Chriss???

[ColdPickleNachos]

The Bender bashing is going overboard already. Every mistake Ayton makes is pushed aside with the excuse being that Summer League is a terrible place for bigs to show their stuff but with Bender every negative is amplified. There's no consistency.

Bender played 24 minutes, shot 0 for 5 from the field, had 5 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 4 fouls.
Ayton played 29 minutes, shot 8 for 11 from the field, had 12 rebounds, 0 turnovers, and 1 foul.

I was there. Bender was a running joke for the people sitting in the row ahead of me and the people sitting in the row behind me. They were not Suns fans. Virtually every player on the team looked good except for Bender, who stood out in all the worst ways.

I've been a Bender defender. I'm not even saying Summer League means that much for bigs. But Bender and Ayton were WORLDS apart yesterday.

 

[Mainstreet]

Bender played 24 minutes, shot 0 for 5 from the field, had 5 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 4 fouls.
Ayton played 29 minutes, shot 8 for 11 from the field, had 12 rebounds, 0 turnovers, and 1 foul.

I was there. Bender was a running joke for the people sitting in the row ahead of me and the people sitting in the row behind me. They were not Suns fans. Virtually every player on the team looked good except for Bender, who stood out in all the worst ways.

Ive been a Bender defender. I'm not even saying Summer League means that much for bigs. But Bender and Ayton were WORLDS apart yesterday.

I can't defend Bender anymore. If I had to choose between Bender and Chriss, I'd choose Chriss. Neither are looking good right now but I think there is a chance Chriss can put it together someday.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

This was one of the first plays of the game. Bender tries to drive past Giles and can't get any traction, so he settles for a jumper...and gets blocked easily.

He looks tentative out there, like his confidence is shot. That's a really bad sign for a third year player in Summer League.

 

[Mainstreet]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

This was one of the first plays of the game. Bender tries to drive past Giles and can't get any traction, so he settles for a jumper...and gets blocked easily.

He looks tentative out there, like his confidence is shot. That's a really bad sign for a third year player in Summer League.

I agree. It also shows a lack of awareness that he was not going to be able to shoot the ball over Giles.

Also I need to give the Kings more credit for their recent draft picks. Giles could be a really good one not to mention Fox and Bagley.

 

[Hoop Head]

Bender played 24 minutes, shot 0 for 5 from the field, had 5 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 4 fouls.
Ayton played 29 minutes, shot 8 for 11 from the field, had 12 rebounds, 0 turnovers, and 1 foul.

I was there. Bender was a running joke for the people sitting in the row ahead of me and the people sitting in the row behind me. They were not Suns fans. Virtually every player on the team looked good except for Bender, who stood out in all the worst ways.

I've been a Bender defender. I'm not even saying Summer League means that much for bigs. But Bender and Ayton were WORLDS apart yesterday.

I get they're worlds apart, I've watched both games. Bender's been awful. I asked in the game thread about why people keep throwing out the "Summer League doesn't matter for bigs, it's not a good indicator of anything for them" line whenever any big other than Bender is being excused for something. Everyone that answered talked about how guards force the issue and try to do more since they're competing for roster spots and I can see that. The game is sloppier all around and that's fine. I just don't see how that applies to every Big with the exception of Bender.

I know he's been to SL before but so has Jackson and he's looked pretty bad also. JJ has looked better than bender but he's still looked bad. Bender is still just 20 years old and is the 2nd youngest player on the Suns roster and only has 29 players in the entire NBA younger than he is now after the last draft. Age matters. He needs to develop more and start showing something but we shouldn't declare he's done because of how he's playing in SL.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I get they're worlds apart, I've watched both games. Bender's been awful. I asked in the game thread about why people keep throwing out the "Summer League doesn't matter for bigs, it's not a good indicator of anything for them" line whenever any big other than Bender is being excused for something. Everyone that answered talked about how guards force the issue and try to do more since they're competing for roster spots and I can see that. The game is sloppier all around and that's fine. I just don't see how that applies to every Big with the exception of Bender.

I know he's been to SL before but so has Jackson and he's looked pretty bad also. JJ has looked better than bender but he's still looked bad. Bender is still just 20 years old and is the 2nd youngest player on the Suns roster and only has 29 players in the entire NBA younger than he is now after the last draft. Age matters. He needs to develop more and start showing something but we shouldn't declare he's done because of how he's playing in SL.

I don't worry about Jackson because he's already shown a lot in the NBA. Also, his block on Bagley makes up for everything else.

I'm not done with Bender...but I'm getting more and more discouraged. I think one reason Bender doesn't get the Summer League bigs courtesy is because his game is not always that of a big. He's spotting up for threes and driving, not looking for passes in the post. In other words, Ayton can't get the ball sometimes and that results in players making bad turnovers. Bender, on the other hand, is the one making the turnovers.

He's still an interesting prospect because of his defensive potential, height, and three point shooting, but that's all he is right now...a prospect. And I see plenty of better prospects at Summer League.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't worry about Jackson because he's already shown a lot in the NBA. Also, his block on Bagley makes up for everything else.

I'm not done with Bender...but I'm getting more and more discouraged. I think one reason Bender doesn't get the Summer League bigs courtesy is because his game is not always that of a big. He's spotting up for threes and driving, not looking for passes in the post. In other words, Ayton can't get the ball sometimes and that results in players making bad turnovers. Bender, on the other hand, is the one making the turnovers.

He's still an interesting prospect because of his defensive potential, height, and three point shooting, but that's all he is right now...a prospect. And I see plenty of better prospects at Summer League.

I agree with all of this. But I am a little concerned with JJ. I really expected to see a better shot. Even his free throw shooting looks no better. That’s disappointing.

 

[Phrazbit]

I agree. It also shows a lack of awareness that he was not going to be able to shoot the ball over Giles.

Also I need to give the Kings more credit for their recent draft picks. Giles could be a really good one not to mention Fox and Bagley.

Eh, you might want to revisit this thought in a year or 2. Fox was putrid last year, I'm surprised he isn't in the summer league. With any player you want to know that they do something well and maybe can work on the rest. Fox was terrible at every phase of the game.

I don't know how Bagley will turnout but, personally, I had would have taken Doncic, JJJ and Young over him.

 

[Chaplin]

How important is being great on defense? If Bender was a spectacular player on offense but stunk on defense (like TJ Warren for example), and only 20 years old, would we be calling for his getting off the team? Maybe a bit because that shows he has some value. Why should that be any different when the opposite is the case (great D and terrible O)?

 

[Phrazbit]

How important is being great on defense? If Bender was a spectacular player on offense but stunk on defense (like TJ Warren for example), and only 20 years old, would we be calling for his getting off the team? Maybe a bit because that shows he has some value. Why should that be any different when the opposite is the case (great D and terrible O)?

What concerns me more in the reverse is how totally lost Bender looks. Terrible passes, air balls in the restricted area, getting blocked by shorter players from the perimeter. I like the hustle, but I'm getting really concerned that he just doesn't know how to play basketball.

I've been a Bender defender and a discounter of the importance of summer league, but the rate at which Bender not just struggles but is embarrassing... I'm losing hope.

 

[SirStefan32]

How important is being great on defense? If Bender was a spectacular player on offense but stunk on defense (like TJ Warren for example), and only 20 years old, would we be calling for his getting off the team? Maybe a bit because that shows he has some value. Why should that be any different when the opposite is the case (great D and terrible O)?

You see that with Chriss too. He is awful defensively- zero defensive awareness, no understanding of rotations, etc. Yet we rarely see those complaints here. Bender has been disappointing in his first two games mainly due to shooting and turnovers. He's been just fine defensively, but because he only really has two skills, when his three-point shot is not falling, he looks terrible. He is trying to drive in, which is resulting in some turnovers (two travels that I've seen). He has to understand that he has to hit a shot or two before he starts driving to the hoop. I like that he is shooting without hesitation and driving to the hoop.

Listening to McD during the first game, I think the Suns really like Bender due to his shooting and defense. Bottom line is that defense will keep you on the court, and it is the main reason Bender will keep getting playing time. He has got to find his shot again, and he has to continue driving to the hoop.

 

[Chaplin]

I also think both Bender and Chriss deserve more than just a couple weeks under Igor.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I also think both Bender and Chriss deserve more than just a couple weeks under Igor.

I am with you all on this too. However, if other players play better, they should get the minutes. I have no problem if Bridges or Ariza take minutes from Bender and Chriss. The days of "give the young guys the minutes" are over. That was a way of developing young talent and tanking. Now they are going to have to step it up on practice and on the court if they are going to see playing time.

 

[Phrazbit]

I also think both Bender and Chriss deserve more than just a couple weeks under Igor.

I agree.

 

[pokerface]

He's looked bad, I'm not denying that. The fact that he looks the same as he did last season right now in SL isn't a good sign, at all. I still think it's too early to give up on him entirely. He's still the 30th youngest player in the entire league. That's odd considering he's going to be entering his 3rd year. If Alex Len got 5 years to show something though I think Bender deserves at least 3.

There is a double standard happening with how some are commenting on the SL games. A number of people have pointed out how guard play is huge in the SL and it's not a good indicator of what bigs are capable of doing. That's only being mentioned regarding Ayton though and ignoring that same line of thinking when discussing Bender. There should be some consistency to how players are judged. I'm not saying you did that, I should have made that point in a separate post but I was already replying to you about Summer League and Pre-Season.

I agree I'm not ready to give up on Bender. His progress just seems to be non existent. It like are these guys not being coached or what ? Koko needs to drill and drill this guy .

 

[BleedRed]

I honestly think bender is playing because he is on the bubble, and there aren't enough minutes for both him and Chriss. Bender has looked pathetic so far. Can't imagine him being released but at this point wouldn't mind seeing him traded.... haven't felt that way before. Just don't see him developing at all and he's soft as hell. His shot looks good but doesn't fall with any consistency. Hopefully we can find value for Bender and Warren prior to the start of the season.

 

[95pro]

I honestly think bender is playing because he is on the bubble, and there aren't enough minutes for both him and Chriss. Bender has looked pathetic so far. Can't imagine him being released but at this point wouldn't mind seeing him traded.... haven't felt that way before. Just don't see him developing at all and he's soft as hell. His shot looks good but doesn't fall with any consistency. Hopefully we can find value for Bender and Warren prior to the start of the season.

His shot has been looking flat again in summer league.

 

[Mainstreet]

Eh, you might want to revisit this thought in a year or 2. Fox was putrid last year, I'm surprised he isn't in the summer league. With any player you want to know that they do something well and maybe can work on the rest. Fox was terrible at every phase of the game.

I don't know how Bagley will turnout but, personally, I had would have taken Doncic, JJJ and Young over him.

Fox should be in the summer league. I'm not sure why he is not because he needs the minutes. Prior to the 2017 draft I really got attached to Fox's game at Kentucky. I guess time will tell.

In regard to the #2 pick in the 2018 draft I think Jaren Jackson Jr. would have been the right choice. After that I would list Bagley and Doncic as #3-4 respectively. IMO, Young went where he should have at #5.

 

[Raze]

If you had to decompose Defense into one word it would be HEART. Fundamentals of form are valuable but they always pale in comparison to heart. Bender has that. He displays it every time he's on the court. He will always have value because of his defense. (Often, fans completely ignore the defensive side of the ball regardless that is represents 50% of a player's minutes.)

If you had to decompose Offense into one word it would be CONFIDENCE. Fundamentals of form are valuable but they always pale in comparison to confidence. Bender doesn't have that. I'm not sure he ever will. He will always be a wavering offensive player as long as his confidence wavers.

The Suns have to be aware of this. It's why they are so gentle with him at his extremely young age. But I don't think he'll ever gain confidence on this team. He needs to go down a division to be the MAN for a while. At least a year. And that's the problem. We can't really do that. So we are stuck hoping he'll gain confidence playing against the best in the world when we all know he's not ready to do that.

Chriss has nothing to do with that. He has an entirely different set of issues that are equally challenging. Maturity being the primary concern. However, he has a massive upside if he can ever pull his head out of his...

 

[overseascardfan]

Fox should be in the summer league. I'm not sure why he is not because he needs the minutes. Prior to the 2017 draft I really got attached to Fox's game at Kentucky. I guess time will tell.

In regard to the #2 pick in the 2018 draft I think Jaren Jackson Jr. would have been the right choice. After that I would list Bagley and Doncic as #3-4 respectively. IMO, Young went where he should have at #5.

I think Wendell Carter should have went #2, watched highlights against CLE, he was a beast.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Wendell Carter should have went #2, watched highlights against CLE, he was a beast.

I haven't seen Carter play yet in summer league. He should be good but I liked JJJ's overall game. Some of these players are going to hit and some are going to miss. If the Suns had traded down, Carter would have been a solid target.

 

[pokerface]

In regard to the #2 pick in the 2018 draft I think Jaren Jackson Jr. would have been the right choice. After that I would list Bagley and Doncic as #3-4 respectively. IMO, Young went where he should have at #5.

Yup!

 

[Mainstreet]

I honestly think bender is playing because he is on the bubble, and there aren't enough minutes for both him and Chriss. Bender has looked pathetic so far. Can't imagine him being released but at this point wouldn't mind seeing him traded.... haven't felt that way before. Just don't see him developing at all and he's soft as hell. His shot looks good but doesn't fall with any consistency. Hopefully we can find value for Bender and Warren prior to the start of the season.

I'm getting this feeling as well.

 

[devilalum]

Agree that Bender hasn’t shown a lot but how many 7 footers his age showed much more?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Agree that Bender hasn’t shown a lot but how many 7 footers his age showed much more?

Yes. Every time I see him struggle I keep repeating “jermaine O’Neal, jermaine O’Neal, jermaine O’Neal” to myself and get comfortable giving him more time.