Coro puts the nail in the coffin

[cly2tw]

"I said I got this from watching the games, since I so vividly recall my frustration watching JJ handling the ball. Everybody should see it if paying attention. I only lacked finding an explanation for why. And Coro offered it. That's all. Peace!"


So you're making the case that only you and a few others, out of all the Suns fans, analysts, and national media covering the playoffs, noticed this?

C'mon, man. It just wasn't there. I honestly wish it was, because I could use some decent excuses for this move.

Hey, I'm only saying that me and several others saw something way back about JJ which now makes more sense given the revelation in the Coro article. We did not make this up as excuses for letting Joe go. Hope we are clear about that.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

That argument is the last refuge of a Clipper fan.

Looks like it's quickly becoming ours.

Another poor anology. Sarver is unwilling to pay the luxury tax, as are most owners.

Donald Sterling consistently fields a roster far below the salary cap. Big difference.

 

[playstation]

Another poor anology. Sarver is unwilling to pay the luxury tax, as are most owners.

Donald Sterling consistently fields a roster far below the salary cap. Big difference.

however, if you check the numbers, the suns would not have paid any luxury tax next year, after which they could have made a deal. not only that, they could've made a deal AFTER signing JJ but BEFORE the trade deadline and at least have gotten more than now. there is just NO getting around this: the deal was absolutely HORRIBLE, and now its too late.

 

[green machine]

I remember alot of people mentioning how it seemed that JJ would never pass to Amare in the post. I dont' remember who it was, but I remember that.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Another poor anology. Sarver is unwilling to pay the luxury tax, as are most owners.

Donald Sterling consistently fields a roster far below the salary cap. Big difference.

The article doesn't say that he is unwilling to pay the luxury tax. It says he is unwilling to lose money. Most owners are resigned to the fact that there is a decent chance they will lose money.

NBA team value is in the resale. Not the yearly posting.

 

[newfan101]

Another poor anology. Sarver is unwilling to pay the luxury tax, as are most owners.

Donald Sterling consistently fields a roster far below the salary cap. Big difference.

Ok, but do you not see a trend in his short tenure? Sarver wouldn't pay for a minimum wage scrub to go on the IR for crying out loud. Mike D wanted extra bodies for practice during the year, and BC told him it was normal to carry 13-14 players on a roster. Sarver didn't budge. That didn't save him millions, it saved him thousands. He wouldn't budge on 5 million over six years originally with JJ, putting us in this situation. That's a hard line stance on less than a million a year, against the advice of Jerry. Zarko and Voskhul were given away, behind what is now BS reasoning that they were saving up to sign JJ. And now this. Actually, Sarvers petty, penny pinching moves during the year showed me what kind of owner he would be, and because of that, I could see this happening a mile away.

I've watched this team since close to it's inception, and outside of the last few years when Jerry was obviously positioning himself to sell this team, you'd have to go back prior to 1988 to find the last time ANYONE suggested that the Suns were making moves to save money and not win. And the reality is that sometimes you have to go into the red to keep a winning team together, and only owners who are passionate about the game, as Jerry was, will put winning first over a profit in the years when the team comes close to a championship. That obviously will never be in the cards with Sarver. Maybe we can overcome our owner's penny pinching and win, behind our superstar big man that Sarver undeservedly inherited. But in the long run, owners like Sarver have teams who more consistently look like the Clippers than they do the Mavericks.

 

[playstation]

Ok, but do you not see a trend in his short tenure? Sarver wouldn't pay for a minimum wage scrub to go on the IR for crying out loud. Mike D wanted extra bodies for practice during the year, and BC told him it was normal to carry 13-14 players on a roster. Sarver didn't budge. That didn't save him millions, it saved him thousands. He wouldn't budge on 5 million over six years originally with JJ, putting us in this situation. That's a hard line stance on less than a million a year, against the advice of Jerry. Zarko and Voskhul were given away, behind what is now BS reasoning that they were saving up to sign JJ. And now this. Actually, Sarvers petty, penny pinching moves during the year showed me what kind of owner he would be, and because of that, I could see this happening a mile away.

I've watched this team since close to it's inception, and outside of the last few years when Jerry was obviously positioning himself to sell this team, you'd have to go back prior to 1988 to find the last time ANYONE suggested that the Suns were making moves to save money and not win. And the reality is that sometimes you have to go into the red to keep a winning team together, and only owners who are passionate about the game, as Jerry was, will put winning first over a profit in the years when the team comes close to a championship. That obviously will never be in the cards with Sarver. Maybe we can overcome our owner's penny pinching and win, behind our superstar big man that Sarver undeservedly inherited. But in the long run, owners like Sarver have teams who more consistently look like the Clippers than they do the Mavericks.

keep on preachin brother.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Very well put Newfan.

 

[King A]

Maybe Amare knew something about, well obviously his rift with JJ, but about him leaving, when mentioning that word 'POINT CENTER'

 

[PhxGametime]

"The Suns also could get help by using the trade exception during the season if a non-contender wants to dump a salary."


That's what I'm most worried about... why not use it now? The Team has gotten worse losing JJ, what's it going to help during the season when the Team is struggling and only have options that are teams dumping salary...


They better use the LLE then... because they need another piece.


Thomas F/C
Stoudemire F/C
Marion F
Jackson G/F
Nash PG

The starting line-up actually is still solid but without JJ the team still needs to be strong in the bench area, using JJack as starter. Bell isn't that bad but I like Jackson better but yet Jackson isn't quite as strong as JJ... Padgett is solid but the team really loses 2 starters from last year that averaged probably over 5 3PTers made... I really like Diaw but he's not a scorer, more-so a playmaker and unless Barbosa steps up on offensive end, I want a shooter (Jacobsen if he'd be willing?)...

 

[simply_amare]

I like JJ and all, but, if everything on the article is true, now I think of him as a very sensitive woosie. He even recalled the Heat game with an Amare argument on March? Everybody say things that they don't mean in the heat of the game. He got hurt about some game and never forgets it? Aren't you suppose to forget stuff like that after a game?

My guess is, he probably cried and never slept that night and was dreaming for a day like this to take his revenge. Dude, get over it! If it's during the game, sh*t like that happens. After all this, JJ made McDyess look like the tougher one. What a crybaby. Buhuhu!

JJ, you ungreatful f**k! Have fun rotting with me here in Atlanta!

 

[King A]

Yeah, Atlanta stinks!

 

[Sundance]

Who knew last year's team had such chemistry issues? It just goes to show that you can't have 5 stars on a team... or, at least, 3 stars and 2 guys with delusions of grandeur.

 

[Dustbuster]

Many close to the situation are adamant that Sarver was not willing to pay for his mistake from last summer, when he ignored advice to give Johnson an extra $5 million over six years.

Those people said Sarver never intended to match the offer and was looking for an out, particularly after issuing internal promises. Johnson provided an out by saying he would rather run the point in Atlanta.


This raises one very, very big issue to the fans of the Phoenix Suns. This means that we have been repeatedly lied to. We were told that they were going to keep the core together. It has been said for months that resigning JJ was the #1 priority. We were told as late as last week that the Suns had every intention of re-signing JJ, of matching any offer. It appears that this was not true all along. That Sarver had no intention of matching the offer. We've been had.

________________________________________________________

One other thing. Chris Saunders has made the point that everyone should no that they have to pass the ball to Amare at all costs. Yes, Amare is our go-to guy, our superstar, but we are also in the process of creating a monster right now. Amare is being turned into a prima donna that has absolute control over this team. Want KT, Amare, bye-bye Q. Had a fight with JJ - see ya, Joe. His ego is already very large, and if we are not careful it is this line of thinking that will turn Amare into the type of egomaniac superstar that we all hate....see Bryant, Kobe. It is my firm opinion that every player on the team matters, and while there are stars, if you allow them to run the team and dictate every whim (like KG punching a rookie in the face with little provocation - and then the team doesn't sign the little guy's contract) it makes for an ugly situation. I don't want this to be AMARE'S TEAM - I want it to be the Phoenix Suns, a team that happens to star Amare Stoudemire.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Many close to the situation are adamant that Sarver was not willing to pay for his mistake from last summer, when he ignored advice to give Johnson an extra $5 million over six years.

Those people said Sarver never intended to match the offer and was looking for an out, particularly after issuing internal promises. Johnson provided an out by saying he would rather run the point in Atlanta.


This raises one very, very big issue to the fans of the Phoenix Suns. This means that we have been repeatedly lied to. We were told that they were going to keep the core together. It has been said for months that resigning JJ was the #1 priority. We were told as late as last week that the Suns had every intention of re-signing JJ, of matching any offer. It appears that this was not true all along. That Sarver had no intention of matching the offer. We've been had.

________________________________________________________

One other thing. Chris Saunders has made the point that everyone should no that they have to pass the ball to Amare at all costs. Yes, Amare is our go-to guy, our superstar, but we are also in the process of creating a monster right now. Amare is being turned into a prima donna that has absolute control over this team. Want KT, Amare, bye-bye Q. Had a fight with JJ - see ya, Joe. His ego is already very large, and if we are not careful it is this line of thinking that will turn Amare into the type of egomaniac superstar that we all hate....see Bryant, Kobe. It is my firm opinion that every player on the team matters, and while there are stars, if you allow them to run the team and dictate every whim (like KG punching a rookie in the face with little provocation - and then the team doesn't sign the little guy's contract) it makes for an ugly situation. I don't want this to be AMARE'S TEAM - I want it to be the Phoenix Suns, a team that happens to star Amare Stoudemire.

Let's worry about correcting Amare's ego problems AFTER we have him locked up for a long long time.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It is Sanders not Saunders.

 

[Dan H]

Johnson told several people that being a third option on the Suns was "unacceptable." He reportedly resented teammates' star treatment and disliked Amaré Stoudemire after a March halftime incident in Miami.

After Dwyane Wade's 19-point half, Stoudemire barked at Johnson in front of the team: "Are you going to play any (expletive) defense?"

Superstars call out their teammates when they're not giving their all. Bird did it. Jordan did it. Magic did it. Kudos to Amare here.

As far as JJ goes . . . if you can't handle the leader of the team telling you to play defense, don't let the door hit you.

 

[Dustbuster]

My mistake, o great moderator, may I be excused?

 

[Dustbuster]

Superstars call out their teammates when they're not giving they're all. Bird did it. Jordan did it. Magic did it. Kudos to Amare here.

As far as JJ goes . . . if you can't handle the leader of the team telling you to play defense, don't let the door hit you.

Dan, great leaders lead by example. Amare telling JJ to play defense is like the pot calling the kettle black, except that in this case, the kettle actually usually plays the best defense on the team. Amare was one of great holes in our defensive scheme, often taking plays (and games) off, so no, it wouldn't sit all that well with me either.

Now I wouldn't leave the team over it....

 

[JCSunsfan]

Superstars call out their teammates when they're not giving they're all. Bird did it. Jordan did it. Magic did it. Kudos to Amare here.

As far as JJ goes . . . if you can't handle the leader of the team telling you to play defense, don't let the door hit you.

The ESPN article said that JJ was also frustrated being the 4th option, especially behind Nash. If you can't handle starting, being the backup 2, and catching passes from the very unselfish and reigning MVP--sorry, take a walk.

 

[Dan H]

Dan, great leaders lead by example. Amare telling JJ to play defense is like the pot calling the kettle black, except that in this case, the kettle actually usually plays the best defense on the team. Amare was one of great holes in our defensive scheme, often taking plays (and games) off, so no, it wouldn't sit all that well with me either.

Now I wouldn't leave the team over it....

By your standards, Michael Jordan was a poor leader - he was verbally and sometimes physically abusive to teammates.

 

[sunsfn]

Amare might be the next to go. Even if he signs a contract, if Sarver does not pay for the players to win, Amare will force a trade in a year or two. This team with Sarver penny pinching will never win a title. JC has got to be going bonkers right about now. There is not way JC lets JJ get away, no way!!! He knows that players argue in the heat of battle and get over it. Winning takes care of everything! The suns would have won a lot of games again this year and JJ & Amare would have gotten along just fine. This is the closest this team has been and they have now just blown it.

If some of you think the suns will win 62 games next year, forget it. The controversy will stay with the team for a while and the new players will take a while to mesh and win consistently. Also there is no way you replace JJ unless you sign an excellent shooting guard and a backup point guard. This trade will get them nothing, especially this year. The draft picks in my mind are worthless because the suns need veterans, we are not building a team, we have built a team and are now tearing down the most successful team in the NBA last year. Finley is not the answer, he was very inconsistent last year and his best days are behind him.

I really think these are sad days for suns fans after the successful year last year, Sarver is more interested in money than winning.
I have been around and watched the suns since their biginning and this is probably the worst I have felt toward this team all this time.

 

[Dustbuster]

Amare might be the next to go. Even if he signs a contract, if Sarver does not pay for the players to win, Amare will force a trade in a year or two. This team with Sarver penny pinching will never win a title. JC has got to be going bonkers right about now. There is not way JC lets JJ get away, no way!!! He knows that players argue in the heat of battle and get over it. Winning takes care of everything! The suns would have won a lot of games again this year and JJ & Amare would have gotten along just fine. This is the closest this team has been and they have now just blown it.

If some of you think the suns will win 62 games next year, forget it. The controversy will stay with the team for a while and the new players will take a while to mesh and win consistently. Also there is no way you replace JJ unless you sign an excellent shooting guard and a backup point guard. This trade will get them nothing, especially this year. The draft picks in my mind are worthless because the suns need veterans, we are not building a team, we have built a team and are now tearing down the most successful team in the NBA last year. Finley is not the answer, he was very inconsistent last year and his best days are behind him.

I really think these are sad days for suns fans after the successful year last year, Sarver is more interested in money than winning.
I have been around and watched the suns since their biginning and this is probably the worst I have felt toward this team all this time.

I agree with your post completely, and it echoes the way that I feel. Marion won't be happy about this, as he has always referred to JJ as "his boy" and just at this charity event made the comment that all he wanted JJ to need next year was a Suns uniform. It also isn't going to make him feel very secure about his tenure here, since his contract is always the first to come up in trade discussions.

If you'll pardon a Biblical analogy, Solomon had a treasury house filled with golden shields. During his son's reign (Rehoboam), the king of Egypt (Shishak) came and defeated Rehoboam's armies in battle, and in the process took all of the golden shields from the treasury. Rehoboam's solution was to replace all of the golden shields with brass imitations. They still looked shiny, but anyone with any amount of intelligence could immediately tell that they were inferior. I feel like we are about to start the season with some bronze shields after last year having gold. This is going to be an inferior team to the one that captured our hearts last year. Until yesterday, I never once thought that JJ would be elsewhere and that we could really be so cheap and petty...and it looks like I was wrong.

 

[Dustbuster]

By your standards, Michael Jordan was a poor leader - he was verbally and sometimes physically abusive to teammates.

Dan, I don't follow your line of reasoning. Jordan did lead by example. He played hard...always. My point was that Amare has yet to lead by example when it comes to playing defense. He, as one of the poorer defenders on the team, was calling out arguably our best defender on defense, which to me smacks of hypocrisy. I can imagine how that would not sit well.

 

[Dan H]

Dan, I don't follow your line of reasoning. Jordan did lead by example. He played hard...always. My point was that Amare has yet to lead by example when it comes to playing defense. He, as one of the poorer defenders on the team, was calling out arguably our best defender on defense, which to me smacks of hypocrisy. I can imagine how that would not sit well.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't see it as being hypocritical - Amare is the leader of the team, and Joe was getting lit up. For all the talk of Amare being a poor defender I don't recall him getting lit up, even going up against bigger, stronger players like Shaq.