Compensation for Budenholzer?

[AzStevenCal]

I think 10 is lowballing it though cheese. Ayton would really balance this team out. I mean we had f'n Chandler , Len, and spineless Bender holding down the middle. And half the team MIA

I think a healthy Suns team, even without the top draft pick, probably wins close to 30 games. That's assuming we re-sign Payton or find another veteran PG. But I don't see Ayton playing a big role in our success. He's not a finished product, too many holes in his game to expect instant stardom IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I certainly thought it was ludicrous. Here I am reluctant to give them the 59th pick in the draft and I see them talking about our number 1 plus the 16 or the future Miami unprotected pick.

they're drinking drano.

 

[pokerface]

I think a healthy Suns team, even without the top draft pick, probably wins close to 30 games. That's assuming we re-sign Payton or find another veteran PG. But I don't see Ayton playing a big role in our success. He's not a finished product, too many holes in his game to expect instant stardom IMO.

Really?

I don't think we can even be nearly this bad again. I think Jackson is going to give a more solid season (instead of half a season) Booker missed a lot of games, maybe Chriss or Bender give us more. A new coach could add a few wins.

I know there are a lot of ifs but it seemed EVERYTHING worked against us this season. Something has to give somewhere.

 

[GatorAZ]

Gambo tweeted he wants the MIL job.

 

[Hoop Head]

They kept interviewing other people. I think that was the hurdle. If they liked him, they should have hired him then and there. Triano should have been interviewed immediately after the season.

That's my take. I am not going to assume it was about money.

Rather than start screaming about the sky falling I'll hold off and see what comes of this and where Bud ends up, if he leaves Atlanta. If he goes to Milwaukee for their 1st? I'm fine with the Suns passing. They don't need to lose a 1st round pick for a coach, especially one who only won 25 games last year. I know he's done much better than that but that doesn't change his record last season.

I think JCSunsfan could be onto something though. Perhaps Bud was impatient because the Suns decided to see through the other interviews they had scheduled rather than offering him a deal right away. If they did have meetings set with other potential coaches and they cancelled them I'm sure people here would bash McD for handling that poorly. The Suns are in a bit of a no-win situation at the moment. When they do name their coaching hire is when they should be judged, not when 1 candidate no one thought was an option a little over a week ago is no longer an option, again.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Rather than start screaming about the sky falling I'll hold off and see what comes of this and where Bud ends up, if he leaves Atlanta. If he goes to Milwaukee for their 1st? I'm fine with the Suns passing. They don't need to lose a 1st round pick for a coach, especially one who only won 25 games last year. I know he's done much better than that but that doesn't change his record last season.

I think JCSunsfan could be onto something though. Perhaps Bud was impatient because the Suns decided to see through the other interviews they had scheduled rather than offering him a deal right away. If they did have meetings set with other potential coaches and they cancelled them I'm sure people here would bash McD for handling that poorly. The Suns are in a bit of a no-win situation at the moment. When they do name their coaching hire is when they should be judged, not when 1 candidate no one thought was an option a little over a week ago is no longer an option, again.

okay... so, should we just shut down this thread until they hire their new coach since we apparently can't judge anything that happens with the coaching search until then?

 

[Hoop Head]

okay... so, should we just shut down this thread until they hire their new coach since we apparently can't judge anything that happens with the coaching search until then?

Are you really going to revert back to the whiny dick you were for most of the season? I said how I feel about the situation with Budenholzer, that's it. Did I tell you how you should feel? No.

In the other thread I answered a question that someone else asked about 4 coaching candidates and I put them in the order I would prefer them, but that wasn't good enough for you. Apparently that question should have been ignored entirely or answered by throwing new names into the mix. All I did was answer that question, it wasn't even posed by you, but I guess I shouldn't have done that.

Quit replying to every post I make picking it apart. I'm not telling anyone else how to think, I'm only giving my opinion based on information available but apparently that isn't good enough for you.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Really?

I don't think we can even be nearly this bad again. I think Jackson is going to give a more solid season (instead of half a season) Booker missed a lot of games, maybe Chriss or Bender give us more. A new coach could add a few wins.

I know there are a lot of ifs but it seemed EVERYTHING worked against us this season. Something has to give somewhere.

Maybe I didn't say it well.

I think we win close to 30 games without adding anyone that wasn't on our roster at the end of the season as long as we have decent health. Hopefully, a new coach, a top draft pick and a solid bench addition or two and we'll be in 35 win territory, maybe even join the 40 club. I just don't believe that Ayton will be the big reason for that improvement. Out of the gate, he'll help us and he'll hurt us and we will probably argue over whether he's been a net plus or minus.

 

[pokerface]

Maybe I didn't say it well.

I think we win close to 30 games without adding anyone that wasn't on our roster at the end of the season as long as we have decent health. Hopefully, a new coach, a top draft pick and a solid bench addition or two and we'll be in 35 win territory, maybe even join the 40 club. I just don't believe that Ayton will be the big reason for that improvement. Out of the gate, he'll help us and he'll hurt us and we will probably argue over whether he's been a net plus or minus.

Ok. That makes more sense.

I just think there are a lot of things that can go our way next season. Plus too let's not forget possible trades and free agency.

 

[sunsfan88]

Guys, it's not the compensation. So many reports and NBA guys have said that the Suns and Hawks must have agreed on compensation before they gave permission for the interview or they wouldn't give the permission.

Have you guys read the Woj article? It's very clear that this was Budenholzer backing out, not the Hawks.

99.9% chance that Robert Sarver lowballed Budenholzer. And that's in his nature cause remember that the Suns GMs and HCs both make among the bottom 3 in the whole NBA in wages during Sarver's tenure as owner.

That tells you everything you need to know.

All that crap about "money isn't going to be an issue for the next HC" was just that...crap.

 

[pokerface]

Guys, it's not the compensation. So many reports and NBA guys have said that the Suns and Hawks must have agreed on compensation before they gave permission for the interview or they wouldn't give the permission.

Have you guys read the Woj article? It's very clear that this was Budenholzer backing out, not the Hawks.

99.9% chance that Robert Sarver lowballed Budenholzer. And that's in his nature cause remember that the Suns GMs and HCs both make among the bottom 3 in the whole NBA in wages during Sarver's tenure as owner.

That tells you everything you need to know.

All that crap about "money isn't going to be an issue for the next HC" was just that...crap.

Ah well...Bud isn't a miracle worker because look at the Hawks. I mean you can say the players are terrible but each side plays a part too. Are the players terrible because he's not doing something right? I'm sure he's a very good coach...Just uhh...If we add the right players that is going to have a big impact as well.

I think 'sometimes' coaches are like presidents. They get too much credit when things are good and too much blame when things are bad. Just sometimes!

 

[Ronin]

scott bordow‏Verified account@sbordow 9m9 minutes ago
Budenholzer scheduled to speak to reporters in Atlanta today so we may get more clarity on why he pulled his name out. I’ve been told something but will wait to see what he says

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don’t think it was money. That article published a week or so ago about James Jones’ influence was disturbing. It mentioned Jones convincing Sarver that spending hours after a game in the coaches office trying to figure out why they lost was not helping. What coach wants to spend hours appeasing his owner when he needs to spend time watching film and doing his job?

I would guess that Sarver did too much yapping in the interview process and Bud decided he had better things to do than spend hours wasting time with a meddling owner. It’s on if the huge faux pas of management. Give your people specific expectations, give them the resources they need, then get out of the way and let them do their jobs.

If there is anything I would love to do in basketball, it would be an owner. I am not talking about the money, I am content with my present lifestyle. I would just love to hire a GM and work on corporate atmosphere.

 

[Ronin]

scott bordow‏Verified account@sbordow 2m2 minutes ago
Was just told by Hawks’ pr folks that Budenholzer will not have any media availability today. Sorry for the confusion

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sometimes you interview for a job and turn it down. Why is this such a difficult concept to understand? I've turned down a dozen jobs, and in most cases it had nothing to do with the company interviewing me/ offering me the job.

If you’re interviewing you usually don’t turn down the job for a personal reason it’s typically because there’s something about the job, organization, or compensation that doesn’t suit you. If suns declined then I’d point the finger at bud. But that’s not what happened. Bud withdrew his name. So in all likelihood (not saying it’s 100% certain) it was something about the opportunity that wasn’t enticing to our best candidate.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I have no idea what happened but I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out Pop is stepping down and Bud is taking over. I also wouldn't be shocked to learn that he got an under the table offer for the Bucks opening (they don't want to do anything publicly until they are out of the playoffs). And who knows, maybe the Suns were made aware of the compensation demands by Atlanta and made it clear to Bud that they wouldn't go that high?

Also, Bud supposedly doesn't interview well, maybe he just didn't win them over. And yes, maybe it's simply money. But given that Ryan went out of his way to say that money would not be an issue, I tend to think that isn't the problem.

Man you’re giving a front office that has proven more often than not to be dysfunctional an awful lot of outs. Feels like you’re bending over backwards to make this not their fault.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Man you’re giving a front office that has proven more often than not to be dysfunctional an awful lot of outs. Feels like you’re bending over backwards to make this not their fault.

I usually choose to see things in a positive light until it's demonstrated to be otherwise. I'll have plenty of time to be miserable once that occurs and I really don't feel a need to get a jump on the people that choose to rush to judgement.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I usually choose to see things in a positive light until it's demonstrated to be otherwise. I'll have plenty of time to be miserable once that occurs and I really don't feel a need to get a jump on the people that choose to rush to judgement.

That’s fair. But it seems like you’re doing exactly the same thing just in the opposite direction. At this point it’s all just conjecture anyway.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That’s fair. But it seems like you’re doing exactly the same thing just in the opposite direction. At this point it’s all just conjecture anyway.

I would strongly disagree with this. I'm in the middle, allowing for many possibilities. And I've read many posts here that have already tried and convicted the Front Office on this without a shred of real evidence.

 

[Mathew81]

I have no idea what happened but I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out Pop is stepping down and Bud is taking over.

Maybe. But I would think if Pop was stepping down he would have done it while his wife was still sick so he could spend more time with her. Now that she's gone, I think Pop would throw himself into his work.

 

[overseascardfan]

If you’re interviewing you usually don’t turn down the job for a personal reason it’s typically because there’s something about the job, organization, or compensation that doesn’t suit you. If suns declined then I’d point the finger at bud. But that’s not what happened. Bud withdrew his name. So in all likelihood (not saying it’s 100% certain) it was something about the opportunity that wasn’t enticing to our best candidate.

They mentioned on Doug & Wolf this morning that either he was not going to get the control he wanted or they weren’t willing to pay. If he was interested then either of those were the deal breaker or both. I think it’s the control part that was the hang up, Sarver & McD probably didn’t want to give up that kind of control to a head coach.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Maybe. But I would think if Pop was stepping down he would have done it while his wife was still sick so he could spend more time with her. Now that she's gone, I think Pop would throw himself into his work.

Yeah, I have no idea if this is in the realm of possibility. It's just one of the ideas that's been making its way around the internet.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think I am with Gambo on this. That Bud really wants the Milwaukee job and just didn't want to string us along and thus he withdrew. The Suns really want to make a decision soon and if Bud is holding out to interview with Milwaukee and maybe other teams as well then I can understand why it didn't work out between him and the Suns.

 

[AzStevenCal]

They mentioned on Doug & Wolf this morning that either he was not going to get the control he wanted or they weren’t willing to pay. If he was interested then either of those were the deal breaker or both. I think it’s the control part that was the hang up, Sarver & McD probably didn’t want to give up that kind of control to a head coach.

Considering that he apparently failed miserably at the "control" part of his job in Atlanta, that might be a good thing. I'm assuming by control they are talking mostly about personnel decisions.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think I am with Gambo on this. That Bud really wants the Milwaukee job and just didn't want to string us along and thus he withdrew. The Suns really want to make a decision soon and if Bud is holding out to interview with Milwaukee and maybe other teams as well then I can understand why it didn't work out between him and the Suns.

I hope that's the case but honestly, it doesn't really ring true for me. People do change their mind but it seems more likely that something occurred during the interview process to sway him. I guess it's possible that Milwaukee contacted him and assured him he was their number one choice so he no longer felt forced to cover his bases with the Suns.