

I agree he needs more carries and more time to prove himself but saying speed is a reason to be skeptical of his ability to be "elite" is way off!

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by SweetD
I am sure the Giants or someone has a need for a back-up RB, didn't the toss Ron Dayne out?? Someone would give up a 4-5 for a #1 three years ago. I have potential just needs the right coach. (SSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHH!)

Not for a guy you are going to cut who hasn't produced at a #1 level. The Chiefs gave up a conditional 4th last year for Willie Roaf, a perennial pro-bowler. The Dolphins gave up a conditional late round pick for Seau, a perennial pro-bowler.


To your point about a former #1 draft pick. Would you give up a 4th or 5th for Ron Dayne?

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
My God! Alphaman is actually Carl Peterson! Guys, we've been talking to a real NFL GM!

OK that made me laugh. I made the September statement with confidence because the past 2 years, the Chiefs have had injuries hit their WRs during camp. 2 years ago, we caught very short on WRs). Vermeil won't let that happen. The only way Morris gets cut before then is if we need cap space. However, Ray Crockett and Marvcus Patton will both be cut or retire after June 1st. That will free up about $2M to $3M in cap space. So we don't have a cap problem right now.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Alphaman
Not for a guy you are going to cut who hasn't produced at a #1 level. The Chiefs gave up a conditional 4th last year for Willie Roaf, a perennial pro-bowler. The Dolphins gave up a conditional late round pick for Seau, a perennial pro-bowler.


To your point about a former #1 draft pick. Would you give up a 4th or 5th for Ron Dayne?

Not at all...good point.

I would be happy with:

a) straight up Jones for Morris or Minnis (preferably Morris). If you believe that Morris might be cut, then really why should we throw in a 4th? Jones WILL make your team.

b) Worst case scenario, a 5-7th rounder. That would be a fair deal for both teams.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Alphaman



OK that made me laugh. I made the September statement with confidence because the past 2 years, the Chiefs have had injuries hit their WRs during camp. 2 years ago, we caught very short on WRs). Vermeil won't let that happen. The only way Morris gets cut before then is if we need cap space. However, Ray Crockett and Marvcus Patton will both be cut or retire after June 1st. That will free up about $2M to $3M in cap space. So we don't have a cap problem right now.

Good, you can take a little joke.

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Not at all...good point.

I would be happy with:

a) straight up Jones for Morris or Minnis (preferably Morris). If you believe that Morris might be cut, then really why should we throw in a 4th? Jones WILL make your team.

b) Worst case scenario, a 5-7th rounder. That would be a fair deal for both teams.

That's fair. I've said all along that I'm fine with a late round pick and I agree that is fair to both teams. Yes, Morris might get cut, but....

1) It won't happen until the last cut
2) While Jones WOULD make our team as a back up RB, as of the personnel today, Morris WOULD start on your team (if he is on your team at the beginning of training camp). Most of you will disagree with that statement and that is fair.

I'm not here to start a fight. Perhaps we leave it at a 7th rounder this year or a conditional 7th rounder (becoming a 6th based on PT) next year, so that we part friends.

 

[BACH]

Originally posted by Alphaman
Not for a guy you are going to cut who hasn't produced at a #1 level. The Chiefs gave up a conditional 4th last year for Willie Roaf, a perennial pro-bowler. The Dolphins gave up a conditional late round pick for Seau, a perennial pro-bowler.

You can't compare those scenarios, Alpha!! Very few teams wanted the pricetag that came with Roaf and Seau, so the price dropped.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

wow, so you've all hammered out a deal?!? when's the press-conference?!?

this entire thread has been an extremely entertaining (not so much) episode of duck, duck, goose.

we're gettin' rid of thomas. good riddance. i don't care how. it'd be nice to get sumpin' for him. if we can fleece someone, i'm all for it.

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by BACH
You can't compare those scenarios, Alpha!! Very few teams wanted the pricetag that came with Roaf and Seau, so the price dropped.

Actually Roaf negotiated a new deal with the Chiefs before they completed the trade. Seau did the same with the Dolphins. His contract was a non-factor.

So tell me how the price for Jones is anything above a 6th round pick. It seems that very few teams have shown an interest in him.

 

[BIGDADDY_REDBIRD]

Alphaman, I love Eric Warfield's Game...How do Chief fans feel about him??? Anyway we can pry him away from KC??? I know they have him penciled in as the starter this year...

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
wow, so you've all hammered out a deal?!? when's the press-conference?!?

this entire thread has been an extremely entertaining (not so much) episode of duck, duck, goose.

we're gettin' rid of thomas. good riddance. i don't care how. it'd be nice to get sumpin' for him. if we can fleece someone, i'm all for it.

Very true...good points.

Jones is part of the Boston Cancer, and getting rid of him will help, not hurt. Jones is a liar (as is his mother) and I don't want to see him again in a Cards uniform.

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by bigdaddy_redbird
Alphaman, I love Eric Warfield's Game...How do Chief fans feel about him??? Anyway we can pry him away from KC??? I know they have him penciled in as the starter this year...

I laugh because most Chiefs fans think we overpaid him to sign last year. He improved as the season went on last year, but remember, we had the worst pass defense in the league....so he was far from spectacular. In truth, he was average at best.

However, he will start for us this year. You won't be able to get him because of the cap hit we'd take in trading him.

 

[BACH]

Originally posted by Alphaman
So tell me how the price for Jones is anything above a 6th round pick. It seems that very few teams have shown an interest in him.

I can't (Well, actually I would rate him as a 5th rounder, but let's forget about that).

It's not Jones' price that I have a problem with, it's your rating of Morris and Minnis. Jones' value should be as high as their's if not higher... Morris hasn't played for two seasons!!!!! Minnis didn't play last year.

Regarding Seau and Roaf's cap numbers. Yes, they re-negociated, BUT the new contacts did NOT lower the cap number, they just spread it over more years.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
wow, so you've all hammered out a deal?!? when's the press-conference?!?

this entire thread has been an extremely entertaining (not so much) episode of duck, duck, goose.

we're gettin' rid of thomas. good riddance. i don't care how. it'd be nice to get sumpin' for him. if we can fleece someone, i'm all for it.

I will get Jim O to post the press conference in a few secounds.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Another factor that isn't really been mentioned....Priest Holmes' injury is pretty serious. It is the type of injury that could ruin his career.

That is a big chip that we have in negotiations....

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Another factor that isn't really been mentioned....Priest Holmes' injury is pretty serious. It is the type of injury that could ruin his career.

That is a big chip that we have in negotiations....

Krang - don't you think if Holmes' injury was THAT serious, they would be trying to upgrade a little harder than going after Thomas Jones or Olandis Gary?

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by BACH
I can't (Well, actually I would rate him as a 5th rounder, but let's forget about that).

It's not Jones' price that I have a problem with, it's your rating of Morris and Minnis. Jones' value should be as high as their's if not higher... Morris hasn't played for two seasons!!!!! Minnis didn't play last year.

Regarding Seau and Roaf's cap numbers. Yes, they re-negociated, BUT the new contacts did NOT lower the cap number, they just spread it over more years.

Fair point on Morris and Minnis. My main argument is that neither of them is pending release. They both will have a good chance at making the team.

Seau and Roaf negotiated new deals with their new teams. The cap hit went to the old team.

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Krang - don't you think if Holmes' injury was THAT serious, they would be trying to upgrade a little harder than going after Thomas Jones or Olandis Gary?

Exactly. The Chiefs are in the market for a backup RB. It was reported last week that he'll be at 100% in June.


I'm off to a Good Friday Service guys. I'll be back later to provide the Chiefs side of this discussion.

 

[BACH]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Another factor that isn't really been mentioned....Priest Holmes' injury is pretty serious. It is the type of injury that could ruin his career.

That is a big chip that we have in negotiations....

Hmm, another chip could be:

Chiefs | Holmes Not Happy With Contract - from KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com)
February 23, 2003 11:55:00 PT Updating previous stories, the Kansas City Star reports Kansas City Chiefs RB Priest Holmes is not happy with his current contract. "I deserve to get paid more," he says. Holmes also stated he would sit out the entire season if that's what it takes to get paid what he feels he is entitled to. "I'm prepared to do what I have to do," he added.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Krang - don't you think if Holmes' injury was THAT serious, they would be trying to upgrade a little harder than going after Thomas Jones or Olandis Gary?

Bologna. Who out there fits there system and is available?

Plus the Chiefs don't exactly have any cap room.