Complete Frustration

[Mitch]

Have to vent here...hey, admit it, you love it when I vent, don't you? Like the Bud Light commercial..."let's vent!"

Seriously though, I cannot stand the way the Cardinals do business in free agency and quite frankly they have failed repeatedly at it forever.

The process should be simple...

You call a FA and tell him you want him and these are the financial parameters that make sense for the team. If the FA balks at the parameters, YOU DON'T ENTERTAIN A VISIT. Period.

Instead, the Cardinals say we like you come for a visit...which gets the FA and his agent all agog about a potential payday bonanza, only to find out a couple days AFTER the visit the Cardinals issue a low-ball offer.

You don't bring a Joey Porter in for a visit without him knowing what the parameters are. What we are left with is embarrassing, and if what the Cardinals are discussing is indeed a disappointment, Joey Porter is likely to sign for less money elsewhere out of spite.

And I don't blame him.

The Cardinals dumped close to $30M in salary this off-season. Everyone in the NFL knows this, so if the Cardinals decide to bring in FAs for visits they owe it to them and themselves to set the parameters, so no one gets gaga eyed.

Get real and have a plan. JMHO.

 

[Renz]

Most jobs have negotiable pay scales. Why tell someone what you are and aren't willing to pay before you even interview? That makes no sense from a business standpoint.

And if you are Porter, you aren't going to demand a certain salary before you even visit the team.

 

[Shane]

I think you are way off base Mitch. The team doesnt necessarily know if they want x player or not. Thus the visit. There is a big difference in wanting someone and showing interest in someone. Don't mix the two up. The team can and has operated the way you wish in the past ala edgerrin James.

Basically what you are saying in your rant IMO is pay that player whatever they want and be dine with it. Not a very sound way to operate at all. Like Porter? Why overpay a guy like that when you ate essentially the only team showing interest? Waiting him out is smart as far as I'm concerned. No need to rush to outbid yourself!

 

[binkar]

The main reason I am pissed is because my phone battery is dying twice as fast as usual, as a result of checking to see if there is any new news.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I think you are way off base Mitch. The team doesnt necessarily know if they want x player or not. Thus the visit. There is a big difference in wanting someone and showing interest in someone. Don't mix the two up. The team can and has operated the way you wish in the past ala edgerrin James.

Basically what you are saying in your rant IMO is pay that player whatever they want and be dine with it. Not a very sound way to operate at all. Like Porter? Why overpay a guy like that when you ate essentially the only team showing interest? Waiting him out is smart as far as I'm concerned. No need to rush to outbid yourself!

Agreed... I mean, we are talking about Joey Porter here. Not Lawrence Taylor!
Is Joey Porter the difference between this team being successful or not? No way...
Sure, we have Hayes and Paris Lenon...but that doesn't mean we need to overpay for a marginal Linebacker like Porter...

 

[az jam]

The problem goes back to the ownership and Bill Bidwill. The front office is frugal. Michael took over but I'm sure any deal has to be approved by the old man. They like Rod Graves as he fits in with their philosophy. The new stadium has given them a significant boost in a money stream but the old ways do remain.

 

[NeverSayDieFan]

My feeling is Bill Sr....

Still has FINAL say! ...and that's not good. Correct me if I'm wrong on this as I was not at the game itself. When I watch my dvd of the Cards win over the eagles and they're doing the awards presentation...When it came for Bill Sr. to hold up the Halas trophy, the stadium which was in a FRENZY up to that point, got REAL quiet. It seemed a very awkward moment to me. Then the cheering kicked back-in for Michael B., Coach Whiz', Kurt, and the rest of the team.

I remember a story about Jack Kent Cooke who owned the Redskins for many successful years. George Allen wanted a player and went to Cooke to plead his case. Cooke's response was, Can he help us WIN a Championship?? If you think he can let's got get 'em. I don't think the Cardinals operate the same way. I think we're light-years BETTER than we were BUT...There seems to be a line that we're just not willing to cross.

 

[Mitch]

I think you are way off base Mitch. The team doesnt necessarily know if they want x player or not. Thus the visit. There is a big difference in wanting someone and showing interest in someone. Don't mix the two up. The team can and has operated the way you wish in the past ala edgerrin James.

Basically what you are saying in your rant IMO is pay that player whatever they want and be dine with it. Not a very sound way to operate at all. Like Porter? Why overpay a guy like that when you ate essentially the only team showing interest? Waiting him out is smart as far as I'm concerned. No need to rush to outbid yourself!

You missed my point, Shane. The CARDINALS should set the parameters, not the FAs, BEFORE any visit.

That way, there's a visit and a deal pending a physical.

Look at the Bills, they hopped on ILB Andra Davis and had him signed. There was a mutual understanding of what the parameters were.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Have to vent here...hey, admit it, you love it when I vent, don't you? Like the Bud Light commercial..."let's vent!"

Seriously though, I cannot stand the way the Cardinals do business in free agency and quite frankly they have failed repeatedly at it forever.

The process should be simple...

You call a FA and tell him you want him and these are the financial parameters that make sense for the team. If the FA balks at the parameters, YOU DON'T ENTERTAIN A VISIT. Period.

Instead, the Cardinals say we like you come for a visit...which gets the FA and his agent all agog about a potential payday bonanza, only to find out a couple days AFTER the visit the Cardinals issue a low-ball offer.

You don't bring a Joey Porter in for a visit without him knowing what the parameters are. What we are left with is embarrassing, and if what the Cardinals are discussing is indeed a disappointment, Joey Porter is likely to sign for less money elsewhere out of spite.

And I don't blame him.

The Cardinals dumped close to $30M in salary this off-season. Everyone in the NFL knows this, so if the Cardinals decide to bring in FAs for visits they owe it to them and themselves to set the parameters, so no one gets gaga eyed.

Get real and have a plan. JMHO.

I guess Joey Porter is getting the last laugh...Look at how much his phone is ringing and all of these big offers he's weighing.

The Cardinals are being patient and doing their due diligence.

I guess we could go back to the old days of overpaying for E Smith and Edge.

 

[HoodieBets]

Agreed... I mean, we are talking about Joey Porter here. Not Lawrence Taylor!
Is Joey Porter the difference between this team being successful or not? No way...
Sure, we have Hayes and Paris Lenon...but that doesn't mean we need to overpay for a marginal Linebacker like Porter...

Could Joey Porter as of right now be the difference between 1st and 2nd in the West? Maybe, pretty much due to the fact that as of today our LB's are Hayes, Haggans, Lenon, Brown, Davis, and Highsmith....Say we add Weatherspoon they LB core is still very weak and unproven(sounds like our QB situation).

 

[40yearfan]

he truth of the matter is none of us have any idea of what is going on right now and being an impatient bunch, we want instant gratification. Ain't gonna happen. The initial rush is over. Now teams are taking their time and vetting players before they make an offer. So settle back and relax. Things should clear up by the time the draft rolls around.

 

[RonF]

Mitch, we have moved a long way from the Cardinal ways of old. I can see improvement with the team with each passing year and our drafting process seems to be working. I think this year we will start to build up some depth in some key areas.

 

[Shane]

You missed my point, Shane. The CARDINALS should set the parameters, not the FAs, BEFORE any visit.

That way, there's a visit and a deal pending a physical.

Look at the Bills, they hopped on ILB Andra Davis and had him signed. There was a mutual understanding of what the parameters were.

No you miss the point Mitch. There is a difference between interest and wanting. You don't set up contract parameters with someone you don't even know you want yet.

How would your version of what you want help with Porter for example? He tells you what he wants IE 6 million per. You say go to he'll don't bother visiting then? That's real helpful and condusive!

 

[Billy Bob]

The main reason I am pissed is because my phone battery is dying twice as fast as usual, as a result of checking to see if there is any new news.

Wow I've heard of that, you need to get one of those phone that alert you when you have a message....

 

[Cardiac]

Have to vent here...hey, admit it, you love it when I vent, don't you? Like the Bud Light commercial..."let's vent!"

Seriously though, I cannot stand the way the Cardinals do business in free agency and quite frankly they have failed repeatedly at it forever.

The process should be simple...

You call a FA and tell him you want him and these are the financial parameters that make sense for the team. If the FA balks at the parameters, YOU DON'T ENTERTAIN A VISIT. Period.

Instead, the Cardinals say we like you come for a visit...which gets the FA and his agent all agog about a potential payday bonanza, only to find out a couple days AFTER the visit the Cardinals issue a low-ball offer.

You don't bring a Joey Porter in for a visit without him knowing what the parameters are. What we are left with is embarrassing, and if what the Cardinals are discussing is indeed a disappointment, Joey Porter is likely to sign for less money elsewhere out of spite.

And I don't blame him.

The Cardinals dumped close to $30M in salary this off-season. Everyone in the NFL knows this, so if the Cardinals decide to bring in FAs for visits they owe it to them and themselves to set the parameters, so no one gets gaga eyed.

Get real and have a plan. JMHO.

Schwartz from the Lions didn't have a pre visit conversation, he showed up on KVB's door step and woooed him. Now maybe RG isn't a great wooer but I bet Whiz is a pretty good wooer.

I swear so many people have the patience of a 2 year old. Don't over pay Porter because you didn't over pay Dansby. If Porter thinks this way then he can get 6 mil per year from....ahh good luck with that.

Okay that's my rant on a vent. I would have liked to have Foote and Porter signed and be feeling all confident for this coming year. Thing is I had that feeling with Laboy and Edge and... Let's try just let RG and Whis do their thing.

 

[Buckybird]

Could Joey Porter as of right now be the difference between 1st and 2nd in the West? Maybe

Our ILB at this minute looks pedistrian, but to think Porter is the key piece to repeating as West Champs is ludicrus. Hell this team won for 2 straight years despite subpar OLB play. Joey Porters best days in the NFL are behind him & him not signing here isn't going to dictate the West!!!

 

[82CardsGrad]

Our ILB at this minute looks pedistrian, but to think Porter is the key piece to repeating as West Champs is ludicrus. Hell this team won for 2 straight years despite subpar OLB play. Joey Porters best days in the NFL are behind him & him not signing here isn't going to dictate the West!!!

 

[WildBB]

Mitch, we have moved a long way from the Cardinal ways of old. I can see improvement with the team with each passing year and our drafting process seems to be working. I think this year we will start to build up some depth in some key areas.

You build through the draft. If we had passed on Edgerrin back when, we'd be watching Peterson for the last few seasons. Might could have helped us win a SB allready.

 

[JeffGollin]

To set up high expectations and then "lose it" when things don't happen fast enough (or not at all) should have been expected.

One way to look at it - If we made Joey Porter a serious offer which he, in turn, is rejecting because he overvalues himself, then maybe we're better off without Joey Porter.

I get it that a degree of swagger (if kept under a degree of control) is a positive thing - especially in a pass rusher. But if it becomes increasingly obvious that the dude brings too much of a T.O. act to the table, maybe we'd be better off without him.

I'm not saying this is definitely the case with Porter, but I am beginning to pick up the faint aroma of me-ism there.

The Cards started getting good when Wiz came in, molded a bunch of talented players who lacked direction, added a bunch of unselfish role players to the mix, let the chemistry do its work and let it lead them to the promised land.

There's no beating talent, but the thing that makes the Cards the Cards has been the unselfishness of the team overall. To sacrifice that central-value in the name of "bringing in talent" would, in my opinion, be a serious/possibly fatal mistake.

 

[HoodieBets]

Our ILB at this minute looks pedistrian, but to think Porter is the key piece to repeating as West Champs is ludicrus. Hell this team won for 2 straight years despite subpar OLB play. Joey Porters best days in the NFL are behind him & him not signing here isn't going to dictate the West!!!

Joey Porters worst days are better than everyone but Hayes best days IMO

 

[WildBB]

One way to look at it - If we made Joey Porter a serious offer which he, in turn, is rejecting because he overvalues himself, then maybe we're better off without Joey Porter.

BINGO!

I get it that a degree of swagger (if kept under a degree of control) is a positive thing - especially in a pass rusher. But if it becomes increasingly obvious that the dude brings too much of a T.O. act to the table, maybe we'd be better off without him.

I'm not saying this is definitely the case with Porter, but I am beginning to pick up a distinct aroma of me-ism.

That seems to be his m/o. Pass.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Mitch - While it is frustrating for fans, but in the end its smart business.

Why set the market for Porter when it appears there is NO market? You and I (and all the fans) are the ones who get all excited about the visits only to be let down. But the Cardinals are doing the right thing. In retrospect Foote looks to have been injured more seriously then any of us thought, otherwise it makes no sense why he would have gone to be a backup in Pitt. Thats why he didn't sign.

And we are in the catbirds seat for Porter and possibly with Anderson and Whitehurst too. Thats the point. Wiz has made this a desirable place to play and lets the TEAM dictate the terms. Not the other way around.

This team doesn't operate like it used to. That theory was thrown out the window earlier this offseason when we extended Wiz and immediately traded for Rhodes. Those are moves we never would have made in the past.

Really its our fault for improperly managing expectations when these guys come to visit. Let the offseason come to you Mitch my man. Patience is a virtue.

 

[Monty]

Ive got a question that i think quite a few us dont know the answer to. What actually goes on in a visit? is it a rigorous work-out, an interview, a combination of both or just an opportunity to show the player you are interested in him?

If all we do when we bring a player in is interview them then we obviously already like them talentwise. In that case you ought to get a good chance of signing the player as he has an opportunity to impress you and you to impress him. Where in this process the financial negotiations are sorted is crucial too. I imagine most likely the parameters of a potential contract are mentioned in such an interview and therefore if the player goes away from the visit thinking well of the club and liking the opportunity to play there, then surely it is a mere factor of ironing out the fine details and signing the player. But then again these are all hypotheticals and im just guessing.

The problem is none of us really know what goes on in these visits so for us to condemn the organization for failing to sign the players brought in for visits might be a bit harsh.in the case of Foote for example There is a decent possibility the club could've been turned off Foote from his visit as till now we have no indication to suggest we offered him a contract.

The club is dragging its feet in signing decent FA's in my opinion and are hamstrining themselves by constantly waiting till the end of the FA period to sign mediocre players as the only remaining options to fill holes in the roster. I think the problem deep down still lies with the Bidwills turning Graves and Whisenhunt away from going for the better FA players and towards those that are cheaper and more often then not far lower quality players. For us to compete at the level we are at now we need to spend the money to get the quality we need to replace the quality we lost as you are not gonna be able to strike with every draft to fill holes. We cant get by every year picking up the remaining scraps in the FA market and hoping to fix our problems in the draft. I commend Whisenhunt, Keim and Graves for the excellent job they do in the draft and we rank right up there as one of the best drafting teams but we cannot continue to rely on rookies to fill holes left by experienced quality players.

 

[WildBB]

Anyone know how many yrs. Foote was guaranteed in his deal? I know he signed a 3 yr. deal.

 

[Buckybird]

I'm not saying this is definitely the case with Porter, but I am beginning to pick up the faint aroma of me-ism there.
.

In my book Porter has always been that way & that could have a negative effect on a "much younger" lockerroom