CNNSI says Cards / Green close

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by TheCardFan
How many times are you going to toot this horn? Who really cares if Denny Green forced out Diamond? Successful people get power and in the NFL GM and Head Coach was the thing to do a few years back. You don't see that much anymore and in fact, like in Seattle, it can be taken back.

No big deal.

Who cares?
I do.
I want this organization to be "the best it can be". I don't care whether the players or coaches come from any particular school, conference, etc. I want the best possible people hired, available at the time and situation.

Some of your logic above seems not only contradictory, but counter-productive to your arguement. You say:
"Successful people get power and in the NFL GM and Head Coach was the thing to do a few years back. You don't see that much anymore and in fact, like in Seattle, it can be taken back."

To me that's like saying:
Well, yeah, its generally now acknowledged to be a dumb idea, but he did it before people said that...so that don't make it dumb."
:roll:

It cracks me up how many of the same people say out of one side of their mouth:
The Bidwill's are ignorant. Their history is a demonstration of that. They will never change. As long as they are here, nothing else matters." Then turn right around and say out the other side..... "So what does Dennis Green's history have to do with anything NOW. ?"

Amazing, Simply Amazing.

...and before anyone accuses me of just the reverse....ie saying "you claim the Bidwill's are changing the way they do things...yet you criticise Green for his history. What gives?"

Well, I would certainly hope he has. But at this point the Bidwill's have walked their talk. Green hasn't.

Some say "I'm not believing anything good about the Bidwill's until I see it happen"
.....well guess what Giant fans???

I say the same about Green. Because he hasn't done anything but talk, to this point. And that.....he is good at.

 

[Stronso]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr

I say the same about Green. Because he hasn't done anything but talk, to this point. And that.....he is good at. [/B]

He has done more than talk as evidenced by a very successful coaching record. I will take a couple of NFC championship games and throw in some division championships for good measure. That is a hell of alot better than 4-12 don't you think?

 

[D-Dogg]

Did you read these lines?

Green's deft touch with quarterbacks is a key factor to Arizona, which holds the No. 3 overall draft pick and figures to be in position to select one of the two top-rated collegiate quarterbacks, either Ole Miss standout Eli Manning or Miami of Ohio's Ben Roethlisberger.

Green's candidacy in Arizona is further enhanced by the fact that he is represented by IMG, who is considered the overwhelming favorite to represent Manning next spring. The giant sports representation firm also has as a client, Colts quarterback Peyton Manning, Eli's older brother. By hiring Green, the Cardinals figure to only enhance their chances of being able to sign Manning to the eight-digit contract that he'll be able to command.

Just as important, the potential pairing of Green and Manning is likely the best possible combination the Cardinals could hope for in their perennial quest to generate fan interest. Arizona annually ranks last in the NFL in ticket sales, and did not realize much of a bump in signing the league's all-time leading rusher, Emmitt Smith, in free agency last offseason.

Is that just posturing and conjecture or are there perhaps some rumblings of the Cardinals making a play for Eli?? Graves and Bidwill were at the Cotton Bowl, and maybe they are playing up the Eli card to Green? Dunno, but it is interesting that this reporter goes off for a bit on this angle.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Stronso
He has done more than talk as evidenced by a very successful coaching record. I will take a couple of NFC championship games and throw in some division championships for good measure. That is a hell of alot better than 4-12 don't you think?

Show me how the Minnesota Vikings won/lost record from 1992-2001 is the same thing as, and influences what the Arizona Cardinals record will be in say...the next 4 years?

Green did have some talented players....they can make any coach look good.
He also had some good assistants, but very few ever stayed around him long. Why do you think that is?

Some people have brought up what I feel is a legitimate question regarding Romeo Crennel.....How much of the Pat's defense is Crennel and how much of it is Bill Belichick?

When highly respected peers, like Foge Fazio, who've been in the trenches with Green, resigns...like he did in 2000, saying the team has been allowed to deteriorate to an almost hopeless situation....and time proves him right....then I think there's plenty of legitimate concern about just how great an over-all coach Green is.

 

[AzCards21]

Who gives a crap about how the power structure survives? Look at this:

1- Michael Bidwill
2- Rod Graves
3- Dennis Green

I don't give two cents about who is outplaying who in the front office. I want winning seasons for the rest of my life. If MB, RG or DG need to take a backs seat to make that happen what do I care? Those three need to work together if possible. If that doesn't work then one may have to go. I don't give a crap.

2004- 9-7 and the playoffs.
2005- 12-4 and the playoffs.
2006- 11-5 and the playoffs.

That's the pattern I want to see. I could care less who gets it done. If any of the three do anything to save power and yet continue losing then screw them. I want the viqueen game to be the last one we are out numbered fan wise in our own home. That is not an unreasonable request.

 

[Stronso]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Show me how the Minnesota Vikings won/lost record from 1992-2001 is the same thing as, and influences what the Arizona Cardinals record will be in say...the next 4 years?

Green did have some talented players....they can make any coach look good.
He also had some good assistants, but very few ever stayed around him long. Why do you think that is?

Some people have brought up what I feel is a legitimate question regarding Romeo Crennel.....How much of the Pat's defense is Crennel and how much of it is Bill Belichick?

When highly respected peers, like Foge Fazio, who've been in the trenches with Green, resigns...like he did in 2000, saying the team has been allowed to deteriorate to an almost hopeless situation....and time proves him right....then I think there's plenty of legitimate concern about just how great an over-all coach Green is.

The man has a successful NFL track record - and a far better track record than any other candidate out there. Secondly, his assistants were hired into other NFL head coaching gigs - I highly doubt that any of the previous Cards staff will have the words "Head Coach" next to their name anytime soon. As far as the players themselves - the Cards have some good players themselves - and need to get more - but I think the previous regime did not coach them properly to maximize their effectiveness and talent. BTW - the coaches here have made some pretty stupid judgements in who should be playing and who should not be.

Green's record speaks for itself - both good and bad. I want someone who is going to turn this team into a winner - I could frankly give a **** about everything else.

 

[CardinalChris]

I still think Graves has more faith from management than ANY head coach they bring in. Again, HC are realizing that it simply doesn't work, as are owners.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by imaCafan
If they want Green, they better go after him hard. This is the headline at sportsline.com:

Green apparent front-runner to be Raiders coach.

Al Davis interviewed Al Saunders yesterday.

 

[TheCardFan]

Originally posted by AzCards21
Who gives a crap about how the power structure survives? Look at this:

1- Michael Bidwill
2- Rod Graves
3- Dennis Green

I don't give two cents about who is outplaying who in the front office. I want winning seasons for the rest of my life. If MB, RG or DG need to take a backs seat to make that happen what do I care? Those three need to work together if possible. If that doesn't work then one may have to go. I don't give a crap.

2004- 9-7 and the playoffs.
2005- 12-4 and the playoffs.
2006- 11-5 and the playoffs.

That's the pattern I want to see. I could care less who gets it done. If any of the three do anything to save power and yet continue losing then screw them. I want the viqueen game to be the last one we are out numbered fan wise in our own home. That is not an unreasonable request.

That my friend is the bottom line...winning.

 

[AzCards21]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Green did have some talented players....they can make any coach look good.
He also had some good assistants, but very few ever stayed around him long. Why do you think that is?

You're starting to to reach Tango.

Players-Yes, He had talented players. The same players he drafted. The same players many avoided. Give him credit, He got it done.

Assistants-Maybe his assistants looked better under him than they really were? Is that why they were hired away or left? I remember many MN assistants being highly touted as the next up and comer. I don't believe any actually made it. Maybe DG is what made them peak.

Dennis Green may be just what we need.

 

[TheCardFan]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Ahhh yess....and in 1998 when it happened in Minnesota, Mr. Genius Green obviously felt differently about that.

In 1998, it was the thing to do. C'mon Tango...everyone's doing it!

The NFL like life goes through fads. GM/Head Coach was the thing to do. Leg warmers and parachute pants were the thing to do but I don't want to do them now and can't blame people who did back then.

"Whip it...whip it good"

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
Al Davis interviewed Al Saunders yesterday.

yeah...he sure did....by telephone.

....oh my sides are hurting.

 

[TheCardFan]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Who cares?
I do.
I want this organization to be "the best it can be". I don't care whether the players or coaches come from any particular school, conference, etc. I want the best possible people hired, available at the time and situation.


[/COLOR] :roll:

It cracks me up how many of the same people say out of one side of their mouth:
The Bidwill's are ignorant. Their history is a demonstration of that. They will never change. As long as they are here, nothing else matters." Then turn right around and say out the other side..... "So what does Dennis Green's history have to do with anything NOW. ?"

Amazing, Simply Amazing.

The basic difference between the Bidwills and Green is that Green has won. Sure you can be critical of him or his "politics" but the guy hires quality people, drafts very well, and wins alot of football games. I want that and let Graves and the Bidwills worry about the politics of the front office.

The only "amazing" thing is that you seem to care more about "politics" than winning records, quality drafts, and playoff games.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by AzCards21
Is that why they were hired away or left? I remember many MN assistants being highly touted as the next up and comer. I don't believe any actually made it. Maybe DG is what made them peak.

Brian Billick (Super Bowl winner. )
Tony Dungy
Mike Tice

That's three NFL head coaches that Green hired off the top of my head.

 

[CardinalChris]

Originally posted by AzCards21
You're starting to to reach Tango.

Players-Yes, He had talented players. The same players he drafted. The same players many avoided. Give him credit, He got it done.

Assistants-Maybe his assistants looked better under him than they really were? Is that why they were hired away or left? I remember many MN assistants being highly touted as the next up and comer. I don't believe any actually made it. Maybe DG is what made them peak.

Dennis Green may be just what we need.

Don't we always have talented players here (from our high draft picks) that underachieve and go elsewhere to perform? Heck, I'd love a coach to get those "talented players" to play to their talent.

 

[ajcardfan]

So, Tango, let me get this straight. You say the Bidwills have changed, and they are "walking their talk" and are proving they are competent. You also, to let me summarize, believe Green to be a overhyped ocach who sucked all of his success from his players and assistants like a Vampire bleeding a Romanian *****. Why in the hell are the Bidwills talking to Green again, and doing so, by all accounts, very seriously? If you've got it right, the Bidwills have a clue and Green sucks, they shouldn't have interviewed him AT ALL.

 

[AzCards21]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Brian Billick (Super Bowl winner. )
Tony Dungy
Mike Tice

That's three NFL head coaches that Green hired off the top of my head.

Well, I was wrong then. Sorry.

Not a bad group though, huh. I would love to be able to list those as past assistants to the Cards.

I think you're still on my side here Krang. That's a pretty sweet list of who was shoved out the door by Dennis Green. Yeah, Let's just pass on this loser.

 

[AzCards21]

Originally posted by CardinalChris
Don't we always have talented players here (from our high draft picks) that underachieve and go elsewhere to perform? Heck, I'd love a coach to get those "talented players" to play to their talent.

That's kinda my point.

How much better would Bryant, Pace, and heck let's go back to T.Jones be playing now? How much better would Shipp be? Why has F.Jones numbers dropped?

Put people in a good situation and they will succeed! Move them into positions they don't excell at and failure is about 99%.

 

[ajcardfan]

Also, a lot of those players who "would make any coach look good" in Minnesota were not having that said about them BEFORE they played for Green. Guys like Carter, Cunningham, George, Salisbury, et al, had been kind of washed out from other places. It wasn't like they were in huge demand. Cunningham had been out of the league running a business in Las Vegas that installed countertops. And, he was the QB when they went 15-1.

 

[Stronso]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
Also, a lot of those players who "would make any coach look good" in Minnesota were not having that said about them BEFORE they played for Green. Guys like Carter, Cunningham, George, Salisbury, et al, had been kind of washed out from other places. It wasn't like they were in huge demand. Cunningham had been out of the league running a business in Las Vegas that installed countertops. And, he was the QB when they went 15-1.

AMEN

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by Stronso
AMEN

 

[HookemCards]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
So, Tango, let me get this straight. You say the Bidwills have changed, and they are "walking their talk" and are proving they are competent. You also, to let me summarize, believe Green to be a overhyped ocach who sucked all of his success from his players and assistants like a Vampire bleeding a Romanian *****. Why in the hell are the Bidwills talking to Green again, and doing so, by all accounts, very seriously? If you've got it right, the Bidwills have a clue and Green sucks, they shouldn't have interviewed him AT ALL.

You sound like Tom Cruise in "A Few Good Men" when he is gets Jack Nicholson to admit he ordered the code red. LOL.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
So, Tango, let me get this straight. You say the Bidwills have changed, and they are "walking their talk" and are proving they are competent.
Yes I am !!!
There have been no overnight miracles, but I see definite progress over the past few years, especially this past one, up until now.

You also, to let me summarize, believe Green to be a overhyped ocach who sucked all of his success from his players and assistants like a Vampire bleeding a Romanian *****.
No, I didn't say that. You did. Summarization accuracy= Seriously lacking. You are grossly over-exaggerating, I can only guess...for effect. What I AM saying is that there are some very tangible red flags about just how great an effect his hiring might have, particularly, for the long term good of this team. And right now I consider Jim Fassel to be a much better option. In fact, I might even go so far as to say, I'd prefer Romeo Crennel over Green. If Green is the best option available, then fine, do what you gotta do. But as long as Fassel is available I consider him the best option. Like I said, should Fassel be eliminated, then I would still seriously consider Crennel as still possibly being a better overall option.

Why in the hell are the Bidwills talking to Green again, and doing so, by all accounts, very seriously? If you've got it right, the Bidwills have a clue and Green sucks, they shouldn't have interviewed him AT ALL.
Once more you resort to hyperbole and exaggeration and "put words in my mouth, that are nowhere close to anything I actuallly said.

 

[TheCardFan]

Originally posted by AzCards21
Well, I was wrong then. Sorry.

Not a bad group though, huh. I would love to be able to list those as past assistants to the Cards.

I think you're still on my side here Krang. That's a pretty sweet list of who was shoved out the door by Dennis Green. Yeah, Let's just pass on this loser.

I am not sure if your kidding or not (tongue in cheek and all) but these guys Billick, Dungy, and Tice were not pushed out the door by anyone...they were promoted to Head Coach.

That's success to have your people move onward and upward. Very much the same way Dennis Green and many others have done the same from Bill Walsh.

Did Bill Walsh force out Holmgren, Shannahan, Gruden, Grenn, and the others? I don't think so.

 

[Stronso]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr

So Tango - what are you saying? Clear it up for us please