Congrats to Barry Bonds...

[Brian]

Why don't you just come out and say that it's Barry and not the steroids that pisses you off? It is quite transparent that's what the real issue is for you, yet you have chosen to stand behind some pseudo-moralistic BS about steroids.

How the heck is it transparent? What OBVIOUS statement have I made that it's not about the steroids?

Maybe the example after example I gave stating that it IS the steroids and that it's cheating? The one I gave about the roided up little leaguer? Or maybe it was the one where I said I consider McGwire and Sosa's accomplishments tainted also?

Was it one of those statements?

No, I don't like Barry Bonds. I wish someone who is playing the game CLEAN was breaking the record right now.

 

[Brian]

One more thing Mao...if you think I'm lying about being ignorant about it back in the late 90's or whenever than answer me this:

How come when Canseco came out with his book and his accusations about rampant steroid use did almost EVERYONE think Canseco was full of crap and was just being an attention *****?

Everyone doubted him (including me) and slowly but surely we found out he was telling the truth and he did have credibility.

Or were we all just being hypocrites?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Why wouldn't I? They're both currently banned performance-enhancing substances that fell outside of baseball's rules in the late 90's.

Was Andro banned while Mcgwire was playing? If so, then I'll accept your point here. If not (and I don't think it was), then your point is, well..... pointless...

Um, yeah. It was just as much fans as it was Bud Selig turning a blind eye to the ridiculous HR totals and bloated athletes in the latter half of the 1990's.

So as fans, it's our duty to call B.S. whenever someone or a group of players perform are record breaking levels? When Mcgwire and Sosa were doing there thing, I honestly can't say that the potential for steroid use was being discussed as it started to just a few years after their HR barrage. Perhaps you were one of the few "smart" ones who knew at the time that something was wrong.

No, I'm not. You like Harley are getting on moralistic soapboxes to denounce Barry Bonds yet you cheer on obvious steroid users just a few years prior. Congratulations, you're an over-the-top hypocrite with a transparent agenda.

Dude - do you enjoy flirting with the race card?? What a joke... I don't like Bonds - as is the case with virtually EVERY one who knows the guy.
He comes across as a supremely selfish person, and has never done a thing to change that image...
So everyone who doesn't like the guy has an "agenda"?? Exactly what would that "agenda" be?
If you want to toss out race, just do it man... Don't try to create some wild stories and then discreetly acuse people of having an "agenda"... That is sooooo lame...

 

[82CardsGrad]

Hard to blame Selig without just saying all or most of the owners were responsible. Can't think of many times Selig acted against the interests/wishes of the owners.

Who cares... Selig is the commissioner. Yes, the owners were complicit for sure... But ultimately Selig had the chance and the power to raise the issue. To bring it to a point where the owners and the union could not ignore it. The media would have jumped all over this story had Selig taken a more aggressive position on it. But he didn't. He bowed to the owners and the union like the wimp he really is... IMO, the owners and the union were simply doing what you might expect from them. Hey, MLB never "said" 'roids was illegal. So....
Had Selig stood up and said we are not going to accept the use of 'roids, we have reason to be "concerned" that MLB is being tainted and harmed by the use of or speculation of the use of 'roids... He failed bigtime...

 

[Matt L]

I think that its all the comments you have made about Barry Bonds being an a**hole. I can understand why people don't like him and his attitude. The steroids controversy just gives people more of a reason to boo him and act like a**es at baseball games.

TRUE baseball fans can respect watching a great baseball player. Watch a guy find the strike zone and patiently wait for his perfect pitch. Somebody brought up Hank Aaron's numbers and those career stats are impressive, probably places Hammerin' Hank in the top 10 players of all time, but I think that Barry Bonds has had one of the greatest seasons of all time for any baseball player. I think it was 2002 when he hit something like 40+ homeruns, had over 100 walks and his OPS was around 1.100.

Prior to 1999 which is the year that Bonds allegedly began to inject himself with all sorts of substances Bonds was considered the top player in the NL for the previous decade and close to the top player in all of the major leagues (Ken Griffey Jr probably holds that title).

Before the Dbacks inaugural season I was a Giants fan. I loved Will Clark, Matt Williams, and Barry Bonds. I still like to watch Bonds play because of his swing and his patience at the plate. I know that he is arrogant and a jerk to people, but I don't watch him because he is a good guy, he's a baseball player, and as a baseball player is pretty d*mn good!

 

[Heucrazy]

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[Brian]

I think that its all the comments you have made about Barry Bonds being an a**hole. I can understand why people don't like him and his attitude. The steroids controversy just gives people more of a reason to boo him and act like a**es at baseball games.

TRUE baseball fans can respect watching a great baseball player. Watch a guy find the strike zone and patiently wait for his perfect pitch. Somebody brought up Hank Aaron's numbers and those career stats are impressive, probably places Hammerin' Hank in the top 10 players of all time, but I think that Barry Bonds has had one of the greatest seasons of all time for any baseball player. I think it was 2002 when he hit something like 40+ homeruns, had over 100 walks and his OPS was around 1.100.

Prior to 1999 which is the year that Bonds allegedly began to inject himself with all sorts of substances Bonds was considered the top player in the NL for the previous decade and close to the top player in all of the major leagues (Ken Griffey Jr probably holds that title).

Before the Dbacks inaugural season I was a Giants fan. I loved Will Clark, Matt Williams, and Barry Bonds. I still like to watch Bonds play because of his swing and his patience at the plate. I know that he is arrogant and a jerk to people, but I don't watch him because he is a good guy, he's a baseball player, and as a baseball player is pretty d*mn good!

I almost completely agree.

The one thing I haven't posted on here yet but I do believe is that I've never understood why Barry ever started juicing in the first place. He was a HELL of a ballplayer anyway and immensely talented, IMHO he didn't need to start juicing and would have probably been a lock for the HOF anyway.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I think that its all the comments you have made about Barry Bonds being an a**hole. I can understand why people don't like him and his attitude. The steroids controversy just gives people more of a reason to boo him and act like a**es at baseball games.

TRUE baseball fans can respect watching a great baseball player. Watch a guy find the strike zone and patiently wait for his perfect pitch. Somebody brought up Hank Aaron's numbers and those career stats are impressive, probably places Hammerin' Hank in the top 10 players of all time, but I think that Barry Bonds has had one of the greatest seasons of all time for any baseball player. I think it was 2002 when he hit something like 40+ homeruns, had over 100 walks and his OPS was around 1.100.

Prior to 1999 which is the year that Bonds allegedly began to inject himself with all sorts of substances Bonds was considered the top player in the NL for the previous decade and close to the top player in all of the major leagues (Ken Griffey Jr probably holds that title).

Before the Dbacks inaugural season I was a Giants fan. I loved Will Clark, Matt Williams, and Barry Bonds. I still like to watch Bonds play because of his swing and his patience at the plate. I know that he is arrogant and a jerk to people, but I don't watch him because he is a good guy, he's a baseball player, and as a baseball player is pretty d*mn good!

"True" baseball players would never suggest that Hank Aaron is "probably" one of the Top 10 alltime players...
By the way - I am a lifelong and "true" baseball fan. Played ball through college and beyond. And yes, I fully appreciate the career that Bonds has put together. What's frustrating is that I know he would have been considered an alltime great without ever touching steroids. He didn't need to do it. That and his pathetic attitude are what angers me and makes it hard for me to cheer for Bonds.
And for the record, Hank Aaron is arguably the greatest MLB player of all time, certainly NOT "probably" in the top 10....

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Was Andro banned while Mcgwire was playing? If so, then I'll accept your point here. If not (and I don't think it was), then your point is, well..... pointless...

Steroids and Andro weren't banned in '98. They both were in 2004. Same thing.

So as fans, it's our duty to call B.S. whenever someone or a group of players perform are record breaking levels? When Mcgwire and Sosa were doing there thing, I honestly can't say that the potential for steroid use was being discussed as it started to just a few years after their HR barrage. Perhaps you were one of the few "smart" ones who knew at the time that something was wrong.

Yeah, there was a conversation regarding steroids in 1998 but it was conveniently swept under the rug by everyone so we could focus on the Sosa-McGwire chase. If you followed baseball in 1998 and didn't hear anything about steroids, you either buried your head in the sand or just flat out wasn't paying attention.

Dude - do you enjoy flirting with the race card?? What a joke... I don't like Bonds - as is the case with virtually EVERY one who knows the guy.
He comes across as a supremely selfish person, and has never done a thing to change that image...
So everyone who doesn't like the guy has an "agenda"?? Exactly what would that "agenda" be?
If you want to toss out race, just do it man... Don't try to create some wild stories and then discreetly acuse people of having an "agenda"... That is sooooo lame...

If you don't believe a player should hold a record due to his character, then you have a personal agenda that is off the baseball field and completely irrelevant when discussing something that took place on it. And I'm not playing the race card, the Bonds' witch hunt has more to do with his personality than the color of his skin.

 

[DWKB]

And for the record, Hank Aaron is arguably the greatest MLB player of all time, certainly NOT "probably" in the top 10....

Hank Aaron isn't even the greatest player in his era, much less of all time.

 

[DWKB]

Steroids and Andro weren't banned in '98. They both were in 2004. Same thing.





Yeah, there was a conversation regarding steroids in 1998 but it was conveniently swept under the rug by everyone so we could focus on the Sosa-McGwire chase. If you followed baseball in 1998 and didn't hear anything about steroids, you either buried your head in the sand or just flat out wasn't paying attention.

Agreed, read here: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=steroids&num=8

If you don't believe a player should hold a record due to his character, then you have a personal agenda that is off the baseball field and completely irrelevant when discussing something that took place on it. And I'm not playing the race card, the Bonds' witch hunt has more to do with his personality than the color of his skin.

The original hit king supposedly killed a man and openly attacked fans in the stands. The guy who passed him is a degenerate sociopath.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Steroids and Andro weren't banned in '98. They both were in 2004. Same thing.

"Same thing"??? McGwire and Sosa were doing there thing at a time when Andro and Steroids were not banned. Bonds is now breaking the greatest record in all of sports at a time when Steroids are banned, and the mountain of evidence says he used them! How in the world is that the same thing??

Yeah, there was a conversation regarding steroids in 1998 but it was conveniently swept under the rug by everyone so we could focus on the Sosa-McGwire chase. If you followed baseball in 1998 and didn't hear anything about steroids, you either buried your head in the sand or just flat out wasn't paying attention.

Guess my head was burried as I can't say I recall baseball and steroids being discussed in the same breath...

If you don't believe a player should hold a record due to his character, then you have a personal agenda that is off the baseball field and completely irrelevant when discussing something that took place on it. And I'm not playing the race card, the Bonds' witch hunt has more to do with his personality than the color of his skin.

For the LAST time - I am not at all saying that Bonds should "not" hold the record. I am not even saying that an * should appear by his name!
In fact, I still have doubts about how much steroids can truly impact the game. A round ball thrown at 95 MPH or moving off a table, being hit by a round bat requires much more than just muscles to hit over a fence.
No - I can't root for Bonds because he did something that might have affected his performance, that was banned, and that the record holder didn't do... And yes, he is a CLASS A moron and does zilcho to better the game or to improve his image. The guy has now played for 22 seasons or so - and never won a championship... not a surprise...

 

[82CardsGrad]

Hank Aaron isn't even the greatest player in his era, much less of all time.

wow...

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The original hit king supposedly killed a man and openly attacked fans in the stands. The guy who passed him is a degenerate sociopath.

It's funny how Pete Rose, a complete loser who broke the cardinal rule and gambled on baseball while admitting to taking amphetamines has half of baseball lined up to get him into the Hall of Fame at any cost while most of baseball wants Barry Bonds out of it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

"Same thing"??? McGwire and Sosa were doing there thing at a time when Andro and Steroids were not banned. Bonds is now breaking the greatest record in all of sports at a time when Steroids are banned, and the mountain of evidence says he used them! How in the world is that the same thing??

Barry is getting tested for steroids as we speak and is coming up clean. Therefore technically he's breaking the record and leading the majors in OPS with Mother Nature as his only help. Yeah most of those HR's probably came when he was juicing but as with McGwire and Sosa, they weren't a banned substance back then.

 

[DWKB]

wow...

I know, I can't believe you'd make that statement either...

 

[abomb]

Barry is getting tested for steroids as we speak and is coming up clean. Therefore technically he's breaking the record and leading the majors in OPS with Mother Nature as his only help.

If you really think there arent PEDs that defy the testing of MLB, I am sure there is a job in the commish's office for you.

The fact is that is entirely possible that he is juicing now.

 

[Matt L]

"True" baseball players would never suggest that Hank Aaron is "probably" one of the Top 10 alltime players...
By the way - I am a lifelong and "true" baseball fan. Played ball through college and beyond. And yes, I fully appreciate the career that Bonds has put together. What's frustrating is that I know he would have been considered an alltime great without ever touching steroids. He didn't need to do it. That and his pathetic attitude are what angers me and makes it hard for me to cheer for Bonds.
And for the record, Hank Aaron is arguably the greatest MLB player of all time, certainly NOT "probably" in the top 10....

I never said that you weren't a "true" baseball fan, I don't care if you are just a casual fan, and your opinion does not hold greater weight with me because you played "college and beyond" (Alot of your posts seem to reference this)

Whenever arguing about a player and bringing up numbers there is no definitive list and there is nobody that is a lock except for maybe Mays, Ruth; those are probably the two that make up everyone's list. For myself, Barry Bonds is in the top ten. Fort others teh list probably has greats like Mickey Mantle, Ty Cobb, Dimaggio, Jackie Robinson, Hank Aaron, Ken Griffey Jr, Stan Musial, Ted Williams, Ernie Banks, there are so many to list and there are so many who could arguably be placed in the top ten and this doesn't even cover pitchers! Where do they rank as baseball players in the top ten?

My point is; there is no definitive list, this is really objective, so "true" baseball fans may have differing opinions and should be allowed to present those opinions without being labeled as the opposite of a "true" fan.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

If you really think there arent PEDs that defy the testing of MLB, I am sure there is a job in the commish's office for you.

The fact is that is entirely possible that he is juicing now.

And you have what proof of this? If Bonds is still going to be scrutinized without evidence then so should every player in baseball, including the guys on your favorite team.

 

[abomb]

And you have what proof of this?

History is proof that any player could be beating the system right now. "Game of Shadows" sheds a lot of light on this.

If Bonds is still going to be scrutinized without evidence then so should every player in baseball, including the guys on your favorite team.

You are exactly right. That is why for my love of baseball was lost.

 

[100%CardsFan]

If anyone thinks Barry Bonds is the only one taking steroids then.. well.
He is facing other players using steriods, including pitchers who are faster and stronger then back in the day. but they still have a that great beer gut that makes baseball ...um still boring?

 

[Gee!]

I was gonna post what Harley and 82 said.. When McGuire set the single season record I didnt know what was going on so I enjoyed the moment.. Now that I know he used Andro, Im not sure what I watched and dont like it.. I dont like Bonds for plenty of reasons.. He plays for the giants first and foremost, he's a jackass and I dont think he should break this record while juicing..

There are no other reasons behind my reasoning...

 

[dreamcastrocks]

"Same thing"??? McGwire and Sosa were doing there thing at a time when Andro and Steroids were not banned. Bonds is now breaking the greatest record in all of sports at a time when Steroids are banned, and the mountain of evidence says he used them! How in the world is that the same thing??




Guess my head was burried as I can't say I recall baseball and steroids being discussed in the same breath...




For the LAST time - I am not at all saying that Bonds should "not" hold the record. I am not even saying that an * should appear by his name!
In fact, I still have doubts about how much steroids can truly impact the game. A round ball thrown at 95 MPH or moving off a table, being hit by a round bat requires much more than just muscles to hit over a fence.
No - I can't root for Bonds because he did something that might have affected his performance, that was banned, and that the record holder didn't do... And yes, he is a CLASS A moron and does zilcho to better the game or to improve his image. The guy has now played for 22 seasons or so - and never won a championship... not a surprise...

I don't know how else Mao and others have to say this.... but what Barry took at the time he took (allegedly) was NOT banned.

Even if the allegations that he took HGH or whatever prove to be true, he was taking them at a time when they were not banned. This is no different than McGuire/Sosa (andro/steroids) or Babe Ruth. (alcohol, heroin)

 

[abomb]

I don't know how else Mao and others have to say this.... but what Barry took at the time he took (allegedly) was NOT banned.

That's the problem. It was illegal at the time.

It's like if the NFL didnt ban Vick because dog fighting isnt on the NFL's list of unacceptable off-season activities.

OK, maybe that is a stretch, but you get the point.

Selig is guilty of failing to protect the integrity of the sport; the exact quality I prop Tags and Goodell for.

 

[D-Dogg]

I almost completely agree.

The one thing I haven't posted on here yet but I do believe is that I've never understood why Barry ever started juicing in the first place. He was a HELL of a ballplayer anyway and immensely talented, IMHO he didn't need to start juicing and would have probably been a lock for the HOF anyway.

Because he could break records on the juice, instead of just being a run of the mill hall of famer.