Coaching question....

[Divide Et Impera]

Why can we never get a good, young, up-and-coming coach? I mean, look at Marvin Lewis, Jon Gruden (when he started in OAK), Bill Cowher (WAY back when) and more recently, Jim Mora, Sean Payton and Jack Del Rio. This is some good, young talent and they are quickly establishing themselves, changing their respective franchises fortunes and putting their stamp on the league. Why is it so impossible for us to find our guy?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Why can we never get a good, young, up-and-coming coach? I mean, look at Marvin Lewis, Jon Gruden (when he started in OAK), Bill Cowher (WAY back when) and more recently, Jim Mora, Sean Payton and Jack Del Rio. This is some good, young talent and they are quickly establishing themselves, changing their respective franchises fortunes and putting their stamp on the league. Why is it so impossible for us to find our guy?

good young coordinators don't want to kill their careers.

 

[clif]

Denny Green was the right call.. the results have just sucked. To be continued.....

 

[Cheesebeef]

and our FO has no clue what they're doing most of the time... seeriously, how the hell do you promote Coach Smack to HC after watching his defenses just get ripped apart for years?

 

[AZ Shocker]

Why can we never get a good, young, up-and-coming coach?

Please consider who the owners are. Your asking waaaaay too much grasshopper.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

good young coordinators don't want to kill their careers.

You really think Marvin Lewis would've declined this job? He was literally begging for a HC gig while leading elite defenses for years before the Bengals landed him and they were just as piss-poor shape as we were. He purged that horrid roster (including Takeo Spikes and Corey Dillon; who are not exactly Pete Kendall, Steve Bush, and LJ Shelton), got himself a franchise QB, and the rest has been history.

 

[AZ Shocker]

You have to have owners who know a thing or two about football for them to have any idea who to hire as a young up and comer. Hence why the Cardinals are always the first in line to get retreads (Buddy, Denny).

Actually...I don't think there was a line for either. lol

 

[conraddobler]

You have to have owners who know a thing or two about football for them to have any idea who to hire as a young up and comer. Hence why the Cardinals are always the first in line to get retreads (Buddy, Denny).

Actually...I don't think there was a line for either. lol

Theres so many places I could go with that but I won't.

 

[Rivercard]

You really think Marvin Lewis would've declined this job? He purged that horrid roster (including Takeo Spikes and Corey Dillon; who are not exactly Pete Kendall, Steve Bush, and LJ Shelton), got himself a franchise QB, and the rest has been history.

Marvin has assembled quite a collection of turdballs. The arrest sheet speaks for itself.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Marvin has assembled quite a collection of turdballs. The arrest sheet speaks for itself.

so does his won/loss record.

 

[Duckjake]

Tobin was a highly regarded DC when the Cards hired him. Colts fans on the old AOL boards said that we'd made a good hire. The Bidwill's hung him out to dry during and after the 1999 season when they didn't either fire him or give him an extension.

As a lame duck coach he lost the team and the result was the horrible 2000season and the equally awful McGinnis years. Tobin, as bland as he was, remains the only Cardinals HC to have won a playoff game in the Super Bowl era.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Marvin Lewis, I think, is the greatest example of what I am talking about. CIN has always been in the race to the bottom with the Cards and he turned tehm around nicely. Bill Belicheck is another fine example. Look at what he has done with the sorry Baltimore Browns even WITHOUT a QB. Gruden really put together a nice run, but at this point with TB, we have to wait and see if Gruden was just left with good rosters in OAK and TB, or is he really a coach?

This year, Sean Payton has NO at 3-0!!! Amazing! This team didn't even have a home until the 3rd week of the season! When will we finally get "our guy"?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Marvin Lewis, I think, is the greatest example of what I am talking about. CIN has always been in the race to the bottom with the Cards and he turned tehm around nicely. Bill Belicheck is another fine example. Look at what he has done with the sorry Baltimore Browns even WITHOUT a QB. Gruden really put together a nice run, but at this point with TB, we have to wait and see if Gruden was just left with good rosters in OAK and TB, or is he really a coach?

This year, Sean Payton has NO at 3-0!!! Amazing! This team didn't even have a home until the 3rd week of the season! When will we finally get "our guy"?

Belicheck = Patriots / Billick (sp?) = Ravens (Baltimore Browns)

 

[CardLogic]

Bill Belicheck is another fine example. Look at what he has done with the sorry Baltimore Browns even WITHOUT a QB.

Brian Billick...

 

[Divide Et Impera]

D'oh.

Correction noted, but the point remains....

 

[JeffGollin]

You're grasping at straws because you want to make a change (any change) in the Big Red's karma.

It's not a matter of young coach or experienced coach. It's choosing the right coach for a particular team at that particular moment. And that can vary.

- I'm beginning to wonder if Parcells (whom I admire) was right for the Dallas Football Zoo.

- Despite all the recent bickering, I like Coughlin's fit with the Giants - the personality of both coach and team seem to mesh well.

- I think Jim Fassell can win with the right franchise, but not with the Giants (who traditionally profile as more of a big, physical team best suited for Nov/Dec weather in the northeast).

- Sometimes a certain type of coaching personality is perfect for a specific phase in a team's development. Maybe a team needs a discipliarian. So you bring in a Buddy Ryan type to clean things up. But those guys only have a few years before their rap begins to get old and the players tune them out.

- Also, what about the front office? It might be OK to bring in a young guy if he has the support of solidly-grounded team management. But what happens if you bring a bright, new guy in who's over his head trying to cope with all the "big picture" (non X's & O's) aspects of coaching - i.e. recruiting FA's, baby-sitting "high maintenance stars, the cap, dealing with the media etc. If he has to "lead" management, he'll struggle (or even worse, implode).

My point: There are no rules. Management just needs to determine (a) what's needed and (b) who would be best to fill those needs.

 

[BigRedArk]

Could it be that another factor at play is the Cardinals reputation in the coaching fraternity? I. e..... that Bill Bidwill doesn't give his head coach all the support and resources that he will need to be successful and then is very quick to fire him? The word gets out on Bill among coaches and then it is slim pickings for him to choose from?

 

[PACardsFan]

With the new stadium & new revenue potential, the Cardinals will have an easier time attracting HC's in the future. The Cardinals need to spend more money on Coordinators down the road. Regardless of whether we turn this season around or not, I don't think DG wants to coach but another couple years

 

[Russ Smith]

Tobin was a highly regarded DC when the Cards hired him. Colts fans on the old AOL boards said that we'd made a good hire. The Bidwill's hung him out to dry during and after the 1999 season when they didn't either fire him or give him an extension.

As a lame duck coach he lost the team and the result was the horrible 2000season and the equally awful McGinnis years. Tobin, as bland as he was, remains the only Cardinals HC to have won a playoff game in the Super Bowl era.

True and one of the biggest problems was that after that 98 season they let key free agents go and because injuries decimated the DL, we had a huge problem because we were using draft picks to replace FA losses on offense and didn't use draft picks on the DL hoping those guys would get healthy, but none of Wadsworth, Swann or Smith ever did. Tobin wasn't a world beater but he was a markedly better coach than Mac ever was but when the team knows you're a lame duck they don't respond. I will say this, Tobin made a glaring error in '99 not benching Jake when his hand injury was clearly impacting his play, I think he could have really changed his fate there because he would have been able to rest Jake when he clearly needed it and he would have had the "Excuse" that winning with Brown at QB wasn't easy.

 

[Duckjake]

I think he could have really changed his fate there because he would have been able to rest Jake when he clearly needed it and he would have had the "Excuse" that winning with Brown at QB wasn't easy.

Probably right on the money. That year Jake had 9 TD passes and 24 INT's and Brown was 2 and 6. 11TD's and 30 INT's! And they still were at .500 12 games into the season.

 

[Russ Smith]

Probably right on the money. That year Jake had 9 TD passes and 24 INT's and Brown was 2 and 6. 11TD's and 30 INT's! And they still were at .500 12 games into the season.

Yep, I really think if he simply benched Jake he could have either gone back to Jake later in the year when he'd healed(he wound up getting hurt even worse) or he could have at least had a viable reason for losing that couldn't be held against him. By continuing to play Jake and assert over and over that Jake was NOT injured(which Jake said too), he painted himself into a corner.

If the guy is truly healthy and we just paid all that money for him, and he's playing this poorly, then you as coach have to come up with something to improve his play. You're not going to dump a 3rd year Qb you just gave a huge contract to so the obvious answer is dump the coach. I always thought Tobin never felt he had the job security to bench Jake but in hindsight it might have saved his job and saved us fans a few years of Macage.