CNNSI says Cards / Green close

[TheCardFan]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Regardless...Dennis Green has an eye for talent. Players and Coaches
Didn't he reach for Underwood?

Jeff...I am very surprised by that statement.

#29 overall and the 2nd of two #1's (Culpepper) and yes, it was a bad pick.

You are discounting the number of Pro Bowl players he did draft:

Ed McDaniel
Brad Johnson
Robert Smith
Gilbert Brown
Todd Steussie
Korey Stringer
Dwayne Rudd
Randy Moss
Daunte Culpepper
Chris Hovan.

I would take that draft history, even with Underwood.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Yeah, right, the pot calling the kettle black.

Certainly coaches will seriously consider offers that "advance" their careers. But neither is is uncommon for assistants to turn down HD offers to remain where they are, especially if they don't think the new place is a "step up".

Dungy left at the first offer that came his way. I never said Dungy "hated" Green or anything like it. But neither did he turn down any other offers to stay with him. You can try and put YOUR spin on that however much you want. I don't see YOU backing up any of your comments with anything other than your own "opinion".

Your arguments are getting more ridiculous by the moment.

Show me a situation where an assistant turned down a HC job to remain as an assistant, and I'll buy your argument somewhat.

 

[TheCardFan]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Yeah, right, the pot calling the kettle black.

But neither is is uncommon for assistants to turn down HD offers to remain where they are, especially if they don't think the new place is a "step up".

I don't see YOU backing up any of your comments with anything other than your own "opinion".

Give me a list of assistant coaches that have turned down NFL Head Coaching jobs. I might be able to think of one...Gary Kubiak. I don't know if he was officially offered a HC job but his name sure hasn't been mentioned lately.

It is very "uncommon"...it is rare.

If you don't see me backing up my comments then you aren't reading my posts very carefully. I have listed a number of Pro Bowl players Green has drafted, how his offense ranked in the NFL in his tenure, and the list of assistant coaches he had hired to his staff that went on to further success in the NFL.

Pretty clear and to the point.

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by D-Dogg
Underwood was an INTENSELY talented player, great, great talent. However, he was certifiably nuts. Green thought he could take the problem child and fix him...or at least use his talents on the field, similar to Randy. However, I don't think ANYONE in the league truly understood that Underwood was really, actually, not-joking-around-about-it crazy. And he was.

He had the talent of three men; too bad they were all living in his head together.

That's funny.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Brian Billick (Super Bowl winner. )
Tony Dungy
Mike Tice

That's three NFL head coaches that Green hired off the top of my head.

Looks like Green knows how to pick assistants. That is why we need someone with prior HC experience that is proven as a winner.

Winning is the only thing that counts.

 

[wierwolf]

I have been talking up Dennis Green al year. The man can win. He has had plenty of time as an ESPN analyst to analize this team and draw a plan of what needs to be done. People can change. the Bidwells are changing and I believe are now commited to putting out a winning product. Give the organization some credit. They know of his past and are still in love with this coach as they should be. They all have a good plan and seem to be on the same page. Of course I am sure they aren't going to agree on everything. But this could be a monumental team of management in NFL history if they could turn around the Arizona cardinals. I just don't see fassel that commited to the task. He may think so. I just don't think he could do it.
On the Manning thing. Don't forget they went to see Big Ben play as well. So I believe they were just scouting the two and getting a better view as to whom to draft with the number 3. Nothing more.

 

[JeffGollin]

Jeff...I am very surprised by that statement.

#29 overall and the 2nd of two #1's (Culpepper) and yes, it was a bad pick.
What I was alluding to was that Dennis wasn't adverse to going against the grain and occasionally he did come up with a clunker.

On balance, I'd agree he's a good evaluator of talent, but every once in a while he'd have me asking myself: "Why'd he do that?"

We often fall into the trap of overstating our case. Green is far from perfect just as Coach Mac was far from sucking at all aspects of coaching.

We've been burnt too often in the past to automatically annoint any incoming coach "King of the Universe."

Dennis has his strong points and his weak points (the strong seems to far outweigh the weak - at least we must hope so). But whether we hire Green, Fassel, Johnson, Crennel or, for that matter, Sgt. Hulka - all we can hope is that Rod and Michael exercise their best judgment, make the right choice and that the dude does well here.

Until then, no fearless forecasts. Only hope.

 

[TheCardFan]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Jeff...I am very surprised by that statement.

#29 overall and the 2nd of two #1's (Culpepper) and yes, it was a bad pick.
What I was alluding to was that Dennis wasn't adverse to going against the grain and occasionally he did come up with a clunker.

On balance, I'd agree he's a good evaluator of talent, but every once in a while he'd have me asking myself: "Why'd he do that?"

We often fall into the trap of overstating our case. Green is far from perfect just as Coach Mac was far from sucking at all aspects of coaching.

We've been burnt too often in the past to automatically annoint any incoming coach "King of the Universe."

Dennis has his strong points and his weak points (the strong seems to far outweigh the weak - at least we must hope so). But whether we hire Green, Fassel, Johnson, Crennel or, for that matter, Sgt. Hulka - all we can hope is that Rod and Michael exercise their best judgment, make the right choice and that the dude does well here.

Until then, no fearless forecasts. Only hope.

There's the Jeff we all know!

Very well said and very true. I am backing him and believe he is the perfect guy for the job (not that he is perfect) but if it's Fassell or someone else, I will still have hope that we will be better. IMO, Green gives them the best opportunity to win quickly and win consistantly.

 

[wierwolf]

True that!! And those are words to live by!!! We will have to patiently wait and see. Any of the 4 will be a good addition and improvement!! What if Romeo and Jim was interviewed for the DC job instead? I doubt it but who knows right?

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by TheCardFan
Give me a list of assitant coaches that have turned down NFL Head Coaching jobs. I might be able to think of one. It is very "uncommon"...it is rare.

If you don't see me backing up my comments then you aren't reading my posts very carefully. I have listed a number of Pro Bowl players Green has drafted, how his offense ranked in the NFL in his tenure, and the list of assistant coaches he had hired to his staff that went on to further success in the NFL.

Pretty clear and to the point.

Well, we can start with Dave McGinnis.
There ARE a number of othersl, but I'm not going to spend the time researching it just to play your little game. Granted its not an everyday event but it HAS happened. You want the proof....as Casey Stengel said: "YOU could look it up"...I'm not your errand boy. You are the one calling me out, I at least try to substantiate all my claims....you haven't shown that.
I may have mis-stated my point a little in that I intended to include coaches who interview for positions but are not hired.
THAT is a very, very common occurance.

Notice this excerpt from a 1996 Sporting News write-up about Dungy when he was hired in Tampa....where they had just gone through 13 consectutive losing seasons...and were not exactly considered a place that many coaches wanted any part of...
"When general manageer Rich McKay opened the search to replace the fired Sam Wyche last January, he origianally set his sights on coaching heavyweights Jimmy Johnson and Steve Spurrier. But Johnson took the Dolphins job after Don Shula retired and Spurrier opted to remain at the University of Florida.
McKay then went after Dungy, a veteran NFL assistant who had been a perenniel runner-up whe it came to head coaching jobs."

So Dungy had already been interviewing for other jobs, but just had never been chosen.
My point here, as it has been, is that Dungy was NOT a Dennis Green clone. He spent 4 years there, leaned some things from Green, but certainly had no inordinate loyalty to him, as such.


..and what "lists" that you posted are you referring to?
The Mike Tice, Brian Billick, Tony Dungy list?
That's already been covered in detail.
I've already posted a complete list of ALL the coaches that served under Green. You haven't shown squat.

Like I have posted previously Tyrone Willingham is the ONLY other assistant of Green's that could legitimately be called "a disciple of his" that "went on to further success", and that hasn't been in the NFL either.

Mike Tice hasn't proven diddly yet, even if you do consider him a Green "disciple".

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
You want the proof....as Casey Stengel said: "YOU could look it up"...I'm not your errand boy. You are the one calling me out, I at least try to substantiate all my claims....you haven't shown that.

This is total idiocy! You make a claim, fail to back it up with even an iota of proof, and turn around on the people asking for proof!

Zero credibility. Prove your point, don't just pull it out of your ass and expect us to believe it.

Fact: When given the opportunity, assistants jump at the opportunity to become a head coach.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
This is total idiocy! You make a claim, fail to back it up with even an iota of proof, and turn around on the people asking for proof!

Zero credibility. Prove your point, don't just pull it out of your ass and expect us to believe it.

Fact: When given the opportunity, assistants jump at the opportunity to become a head coach.

Sorry Krang, I'm not biting on your baiting.

I substantiate my claims as much or more than anyone posting on this board.

Some of you schoolboys, seem more adept at selective attention than anything. You ignore anything that doesn't fit YOUR takes, and simply regurgitate YOUR opinion.

Both Cardfan and your posts demonstrate that. YOU, post part of a quote of mine, yet edit out the part that says....I may have overstated my case in that regard.
There HAVE been assistants that have turned down HC jobs to reamain where they are. If you are calling me a liar then PROVE IT...don't just run off YOUR mouth. This is just another example of how many sometimes sidestep an issue by deflecting "the arguement" off on some tangential side note.

My point, and I can't believe you or some others, fail to see that, is NOT "how many coaches actually turned down promotions", but that Tony Dungy is NOT primarily a Dennis Green clone.
I think I have stated my case in that regard and tangibly backed up why I feel that way.

...which, once again, is more than I can say for some of you.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Sorry Krang, I'm not biting on your baiting.

I substantiate my claims as much or more than anyone posting on this board.

Some of you schoolboys, seem more adept at selective attention than anything. You ignore anything that doesn't fit YOUR takes, and simply regurgitate YOUR opinion.

Both Cardfan and your posts demonstrate that. YOU, post part of a quote of mine, yet edit out the part that says....I may have overstated my case in that regard.
There HAVE been assistants that have turned down HC jobs to reamain where they are. If you are calling me a liar then PROVE IT...don't just run off YOUR mouth. This is just another example of how many sometimes sidestep an issue by deflecting "the arguement" off on some tangential side note.

My point, and I can't believe you or some others, fail to see that, is NOT "how many coaches actually turned down promotions", but that Tony Dungy is NOT primarily a Dennis Green clone.
I think I have stated my case in that regard and tangibly backed up why I feel that way.

...which, once again, is more than I can say for some of you.

In the immortal words of your lover, Jake Plummer, who gives a rat's ass if Dungy was a Green disciple or not? Maybe you do, but the rest of us care that he made the right hire.

And again, you impotent, sad old man, you haven't given a lick of proof, by showing even a single incident of an assistant turning down a head coaching job. Not one.

Substantiate it. If it were true, you would have some proof of it. I didn't make that silly comment, so it isn't my job to proof it.

The fact is: Denny Green has had a lot of success in the NFL. He had 8 winning seasons out of 10. He hired successful assistants that went on to head coaching positions (two have had a lot of success: Billick and Dungy).

Your coaching lines articles (which I actually enjoyed) has deluded your thinking. It doesn't matter if Dungy learned from Knoll, from Schottenheimer, or hell, Peter Pan. What matters is that Green had the knowledge to make a great hire, something that our previous coach lacked.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
It doesn't matter if Dungy learned from Knoll, from Schottenheimer, or hell, Peter Pan. What matters is that Green had the knowledge to make a great hire, something that our previous coach lacked.

boomshakalaka!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
It doesn't matter if Dungy learned from Knoll, from Schottenheimer, or hell, Peter Pan. What matters is that Green had the knowledge to make a great hire, something that our previous coach lacked.

exactly!

 

[SweetD]

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
In the immortal words of your lover, Jake Plummer, who gives a rat's ass if Dungy was a Green disciple or not? Maybe you do, but the rest of us care that he made the right hire.

And again, you impotent, sad old man, well up yours too little boy! That attack is entirely uncalled for. you haven't given a lick of proof, by showing even a single incident of an assistant turning down a head coaching job. Not one.

Substantiate it. If it were true, you would have some proof of it. I didn't make that silly comment, so it isn't my job to proof it.
Wrong.....I did give one. Dave McGinnis. You just prove my point about only selective attention or focusing. Obviously you are pimping Green as much as some of you accuse me of doing the same with Fassel.

The fact is: Denny Green has had a lot of success in the NFL. He had 8 winning seasons out of 10. He hired successful assistants that went on to head coaching positions (two have had a lot of success: Billick and Dungy).
Yes...by your own admission 2. And that's "giving" you Dungy. In 10 years I don't call that a "model" by any means. As I have stated before, I beleive some of you may be "reaching" far more than any claims I have made.. So we disagree on whom we feel is best qualified between the two. I'm not trying to convince you to change YOUR mind. Give it a freaking rest !!!!
There's no need for your personal attacks.


Your coaching lines articles (which I actually enjoyed) has deluded your thinking. It doesn't matter if Dungy learned from Knoll, from Schottenheimer, or hell, Peter Pan. What matters is that Green had the knowledge to make a great hire, something that our previous coach lacked.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr

It was turned down due to the way chicago handled the situation. McGinnis felt disrespected as he had not told them he was accepting the job yet.

That is much different from declining the job b/c you want to stay an assistant. It just doesnt happen often at all and makes no sense! Thats like you turning down a chance to run Plummers bath...just aint gonna happen!

 

[TheCardFan]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Both Cardfan and your posts demonstrate that. YOU, post part of a quote of mine, yet edit out the part that says....I may have overstated my case in that regard.

Nevermind. You dug yourself a hole, couldn't climb out, and then started pointing the finger. Typical Tango.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Tango: well up yours too little boy! That attack is entirely uncalled for.

It is called for. If you weren't such a condescending prick all the time, I wouldn't be doing this. But I read your drivel all the time, and how you are unable to "play nice" (I call it that, because it looks like playground bs to me).

Tango: Wrong.....I did give one. Dave McGinnis. You just prove my point about only selective attention or focusing. Obviously you are pimping Green as much as some of you accuse me of doing the same with Fassel.

Completely true without context. Completely wrong WITH context.

McGinnis was about to accept the job (which totally destroys your lone example) but he hadn't quite agreed on all the stipulations. The Bears announced his hiring, and Mac was pissed because he hadn't totally agreed on the contract structure. So he turned them down, not because he didn't want to take the job, but because the Bears didn't handle the hiring correctly.

He shoots! He scores! Now....where's your proof Tango?


Tango: Yes...by your own admission 2. And that's "giving" you Dungy. In 10 years I don't call that a "model" by any means. As I have stated before, I beleive some of you may be "reaching" far more than any claims I have made..


The Cards obviously want him. And to call a coach who had 8 winning seasons reaching? Laughable!


Tango: So we disagree on whom we feel is best qualified between the two. I'm not trying to convince you to change YOUR mind. Give it a freaking rest !!!!
There's no need for your personal attacks.

Yes we do disagree, but you have been so thoroughly obnoxious through this entire thing, and have been such a jerk to so many people, that I've had enough of your crap.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by TheCardFan
Nevermind. You dug yourself a hole, couldn't climb out, and then started pointing the finger. Typical Tango.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!

 

[TheCardFan]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
..and what "lists" that you posted are you referring to?
The Mike Tice, Brian Billick, Tony Dungy list?
That's already been covered in detail.
I've already posted a complete list of ALL the coaches that served under Green. You haven't shown squat.

Uh...OK...I will say it again slowly....

"If you don't see me backing up my comments then you aren't reading my posts very carefully. I have listed a number of Pro Bowl players Green has drafted, how his offense ranked in the NFL in his tenure, and the list of assistant coaches he had hired to his staff that went on to further success in the NFL. "

Do the research, in your own words, you said that the effort should come from the one who doesn't agree. So, go back and look at my posts.

Pssst..I'll even give you a shortcut. Click on the link under one of my posts that says "search".

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!

Just my opinion, but I think this post would be more effective if it weren't all capitalized and didn't have exclamation points at the end.

I just think that it's more realistic to think of somebody sleeping through a post if the "zzzzz" were a little more soothing, so to speak.

For example;

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...



Sorry. Back to the discussion...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Just my opinion, but I think this post would be more effective if it weren't all capitalized and didn't have exclamation points at the end.

I just think that it's more realistic to think of somebody sleeping through a post if the "zzzzz" were a little more soothing, so to speak.

For example;

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...



Sorry. Back to the discussion...

maybe tango's mouth is full, so he snores . . .

 

[Ryanwb]

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
maybe tango's mouth is full, so he snores . . .

We all know what's in his mouth