Colangelo only hires family GM's Why?

[Dave64]

He hired his son to run the Suns and Joe Jr. to run the D-Backs, knowing that Joe Jr. would be one of the faces of the team. I like JC, but the next GM he hires needs to have no blood connections!

 

[Ryanwb]

nepotism rules

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

BC is defintiely in the top 33% of GMs in the league.....

 

[Dave64]

nepotism rules if it results in winning. Brian Colangelo has been below average at best as a GM and we all know how much Joe Jr. sucks. When they fired BB, it was ironic that Jr. was in on the press conference because there should have been a press conference on his firing. It is nice to have daddy in back pocket! LOL

 

[Dave64]

BC is defintiely in the top 33% of GMs in the league.....

----------------

This comment is laughable! What has ever done to deserve the top 33%? I am waiting inpatiently for your evidence!

 

[scotsman13]

you know when it is your money that pays for something you can do whatever the heck you wish. BC is a good gm dont fool yourself into believing otherwise. JC still runs most of the show and it is very hard to fault a 4 time exe of the year and a person that is in the hall of fame. you may not like him but he hasnt done a poor job like some of the other gms out there. what has thomas done? how about riley? or etc. name one gm that has done a long term better job?

 

[fordronken]

you know when it is your money that pays for something you can do whatever the heck you wish. BC is a good gm dont fool yourself into believing otherwise. JC still runs most of the show and it is very hard to fault a 4 time exe of the year and a person that is in the hall of fame. you may not like him but he hasnt done a poor job like some of the other gms out there. what has thomas done? how about riley? or etc. name one gm that has done a long term better job?

How long term? Undeniably, you could say Jerry West. Also, Donnie Walsh and Joe Dumars have done very well. However, I do agree. Brian Colangelo is not nearly the stiif everyone makes him out to be.

 

[scotsman13]

How long term? Undeniably, you could say Jerry West. Also, Donnie Walsh and Joe Dumars have done very well. However, I do agree. Brian Colangelo is not nearly the stiif everyone makes him out to be.

donnie walsh isnt the gm he is the president of the pacers, right now bird is the gm. west is good but one year in the playoffs with the grizz doesnt make him the best gm. if you look at the team he has put together i wouldnt trade the suns line up for his. right now i would say that dumars is the best gm in the nba. he has put together a very good team. i dont know how long they will last as nba champions. but the point behind all of this is brian is a very good gm. he may not be the best but he is one of the better ones by far.

 

[Dave64]

BC is and never will be as good as JC!

 

[scotsman13]

BC is and never will be as good as JC!

never is a very long time done you think that you should let him get out from under his fathers shadow before you say that. JC will be gone from this team in 3 years. BC will still be the gm.

dont you think it says something that kerr working with saver went to BC and ask him to be part of the ownership group and stay on as the GM? if he was as bad as you think dont you think someone who has been around as much as kerr would have told saver to get rid of him?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Dave, can you name 10 teams that are better run than the Suns?

Teams run worse:

Clips
GS
Portland
Seattle
Houston
Dallas
Washington
Orlando
Atlanta
Boston
Nets
Knicks
Sixers
Hornets
Cavs
Raptors




Minny only gets by because of last summer, before that they sucked.
Sac is getting credit for a few years back, but they dont look so hot now.
Bulls may be able to turn it around.
Heat are left off only because they got Shaq. Riley surely isn't a great GM though.
This summer will make or break the Jazz. They through a lot of money on some question marks.
Lakers should most likely be below the suns too.


Only definites:

Pacers
Pistons
Spurs
Grizz
Nuggets (I think the suns are pretty close with the nuggets)

 

[Dave64]

My original point was simply to make a judgment on BC's talent as a GM. I don't even care how he compares to others. The Suns took a serious turn for the worse soon after JC gave the reigns to BC. I think the Suns would probably be better off with Keer as GM.

 

[fordronken]

donnie walsh isnt the gm he is the president of the pacers, right now bird is the gm. west is good but one year in the playoffs with the grizz doesnt make him the best gm. if you look at the team he has put together i wouldnt trade the suns line up for his. right now i would say that dumars is the best gm in the nba. he has put together a very good team. i dont know how long they will last as nba champions. but the point behind all of this is brian is a very good gm. he may not be the best but he is one of the better ones by far.

Don't say you are looking long term and then say Jerry West only did so much with the Grizzlies thus far. First off, what he's accomplished with the Grizzlies(an enormous joke before he got there) is remarkable. Also, if you look long term, as you claim you'd like to, you may want to take a gander at a team called the Los Angeles Lakers. They did okay while he was in charge. BC is a good GM, almost certainly in the top half of the league, but to say he's not as good as Colangelo because you wouldn't trade their current teams is ludicrous. I would rather have last year's Lakers than last year's Grizzlies, but there is no way in hell that it makes Kupchak a better GM.

 

[SunsTzu]

My original point was simply to make a judgment on BC's talent as a GM. I don't even care how he compares to others.

Then why did you say:

This comment is laughable! What has ever done to deserve the top 33%? I am waiting inpatiently for your evidence!

Only definites:

Pacers
Pistons
Spurs
Grizz
Nuggets

Grizz have made some good moves via trades but have had terrible drafts under West IMO. Kiki did a good job of clearing cap space to sign FA but again Denver has had weak drafts(Melo at 3 was a no brainer).

 

[yotes1921]

Melo at 2 would have been better. I still don't know how the Pistons screwed that one up

 

[Dave64]

I agree. Taking Darko over Melo was a joke!

 

[George O'Brien]

It is unfair to dump on BC when something goes wrong, but give JC credit when they go right.

I could make a case that they made a series of terrible decisionsin the late '90's that doomed the team to mediocrity for years. It wasn't that they were all stupid decisions, it is just that they didn't work:

Marley for Hot Rod
Signing Googs
Signing Hardaway
Signing Longley

Some of the other sideways trades that sent away Nash, Finley, etc. could be viewed as mistakes or not depending on how you look at them. The trade of Barkley was necessary, but what they got was crap.

If you asked me what I thought of BC after things fell apart, I'd say he should be fired. But in the past few years I feel they have done a decent job of working their way out of the mess they got into. Maybe BC got smarter, learned from his mistakes, or just got luckier than in the late 90's. But I'm not sure there are many GM's who could have done better.

Who is the best GM? I think Jerry West is the best although his drafting has puzzled me. Signing Posey, trading for getting Wells and Miller, etc. have been brilliant.

Dumars may be brilliant or he may just be lucky. West has a long track record of success whereas Dumas has hasn't. As an example of luck, Dumars does not get Sheed Wallace if Boston doesn't take Chucky Atkins. Still, he has made a series of great moves and deserves a lot of credit.

My conclusion: If you can hire Jerry West - do it. If not, don't worry about it.

 

[BC867]

nepotism rules

Every time there are player moves, Jerry is in the limelight. He simply does not want to relinquish control of the Suns or D'backs until he is forced to.

So he gives himself a higher title and chooses inexperienced yes-men as GM. Joe, Jr., was an attorney and players' agent. That was the resume he brought to the "GM" job. Bryan was Jerry's son, with no experience.

In actuality, Jerry is still "GM" of both teams, and their GM's would be called Assistant GM's on other teams.

Nepotism is how it happens. Control is why it happens.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Every time there are player moves, Jerry is in the limelight. He simply does not want to relinquish control of the Suns or D'backs until he is forced to.

So he gives himself a higher title and chooses inexperienced yes-men as GM. Joe, Jr., was an attorney and players' agent. That was the resume he brought to the "GM" job. Bryan was Jerry's son, with no experience.

In actuality, Jerry is still "GM" of both teams, and their GM's would be called Assistant GM's on other teams.

Nepotism is how it happens. Control is why it happens.

Somehow I knew you would chime in on this one BC.

OK, I'll bite. How is Joe Jr. related to JC? Usually for nepotism, you assume some sort of family relationship. Unless I missed something.

 

[Dave64]

JC and Joe Sr. are buddies. JC hired his buddy's son, who had no track record that warranted a GM spot.

 

[JCSunsfan]

JC knows alot of people. What's your indication that they are good buddies?
And if they are, does that mean that he should eliminate all the family members of all the people he calls friends?

It is silly to think that Jerry Colangelo is about anything other than winning. Certainly he has to keep a franchise afloat financially, but over the years he has demonstrated a passion for winning time and time again.

For those who want to rip on Joe Jr. now because the D-backs are losing, you make me laugh. This guy put together a championship team. They won a world series in their 3rd year in existence.

Sheesh.

 

[scotsman13]

Don't say you are looking long term and then say Jerry West only did so much with the Grizzlies thus far. First off, what he's accomplished with the Grizzlies(an enormous joke before he got there) is remarkable. Also, if you look long term, as you claim you'd like to, you may want to take a gander at a team called the Los Angeles Lakers. They did okay while he was in charge. BC is a good GM, almost certainly in the top half of the league, but to say he's not as good as Colangelo because you wouldn't trade their current teams is ludicrous. I would rather have last year's Lakers than last year's Grizzlies, but there is no way in hell that it makes Kupchak a better GM.

i dont give jerry west all of the credit for the lakers because the city and team name gets some of that. and right now jerry was has a team loaded with wing players, one point guard who has improved but still has a lot of work to go before he is something and a power forward who cant guard a door but is a very hard worker and is the team star player.

i look at more then does the team make the playoffs, i look at how well the team is build for the roles. these can be moved around a little but for the most part the closer to the roles the better the team does as a team.

-center low post, shoot blocker and rebounding.
-power forward mid range, rebounding and some toughness
-small forward mid to long range shooting and good defense
-shooting guard long range and movement without the ball, second ball handling respondabilities and defense.
-point guard outside shooting, setting up the play and getting the ball where it needs to be, making others better. defense, ability to pressure the ball.

does it have a post player? if it does have a post player then does it have players around to help open up and space the floor for the post player. does the team have a star player? if so does the offense go to the strenght of the team (i.e. clements came into dallas and wanted kidd to run the triangle offense.)

for the suns their weakness up until the signing of nash has been solid outside shooting and inside defense around the post. suns have been lucky that they have both amare and marion as solid shooting blocker but they do need to strenghen the defense on the inside.

it is the GM's reponsability to bring all the pieces together on the floor for the coach. west has done a very good job in memphis but they have 2 many wing player(small forward and shooting guard) and not enought player to fill the other needs on the team.

 

[George O'Brien]

Memphis was not completely healthy going into the playoffs and the Spurs could have easily gone to the finals (one lucky shot and things might have been different). The fact that they went from a joke to a solid playoff team that quickly was incredible.

That being said, I do not see the Grizzlies getting to the second round without some changes. I would not discount a deal for Dampier yet, which would solve some of their problems. But in any case, they have a lot of valuable middle priced pieces that can be used for trades.

But at this point, you are right. This is not an elite team yet.

 

[Gaddabout]

west is good but one year in the playoffs with the grizz doesnt make him the best gm. if you look at the team he has put together i wouldnt trade the suns line up for his.

Jerry West designed some of the best teams in history with the Lakers. No one had the balls to project Kobe Bryant's brilliance out of high school like West, who traded two moderately valued players for the right to pick the teenager. He was a genius with the cap.

If West never took the Memphis job, he'd still be a HOF GM. The fact he's had some success with what was a horrible situation only lends credibility to the statement he's the best active GM in the biz. That org was near folding beneath disastrous deals (can you say Big Country?) in Vancouver, and the move to Memphis only delayed what should have been their inevitable financial collapse. He made them competitive in a hurry.

That said, Bryan has done a B+ job and should be mentioned among the upper tier of GMs in the league. This is the first off-season he's had much cap leverage, and like his father before him, he started the job answering to a cabal of investors that should leave the basketball biz to the basketball people. When he's allowed to make decisions with his staff on basketball alone, he will prove to be every bit as innovative and deserving of respect as his father.

 

[George O'Brien]

BC's only failing is not listening to ME. I'd have set him right.