CNNSI Mock Draft

[football karma]

No way DRC was better than Chris Johnson and give me Laurinitis vs. Beanie, but at least that one is closer.

we know that today, but not then

Chris Johnson was being talked about as a 2nd round possibility for the Cards if they didn't take one in round 1

Laurinitis was never a top half of the draft kind of guy

 

[earthsci]

No way DRC was better than Chris Johnson and give me Laurinitis vs. Beanie, but at least that one is closer.

Hindsight. Chris Johnson was the fifth RB picked and Laurinaitis wasn't even picked until the second round.

 

[football karma]

I believe it was a combination of BPA and position of need. At the time, of the 2008 draft, we had Rod Hood and Eric Green as our starting CBs. Eeek. DRC came in, started out playing nickel packages and in one year became a pro bowler. Not a bad pick IMO

The jury is still out on Beanie but regardless I think it was a good pick. All we had was an aging, dissatisfied Edge and a raw THT. We can argue that Laurenitis (sp) or Rey Maualuga, a guy I loved coming out of USC, were better picks, but Beanie was graded pretty high in the 2009 draft. Some had him ahead of Moreno, who went much earlier in that draft. I want to see what he does when he's 100% and has a halfway decent line blocking for us. He certainly passes the eye test, but he is a liability if hes not 100% or even off the field

the idea isnt about how they turned out -- its about if the team took (arguably) the best rated player available when they drafted, or did they reach for a materially lower rated player to fill a need.

I think its much easier to accomplish both BPA and Need by the later half of the first round because there are typically a group of similarly rated players to pick from.

In the top 5, I dont think you have that luxury, and I think for the most part, you HAVE to go BPA.


In the case of Beanie and DRC, I dont think you can point to a materially higher rated player (on the day of the draft) they passed on to take either of those guys

 

[earthsci]

2008 Mock Drafts. DRC is top 10 or 11 in these. Chris Johnson isn't a first rounder in any.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2008.php
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nflmockdraft.html
http://www.draftking.com/nfl/2008/mockdraft.shtml

 

[clif]

I thought Whiz and Graves have already freely admitted that they don't follow a true BPA theory. It's a BPA with an eye towards a position of need. (which means in their mind a guard who we will try to make into a tackle)

With that being said outside of QB (which I'm resigned to the fact that we will NOT address on day one) the biggest need would seem to be to find someone to replace Porter, Haggans and or add some size in the middle.

 

[football karma]

I thought Whiz and Graves have already freely admitted that they don't follow a true BPA theory. It's a BPA with an eye towards a position of need. (which means in their mind a guard who we will try to make into a tackle)

With that being said outside of QB (which I'm resigned to the fact that we will NOT address on day one) the biggest need would seem to be to find someone to replace Porter, Haggans and or add some size in the middle.

they just rank players, in part, by how much they need help at certain positions

so they would call it B*PA-- with the B* meaning "best, factoring in which positions we need help at"

 

[Folster]

Most teams have a tiered BPA system in place that allows to draft by need, but not pass on a superior talent.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

we know that today, but not then

Chris Johnson was being talked about as a 2nd round possibility for the Cards if they didn't take one in round 1

Laurinitis was never a top half of the draft kind of guy

Hindsight. Chris Johnson was the fifth RB picked and Laurinaitis wasn't even picked until the second round.

Of course you have to use hindsight. That's how you evaluate any draft pick you make long term.

 

[D-Dogg]

DCR, you can't do that during the draft.

During the draft, you take BPA as known then. CJ wasn't determined to be that, but panned out a lot better than predicted.

That day, Beanie was the best player available. Now, there are second, third and probably fourth rounders you would have rather hand.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Of course you have to use hindsight. That's how you evaluate any draft pick you make long term.

Maybe you miss his point. At the time, Chris Johnson certainly didn't look worthy of the pick by any standard. Of course now it's easy to say that Johnson would have been a better pick, but that just makes you Captain Hindsight.

It's like saying all the teams that passed on Tom Brady 6 times were stupid. Of course that's true now, with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Buckybird]

I will continue saying this, but it wouldn't matter if we had Revis & Bailey as our CBs because they'd still get torched without having a pass rush. It's football 101.

But drafting an edge rusher hasn't been Cards drafting 101
Stupid Redbirds!!!

 

[football karma]

I forgot to post this earlier:

the mock draft is by Andrew Perlof -- and he is an idiot

 

[earthsci]

Of course you have to use hindsight. That's how you evaluate any draft pick you make long term.

Donald and ASUCHRIS covered it. (BPA is based on what you know that day and who you think is the BPA. According to your rational no one was using the BPA philosophy in the 2000 draft.)

 

[Garthshort]

When you draft #5, you HAVE to go BPA. If a number of players are more or less even then need enters the equation. Just a reminder, there are very few SURE THINGS. So it's nice to say pass rushers before cornerbacks, but just hope you get the right one. If the CB is considered more of a sure thing than a pass rusher, then go CB. JMO.

 

[vinnymac]

Don't forget Adam Carriker and Patrick Willis was avaible as well(the two players I was hoping to draft instread of Levi Brown). If a Qb is the main need for the Cardinals then Ryan Mallet if he declares. Not a big fan of Newton. I also wouldn't mind the Cardinals looking at D J Williams, Tight End for Arkansas. #5 is obvisouly to high for a tight end.

 

[conraddobler]

Our tiered BPA system goes something like this.

We need a LT, so that guy is a great LT and amazingly enough that's what we need, great pick!

Dud.

 

[oaken1]

most draft sites have players ranked with "Madden" ratings,....1 through 100....if teams use w similar system, my guess would be they just add a few points to positions of need..... ie,...we need an OLB....so if the backer is ranked 89, then for us he is ranked 94....so you take him, unless someone is on the board who is a natural 94,...or a 95, etc.

 

[Chopper0080]

I will continue saying this, but it wouldn't matter if we had Revis & Bailey as our CBs because they'd still get torched without having a pass rush. It's football 101.

Keep in mind that the Jets lack a great edge rusher and they have a pretty good defense because they have depth and skill at CB. More thanthat, they don't have a moron at DC.

If Peterson is available, you have to take him because he is the best non-qb in the draft and he upgrades multiple positions. A tall, physical and fast corner who has great play making skills and can return punts and kicks. Lock it up.

 

[CtCardinals78]

I believe CB is a position you avoid taking in the top 10. The rules are geared for CBs to fail more often that succeed, they can't make as much of an impact as a pass rusher.

I remember reading CB is the hardest position to learn how to play in the NFL besides QB and has the biggest learning curve.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Of course you have to use hindsight. That's how you evaluate any draft pick you make long term.

FWIW, I had Tom Brady rated as the best QB in his draft. At least I did the year after he won his 1st Super Bowl .

 

[dreamcastrocks]

That day, Beanie was the best player available. Now, there are second, third and probably fourth rounders you would have rather hand.

I don't think that he is. He certainly hasn't proven it yet. It definitely was a pick of need, and appeared to be BPA. He isn't, or hasn't shown it.

 

[Mulli]

I don't think that he is. He certainly hasn't proven it yet. It definitely was a pick of need, and appeared to be BPA. He isn't, or hasn't shown it.

Maybe it depends on what your definition of "is" is.

This thread rules.

 

[DoTheDew]

I don't think that he is. He certainly hasn't proven it yet. It definitely was a pick of need, and appeared to be BPA. He isn't, or hasn't shown it.

If we're debating about Whiz's success with his picks, than yes Beanie was a mistake thus far. If we are talking about Whiz's draft day philosophy, we have to base his decisions on what he was thinking on draft day. Hindsight can't be used.

Since this conversation started talking about whether Whiz drafted for need or BPA, Beanie was BPA. In fact he was largely considered a steal at #31 at the time.

 

[RonF]

Why would any team spend a #5 pick on a CB that needs to improve his coverage skills? We already have one of those...DRC. I would prefer that we select a defensive lineman or LB with a dislike for QBs.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

If we're debating about Whiz's success with his picks, than yes Beanie was a mistake thus far. If we are talking about Whiz's draft day philosophy, we have to base his decisions on what he was thinking on draft day. Hindsight can't be used.

Since this conversation started talking about whether Whiz drafted for need or BPA, Beanie was BPA. In fact he was largely considered a steal at #31 at the time.

This is where I disagree. We have drafted for need first. Williams, Beanie, DRC, Levi, Leinart, Rolle, keep going... we have drafted to our biggest need first, while trying to draft the BPA, there's a difference. The one time in recent memory that we drafted BPA, was Fitz when we already had Boldin.

In a perfect scenario, the best player available fits your biggest need.