Compensation for Budenholzer?

[BC867]

Wow. Bud is a coach even BC might like.

Hey, JC, do you like the string of bargain basement coaches and temps the Suns have been going through?

 

[pokerface]

It wasn’t a cancer to the board. It was opinion. It was posters attacking other posters for having that opinion that was the cancer.

I was trying to think of a response but you nailed it.

My personal opinion is that the suns have been relying heavily on the draft and should have taken steps to ensure a desirable outcome. Sometimes to wait until midseason might be too late. Early in the season some teams were already starting to look uncatachable but things went our way. Plus it seemed like we tanked very hard at the end. It was hard to believe that many players went MIA due to injuries.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Exactly. People need to stop assuming that Bud can only pick one team...he can have interest in two teams and then let the Hawks decide which one to send him to.

He's leaving there because he's not wanted there (apparently), why would he want to weaken his new team and reward his old one?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Did we finish with the worst record? Yes.

Did we need to tank from day 1? No.

Was all of the chicken little "OMG WE CANT EVEN TANK RIGHT" stuff stupid, premature and cancer to the board? Yes.

Lol. First, way to avoid my point.

Second, gotta love the post hurling insults at the tankers while simultaneously blaming them for being cancers. Classic projection.

And @Mainstreet you liking a post that calls the tankers cancers as usual just shows your hypocrisy, flying in the face of you and a bunch of others here claiming you never insulted the tankers, while continually blaming them for the board’s problem. You did it when you called cheering for the tank abhorrent behavior and now you’ve liked a post calling us cancers.

Stay classy...

 

[JCSunsfan]

He's leaving there because he's not wanted there (apparently), why would he want to weaken his new team and reward his old one?

Exactly. Why Would you let your old boss choose your new boss?

 

[Phrazbit]

It wasn’t a cancer to the board. It was opinion. It was posters attacking other posters for having that opinion that was the cancer.

No matter your opinion posters were getting attacked.

Lol. First, way to avoid my point.

Second, gotta love the post hurling insults at the tankers while simultaneously blaming them for being cancers. Classic projection.

And @Mainstreet you liking a post that calls the tankers cancers as usual just shows your hypocrisy, flying in the face of you and a bunch of others here claiming you never insulted the tankers, while continually blaming them for the board’s problem. You did it when you called cheering for the tank abhorrent behavior and now you’ve liked a post calling us cancers.

Stay classy...

We ended up with the word record, the people freaking out at the start of the year over us not tanking right were obviously jumping the gun.

I don't feel bad for responding with snide to an "I told you so" post from someone who was freaking out for months that we were not tanking right when we finished dead last.

That vitriol was cancerous, it was waaaay to early to for people to be freaking out that we were winning here and there, and in the end it was proven so.

 

[sunsfan88]

He's leaving there because he's not wanted there (apparently), why would he want to weaken his new team and reward his old one?

Why do star players sometimes demand trades to only certain teams (by threatening to not resign with anyone else) even though it weakens their new team?

Same reason. If what giving up to acquire that star player or star coach isn't significant in the larger scale of having that player/coach on the team, then teams see it as a small price to pay.

 

[pokerface]

No matter your opinion posters were getting attacked.

We ended up with the word record, the people freaking out at the start of the year over us not tanking right were obviously jumping the gun.

I don't feel bad for responding with snide to an "I told you so" post from someone who was freaking out for months that we were not tanking right when we finished dead last.

That vitriol was cancerous, it was waaaay to early to for people to be freaking out that we were winning here and there, and in the end it was proven so.

Nothing was proven dude. No one knew certain players would be out injured...it just happened. Plus you act like you knew the suns would have a top three worst record. If you actually thought that then why would you care if certain posters (me) wanted to solidify that position by trading players that didn't fit in our future? Plus at one point it was a seven team tank race and it was up for grabs by any of them...so don't act like anything was in the bag.

Some of you wanted to play out the season early on without thinking about tanking or a high selection in the draft...fine. You then wanted to get all strategic in the second half of the season. Hey whatever but the draft never left my mind from beginning to end. We never had a shot at the playoffs so I didnt want the suns to dig an early hole from which they might not recover and sink our draft. You just can't insta tank late in the season and think it's good enough when other teams are tanking hard. There was too much at stake to be all casual about it IMO.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't think it will work like that. Bud will decide where he wants to coach and then the Hawks will then work with that team to get compensation. Coaches don't get traded in the same way that players do and thus a trade would simply be compensating the Hawks for dissolving the contract.

Yes they do. Look up how Doc Rivers, Stan Van Gundy, Jason Kidd etc got traded.

 

[sunsfan88]

People that are acting like "trading for a coach" is some new concept are just extremely misinformed.

For example, coach Doc Rivers was traded for an UNPROTECTED 1ST RD PICK to the Clippers by Danny Ainge.

It happens.

 

[sunsfan88]

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AND

So, by all appearances, if you don’t get extraordinarily lucky you don’t get rich in the used coach market. But compensation must be paid.

The Hawks hardly require any more first-round picks this season – they already have three of them coming. Unless, of course, the Hawks could flip top picks with Phoenix (with the league’s worst record, the Suns have the best lottery odds to land the No. 1 overall). You never know until you ask.

More likely the Hawks will get a future pick – and anything less than a first-rounder is an insult to Budenholzer.

https://www.myajc.com/blog/further-...ould-hawks-get-return/BHZAP4bMHQ2TnHmtnHsU0M/

That Bucks pick will be an extremely worthless pick and its doubtful that whoever McD picks with that pick will turn into something other than another Tyler Ennis/Archie Goodwin type player (aka other non lotto 1st rd selections by McD). Trading it for Budenholzer will at least make it look like we swapped Bledsoe for a reliable coach that can establish something worthwhile here in Phoenix.

My guess is we will have to give them our own 2nd rd pick (which is basically like a late 1st) or the Bucks pick for Bud.

 

[Phrazbit]

Nothing was proven dude. No one knew certain players would be out injured...it just happened. Plus you act like you knew the suns would have a top three worst record. If you actually thought that then why would you care if certain posters (me) wanted to solidify that position by trading players that didn't fit in our future? Plus at one point it was a seven team tank race and it was up for grabs by any of them...so don't act like anything was in the bag.

Some of you wanted to play out the season early on without thinking about tanking or a high selection in the draft...fine. You then wanted to get all strategic in the second half of the season. Hey whatever but the draft never left my mind from beginning to end. We never had a shot at the playoffs so I didnt want the suns to dig an early hole from which they might not recover and sink our draft. You just can't insta tank late in the season and think it's good enough when other teams are tanking hard. There was too much at stake to be all casual about it IMO.

I called the "top 3 worst record" from the get go and never wavered.

And I think our "certain injured players" were almost entirely because of our blatant, post all-star tanking, rather than them actually being hurt. It can't be proven either way, but I strongly suspect Booker plays if we had anything to play for... and really, he is the only guy who missed time with a specific injury. And, as stated before, I find his injury being serious hard to swallow considering that it kept him out so long... yet the team never bothered to do any MRI or anything to actually see what was "wrong". I suspect his wrist got mildly injured... and they shut him down because they were at the point in the season when tanking makes sense. The other injuries on the team were even more vague than his.

My stance never changed. I got labelled as "anti-tank", despite having frequently stated my stance on the realities of tanking being beneficial, because people felt like drawing lines in the sand and being cancerous.

We did the mid season tank that I suspected they'd do all along. Calling for the team to tank and dump everyone in November and December was premature and proven as such by the final result. Seriously... it was proven... in stone... they finished with the worst record, despite all of the ridiculous belly aching for months and months about them not tanking right.

 

[Western Font]

I didn’t complain about the tanking but don’t find the concerns premature. On Jan. 1 there were nine teams with worse records than the Suns. That’s almost a third of the league. The variance in games wasn’t huge, but just like at the top of the standings, you have to overtake teams while playing them (and while they are playing each other) so there are lots of “four point games” as they say in hockey.

The trade deadline was also approaching, McD had been on the record about acquiring veterans, and Blake Griffin was reportedly meeting with the Suns at the end of the month. There was more than enough reason to be worried about the tank if that was your concern.

 

[Carolinacacti]

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[Western Font]

Also, some people are really invested in getting the #1 pick in hopefully a ‘final tank.’ I get that. The worst record has the best odds for the top pick - almost twice as good
As the third-worst record. It also has better odds for the #2 and #3 picks than the second- and third-worst records, respectively. I get why someone would feel it’s a wasted opportunity to not make sure you get it.

Personally, I’m generally more flexible because you still have to go through the drawing, and you still have to make the selection. On draft day last year, the only player I thought we really missed out on was Fultz, and he proceeded to miss most of the season and have shooting issues. But we’ll see, he’s back now.

This year I’m more focused on the #1 because I want the Suns to draft Ayton. I think Doncic could be really good, but I also think there’s a better chance of being in position to draft a player more similar to Doncic than Ayton in the coming years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No matter your opinion posters were getting attacked.

We ended up with the word record, the people freaking out at the start of the year over us not tanking right were obviously jumping the gun.

I don't feel bad for responding with snide to an "I told you so" post from someone who was freaking out for months that we were not tanking right when we finished dead last.

That vitriol was cancerous, it was waaaay to early to for people to be freaking out that we were winning here and there, and in the end it was proven so.

Wow you’re doubling down on the argument that some people’s opinions of whatvthe suns should do (you know, a basketball-related comment) was the cancer and not the people attacking people for their sentiment (you know, a personal attack on their opinion). That’s a 100% completely accurate depiction of what happened. You just refuse to acquiesce here because it entails accepting blame. Your actions then (and now, continuing to attack individuals - calling them cancerous) is what creates ill will on the board. Disagreeing with someone’s assessment of what should be done is fine, even encouraged in sharing thoughts. But attacking people individually has a chilling effect on the sharing of thoughts. I guess everyone should agree with you on all posts or else they’re a cancer.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yes they do. Look up how Doc Rivers, Stan Van Gundy, Jason Kidd etc got traded.

No they don’t. When players are traded their contract stays intact and goes with them. With coaches you are simply sending the team compensation as incentive and a thank you for dissolving/voiding the coaches contract. Thus it is not up to the controlling team as to where the coach goes because the coach has to agree to a contract with the gaining team before it can all happen.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Good grief! Are we still arguing about tanking? We have had huge threads. Not sure anything more can be said than has already been said. And its over now.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Good grief! Are we still arguing about tanking? We have had huge threads. Not sure anything more can be said than has already been said. And its over now.

Agreed! Also, I could go another five seasons without a debate about player hair and would be super happy about that!

 

[AzStevenCal]

People that are acting like "trading for a coach" is some new concept are just extremely misinformed.

For example, coach Doc Rivers was traded for an UNPROTECTED 1ST RD PICK to the Clippers by Danny Ainge.

It happens.

No one suggested any such thing. It's not new but it is not common. And nowhere have I said we won't pay compensation, I just see no need for it. But now that it's part of the conversation nationally, yeah, we're probably going to have to if we want Bud. Personally, I'd shop elsewhere. If Atlanta still wants him, there are other quality coaches on the market.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I very much want Budenholzer. I think he is by far the best option out there and could be a real difference-maker!

I hate that compensation has become such a part of the conversation though. As AZStevenCal said, it can't help our leverage that it is being discussed so much across the media.

That said, I'd rather have Budenholzer than Fizdale (my second choice) and the Bucks pick.

 

[Chaplin]

I get the feeling that this ridiculous tanking conversation is just an excuse to do a little online bullying.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I get the feeling that this ridiculous tanking conversation is just an excuse to do a little online bullying.

It's probably indigestion, I'd lay off the breakfast burritos.

 

[pokerface]

Agreed! Also, I could go another five seasons without a debate about player hair and would be super happy about that!

Paytons hair was highly controversial. In all my years on this planet I never seen such a thing...But when it's a pro athlete the requires unobstructed vision (a pg no less) and he's representing the suns that ups the stakes even higher. I even question this dude's sanity.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd definitely give up the high 2nd rounder for Bud, would hate to lose the Bucks first rounder, but man... this team REALLY needs a GOOD coach for once and I'd be very tempted to even do that if need be.