Collins

[Krangodnzr]

I am. I thought he had bustolla written all over him. Hopefully he'll eventually convince me otherwise.

Bro you thought pretty much every move the Cardinals made this offseason was terrible. You've literally been wrong about pretty much EVERYTHING other than Collins so far.

And I'm pretty confident you'll be wrong on Collins too LOL.

Hicks has had a pretty good season for the most part and Collins has had some real good plays on film, but he's likely out of place too often so he's not playing right now.

 

[Stout]

Bro you thought pretty much every move the Cardinals made this offseason was terrible. You've literally been wrong about pretty much EVERYTHING other than Collins so far.

And I'm pretty confident you'll be wrong on Collins too LOL.

Hicks has had a pretty good season for the most part and Collins has had some real good plays on film, but he's likely out of place too often so he's not playing right now.

I'd love to be wrong about Collins. Hicks sucked out loud the first 3 or 4 games but, credit to him, the impact of his glacial slowness has been mitigated in this defense. I was bang-on on Edmonds not being durable enough to hold up as the main guy. But yeah, as much doom and gloom as I slung around, I had to be wrong at a fair clip for us to be 9-2. Fair play.

None of that means Collins will amount to a hill of beans. I hope you're not trying to use my opinion as some kind of measurement that he'll turn out to be good? Not a gorram thing thus far his rookie year to show Collins will be anything.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'd love to be wrong about Collins. Hicks sucked out loud the first 3 or 4 games but, credit to him, the impact of his glacial slowness has been mitigated in this defense. I was bang-on on Edmonds not being durable enough to hold up as the main guy. But yeah, as much doom and gloom as I slung around, I had to be wrong at a fair clip for us to be 9-2. Fair play.

None of that means Collins will amount to a hill of beans. I hope you're not trying to use my opinion as some kind of measurement that he'll turn out to be good? Not a gorram thing thus far his rookie year to show Collins will be anything.

I think from the few plays I've seen, he's looked good....that's why most of us are actually PUZZLED he isn't playing, because he has LOOKED really good.

But football is more than just looks. You'd rather have a slow guy who is always in the right spot than a fast guy who is never.

 

[Chopper0080]

I still like Zaven’s ceiling more than Isaiah’s. Isaiah has been solid, nowhere near All-Pro, though. I think Zaven has the potential for that, but obviously, injuries can’t get in the way.

You really need a more creative DC than what we have to unlock these two players.

 

[ajcardfan]

You really need a more creative DC than what we have to unlock these two players.

I think it might be a good idea to mostly give up MLB for the season and put Zaven in Gradecks role. One of his assets out of college was he could pressure off the edge. So why not try him? He can get no sacks as good as Gardeck can.

 

[Stout]

I think from the few plays I've seen, he's looked good....that's why most of us are actually PUZZLED he isn't playing, because he has LOOKED really good.

But football is more than just looks. You'd rather have a slow guy who is always in the right spot than a fast guy who is never.

He has? I think this is revisionist history. I don't think anybody was reacting with any wows, holy ishs, etc, to his playing time. In the very low handful of plays we've seen, he's been okay at best. He's a rookie, so that in and of itself isn't alarming. Looked really good? I don't see it.

Unless your all caps of looked means to say he's athletic only? Perhaps I misread your point.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Fwiw, I heard hicks say in an interview that Collins was the smartest rookie he’s ever been around. I’m not sure if that applied only to linebackers or not but, either way, it’s at least something positive.

 

[Card'em]

He has? I think this is revisionist history. I don't think anybody was reacting with any wows, holy ishs, etc, to his playing time. In the very low handful of plays we've seen, he's been okay at best. He's a rookie, so that in and of itself isn't alarming. Looked really good? I don't see it.

Unless your all caps of looked means to say he's athletic only? Perhaps I misread your point.

In the game action available for Collins, I see athletic ability and linebacking instincts. You don't. Maybe my talent recognition is better than yours, maybe not. One of us is right and one of us is wrong. That's what makes horseracing. Stay tuned.

 

[Krangodnzr]

In the game action available for Collins, I see athletic ability and linebacking instincts. You don't. Maybe my talent recognition is better than yours, maybe not. One of us is right and one of us is wrong. That's what makes horseracing. Stay tuned.

Yeah @Stout is just being ridiculous. Collins has made some nice plays.

There is a reason so many are flummoxed by him not playing: he has looked good. @Stout hasn't liked Collins since before he played a down.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He has? I think this is revisionist history. I don't think anybody was reacting with any wows, holy ishs, etc, to his playing time. In the very low handful of plays we've seen, he's been okay at best. He's a rookie, so that in and of itself isn't alarming. Looked really good? I don't see it.

Unless your all caps of looked means to say he's athletic only? Perhaps I misread your point.

The all caps is for emphasis.

There is a reason PFF has given him high grades but he isn't playing. To a person just watching he has looked good, which you dispute and are kind of on your own island of self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Stout]

Yeah @Stout is just being ridiculous. Collins has made some nice plays.

There is a reason so many are flummoxed by him not playing: he has looked good. @Stout hasn't liked Collins since before he played a down.

Ah, so Krang wants to sling insults. Happens on occasion. Have at it.

You can quote the malleable PFF stats all you want. Go ahead, tell me Collins is already better than Simmons. I need a good laugh. I've seen nothing at all that tells me Collins is a future starter yet, let alone a star. A handful--literally, given the lack of snaps--of decent plays isn't even close to a body of work. Or, if it is, then you must think Isabella is a star, because he's shown way more than Collins. He flashed for a few plays. That's the key--a few.

Nope, I haven't liked Collins since the draft, but I do change my mind on players when they prove themselves. I loathed the Humphries pick for quite a while, yet changed my mind completely. So, Hump offers hope for Collins, that showing little or nothing initially isn't the death knell of a player's career. And boy howdy, I've been wrong on draft picks before (*cough cough* Rosen *cough cough*). Hopefully I'll be wrong on Collins next year and beyond, too. As of now, he's shown zilch.

 

[Stout]

Yeah @Stout is just being ridiculous. Collins has made some nice plays.

There is a reason so many are flummoxed by him not playing: he has looked good. @Stout hasn't liked Collins since before he played a down.

People were flummoxed Simmons wasn't playing; people are wondering what's wrong with Collins.

 

[Chopper0080]

For those who wonder why Collins is struggling, look at the situations Vance puts his LBs in. Simmons vs CMC one on one and having Simmons drop into zone rather than attack the RB out of the backfield. Take away the curl and dig routes and then come up and tackle CMC in open space.

Hicks, go cover Kittle one on one.

Collins, cover the dive but then run down and tackle Cam Newton near the goal line.

These double responsibilities he puts on his LBs is why his scheme is so complicated. If this then do this, but then if not, go do this as well. Requires a lot of in-the-moment diagnostics and reaction from players which doesn't even include deception created by the offense.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ah, so Krang wants to sling insults. Happens on occasion. Have at it.

Not insulting you. Just saying you are BEING ridiculous.

You can quote the malleable PFF stats all you want. Go ahead, tell me Collins is already better than Simmons. I need a good laugh.

words in my mouth. Academically honest?

I dont think he is. Is film looks good, but anyone who really understands football knows that unless you are part of the team, its hard to know individual assignments.

I've seen nothing at all that tells me Collins is a future starter yet, let alone a star. A handful--literally, given the lack of snaps--of decent plays isn't even close to a body of work. Or, if it is, then you must think Isabella is a star, because he's shown way more than Collins. He flashed for a few plays. That's the key--a few.

This topic was beat up quite a bit in the early weeks of the season. Nearly unanimously, the board thought that Collins looked better than Hicks. You're one of the lone dissenters.

Cool story on Isabella, but the Cardinals have an ILB who is playing at what they view as a high level in Hicks so Collins isn't net negative Isabella was.

Nope, I haven't liked Collins since the draft, but I do change my mind on players when they prove themselves. I loathed the Humphries pick for quite a while, yet changed my mind completely.

I think Collins can be a very good player but we have all seen "can't miss" guys flame out.

So, Hump offers hope for Collins, that showing little or nothing initially isn't the death knell of a player's career. And boy howdy, I've been wrong on draft picks before (*cough cough* Rosen *cough cough*). Hopefully I'll be wrong on Collins next year and beyond, too. As of now, he's shown zilch.

I wouldn't say he's shown zilch. He just hasn't shown he is consistent yet.

 

[Stout]

On Hicks and Collins in the first few games, @Krangthebrain, we can agree. This was a whole lot less to do with how Collins was playing and a lot to do with how Hicks played like an absolute donkey early. Heck, even for a few games after that, Hicks wasn't very good.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Man Micah parsons is so good. I wish Collins was a fraction of what parsons is.

 

[PACardsFan]

For those who wonder why Collins is struggling, look at the situations Vance puts his LBs in. Simmons vs CMC one on one and having Simmons drop into zone rather than attack the RB out of the backfield. Take away the curl and dig routes and then come up and tackle CMC in open space.

Hicks, go cover Kittle one on one.

Collins, cover the dive but then run down and tackle Cam Newton near the goal line.

These double responsibilities he puts on his LBs is why his scheme is so complicated. If this then do this, but then if not, go do this as well. Requires a lot of in-the-moment diagnostics and reaction from players which doesn't even include deception created by the offense.

Exactly why I will never be a fan of Vance Joseph.

 

[PACardsFan]

Man Micah parsons is so good. I wish Collins was a fraction of what parsons is.

You can thank VJ for that. If Collins played in the Dallas scheme, he’d look much better.

 

[QuebecCard]

You can thank VJ for that. If Collins played in the Dallas scheme, he’d look much better.

We play a 3-4.

Dallas plays a 4-3.

Cards #4: 202 pts against
Cowgirls #17: 263 pts against

 

[Garthshort]

Quebec, please stop confusing us with facts.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

For those who wonder why Collins is struggling, look at the situations Vance puts his LBs in. Simmons vs CMC one on one and having Simmons drop into zone rather than attack the RB out of the backfield. Take away the curl and dig routes and then come up and tackle CMC in open space.

Hicks, go cover Kittle one on one.

Collins, cover the dive but then run down and tackle Cam Newton near the goal line.

These double responsibilities he puts on his LBs is why his scheme is so complicated. If this then do this, but then if not, go do this as well. Requires a lot of in-the-moment diagnostics and reaction from players which doesn't even include deception created by the offense.

as someone who played middle backer for 9 years, what you are describing is called Football. "double responsibilities" exist on every play for every position.

lets take what is seemingly the most simple assignment. A cornerback in man coverage

you cant just stare at your man and chase him. better check LOS and backfield, could be a run your way and you cant run 40 yards downfield with the receiver on a fake go-route. Corners who show that on film will be met with fake go-routes... most NFL corners dont show that on film so they are met with blocking receivers... but you for sure still see it in the NFL but much more common in college/HS

Vance is a good DC chopp... He's not great but definitely good.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

If you guys want clarity on how Collins will likely progress just go see the Simmons thread from last year.

Substitute shoulder injury for no training camp due to Covid and its the same deal. Collins will be fine, likely flash back half of season if shoulder is healthy, and should be an above average NFL linebacker next year

 

[AZman5103]

I see know reason why Collins can't be better than Hicks next year. I know that isn't a hugely high bar, but Hicks has been our starting MLB for a couple seasons now...so saying he should be an upgrade...thats a good thing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You can thank VJ for that. If Collins played in the Dallas scheme, he’d look much better.

Perhaps. We likely won’t ever know. All I do know is that parson’s is a wrecking machine.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We play a 3-4.

Dallas plays a 4-3.

Cards #4: 202 pts against
Cowgirls #17: 263 pts against

What do the number of points scored against each team have to do with comparing Collins to parsons?!?