Cousins Dollars Look Too High

[Solar7]

How's that worked out for him? You can put up all the stats you want, but they mean nothing when you don't win. Saying stats alone make a QB top-ten in this league is flawed logic.

The Redskins haven't given him anything to succeed with, but it's not a lie for me to say he's a top 10 QB.

If James Bettcher can say he ran a top 10 defense for 3 years, the same applies to Cousins.

Still, let's not pretend that we wouldn't be ecstatic if our QB was throwing for 4,000 yards and 25 TDs each year.

 

[Jetstream Green]

To hell with rankings, an elite QB is someone with the ability to not only have the physical traits to deliver the ball in the right place but go through their progressions. Cousins usually appears to get to his second read max and is most successful when he can hit his first read with some open space till the field shortens. An elite QB can run the whole cycle of their progressions, going to their third option and even cycling back down to the first. If there are say only six guys who can do that, then who cares if you make number eight, being in the top ten would not make you elite

 

[Solar7]

To hell with rankings, an elite QB is someone with the ability to not only have the physical traits to deliver the ball in the right place but go through their progressions. Cousins usually appears to get to his second read max and is most successful when he can hit his first read with some open space till the field shortens. An elite QB can run the whole cycle of their progressions, going to their third option and even cycling back down to the first. If there are say only six guys who can do that, then who cares if you make number eight, being in the top ten would not make you elite

I didn't say he was elite.

But no one available to us is likely elite, so we have to make due.

 

[TRW]

Cousins seems to have the “Rivers syndrome” in that he is sometimes spectacular and sometimes has the “What the?” moments. Not sure I want to make him the highest paid player in history.

He is about where the Bleacher report put him #12 or so in the league. Is that worth $28-30 million a year? Maybe for a team like the Cards, maybe not.

The Cards have a few holes to fill and Cousins would take most of, if not all, of the flexibility to do so.

I just think he is too over priced for that. Plus he’s 30 years old and not a spring chicken even with QBs playing longer these days.

Go for a vet, draft one of the young guys and let someone else over pay Cousins. I think that is where I am at the moment.

 

[Arz101]

$30 million per year in 2018 is not that outrageous with salary cap increase every year 2 years down the line, no? Asking experts if there is merit to this argument.

 

[Stout]

The Redskins haven't given him anything to succeed with, but it's not a lie for me to say he's a top 10 QB.

If James Bettcher can say he ran a top 10 defense for 3 years, the same applies to Cousins.

Still, let's not pretend that we wouldn't be ecstatic if our QB was throwing for 4,000 yards and 25 TDs each year.

And I'll laugh at James Bettcher when he says that.

I was watching the Herd, and he destroyed Cousins. Absolutely doesn't rate him. So, who's right? The Cousins shippers or the Cousins naysayers?

It's not a lie to call him, STATISTICALLY, a top-10 QB. That's accurate. It's a flat-out opinion to say he's just a top-10 QB, full stop.

 

[Dback Jon]

And I'll laugh at James Bettcher when he says that.

I was watching the Herd, and he destroyed Cousins. Absolutely doesn't rate him. So, who's right? The Cousins shippers or the Cousins naysayers?

It's not a lie to call him, STATISTICALLY, a top-10 QB. That's accurate. It's a flat-out opinion to say he's just a top-10 QB, full stop.

Stats DO lie

 

[cardncubfan]

Dude it was “devastating” (your word, never mine) injury that kept him out an ENTIRE SEASON. Downplay it all you want, but an entire season is nothing to sneeze at. His wrist might be 100% when he comes back, I’m not an expert (nor do I believe you are), but that’s still a year of missed football. I’d expect even great players to be at least a little rusty after sitting out an entire year.

I get having a year off. Sometimes you are a little rusty when you come back. They put him on ir because it was going to take at least 6 weeks to heal. I believe he could have came back last year but they just didn't want to risk it with our injured OL.

 

[TJ]

Statistically he's been in the top 10 the past three years, every year he's been a starter. I'm not arguing feelings here, just the numbers. I'm fine if you like other QBs more, but he has put up the statistics to be considered top 10.

So he has really good raw statistics in the Top-10, but that does not necessarily put him squarely in the Top-10. Guys like Rodgers, Luck, Brady, Brees, Big Ben, et al are the catalyst for their team's success. Take any of those off and those teams are 3-4 wins. Can't say that about Kirk.

Cousins might be 2 wins better than Drew Stanton and/or Gabbert for an entire season. Is that worth paying Cousins $28 mil/season and upwards of $80 mil guaranteed, or would I rather get a $4 mil stopgap and a rookie paying him $3-4 mil/season?

 

[Jetstream Green]

I didn't say he was elite.

But no one available to us is likely elite, so we have to make due.

So, you do not pay elite money to someone who is not and you try to get one from the draft. People paying elite money who want to make themselves feel better about having one does not change his actual value. A good franchise will not pay that kind of money because they have aspirations to win a championship. Of course they are hard to find in the draft, and they come from various days of the draft but that is where they come from in the first place. Taking Cousins is not making due, it's settling

 

[Chopper0080]

The best argument for Cousins is that you don't trust Keim to find a QB in the draft, and you want to be competent at the QB position as you build moving forward. Cousins ensure you are that more than any other option available. That being said, it comes with a huge cost.

 

[Chopper0080]

So, you do not pay elite money to someone who is not and you try to get one from the draft. People paying elite money who want to make themselves feel better about having one does not change his actual value. A good franchise will not pay that kind of money because they have aspirations to win a championship. Of course they are hard to find in the draft, and they come from various days of the draft but that is where they come from in the first place. Taking Cousins is not making due, it's settling

What is elite money? A bad QB makes 15mil. Average QBs are getting 21. If you pay 25 today, is saving that 4 mil worth the risk of being really bad at QB? Will it even matter in 2 or 3 years if you draft right? Those are the real questions.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I get having a year off. Sometimes you are a little rusty when you come back. They put him on ir because it was going to take at least 6 weeks to heal. I believe he could have came back last year but they just didn't want to risk it with our injured OL.

Now, I'm super confused. First, you literally have no proof to back the above up. Second, what you just described is pretty much a "tanking" move, where the team decided not to do everything possible to win as many games as they could.

 

[Solar7]

So he has really good raw statistics in the Top-10, but that does not necessarily put him squarely in the Top-10. Guys like Rodgers, Luck, Brady, Brees, Big Ben, et al are the catalyst for their team's success. Take any of those off and those teams are 3-4 wins. Can't say that about Kirk.

Cousins might be 2 wins better than Drew Stanton and/or Gabbert for an entire season. Is that worth paying Cousins $28 mil/season and upwards of $80 mil guaranteed, or would I rather get a $4 mil stopgap and a rookie paying him $3-4 mil/season?

I think it's ridiculous to say he might be two wins better than two guys who have 55% completion percentages to his 65%, especially when he's thrown for 26 more TDs than them combined, with one less season played than them in his belt.

So, you do not pay elite money to someone who is not and you try to get one from the draft. People paying elite money who want to make themselves feel better about having one does not change his actual value. A good franchise will not pay that kind of money because they have aspirations to win a championship. Of course they are hard to find in the draft, and they come from various days of the draft but that is where they come from in the first place. Taking Cousins is not making due, it's settling

Like Chopper said, what is elite money? For the past three years we had Carson Palmer on the books for nearly $20 million. Especially with the franchise cap continuing to increase. I get it, it's not cheap. But we don't have our choice of rookies and Cousins has shown he's had success in the league.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I think it's ridiculous to say he might be two wins better than two guys who have 55% completion percentages to his 65%, especially when he's thrown for 26 more TDs than them combined, with one less season played than them in his belt.


Like Chopper said, what is elite money? For the past three years we had Carson Palmer on the books for nearly $20 million. Especially with the franchise cap continuing to increase. I get it, it's not cheap. But we don't have our choice of rookies and Cousins has shown he's had success in the league.

I want AJ MacCarron, who in my opinion is a younger version of Alex Smith. As Chopper said, Cousins comes with a huge cost Solar... btw, we do have a choice of rookies in a deep quarterback class

 

[TJ]

I think it's ridiculous to say he might be two wins better than two guys who have 55% completion percentages to his 65%, especially when he's thrown for 26 more TDs than them combined, with one less season played than them in his belt.

Drew Stanton has a win/loss record of 16-11 (which includes his stint at lowly Detroit), and Kirk Cousins is at 26-30-1. This is not saying that Stanton is better, but Cousins's value as a QB1 has been minimal while at Washington, which is why saying Cousins adds maybe 2 wins to your season isn't far-fetched at all.

The question you need to ask yourself is: Is Cousins worth 25%+ of your salary cap for 5+ seasons, or can you draft and build around a rookie and stopgap for about $20 mil less this season and beyond?

 

[Solar7]

I want AJ MacCarron, who in my opinion is a younger version of Alex Smith. As Chopper said, Cousins comes with a huge cost Solar... btw, we do have a choice of rookies in a deep quarterback class

I like McCarron depending on price as worth taking a flyer on. And as you know from us talking, I do think there will be some value at QB available to us in this draft, but I don't believe we can get a "surefire elite" one, and I don't think we can expect him to reach Cousins' level of production anytime soon. I suppose I think with Cousins that we can compete for the NFC West crown for years to come, but without... we suffer two years at minimum of not even having a grasp at it.

Drew Stanton has a win/loss record of 16-11 (which includes his stint at lowly Detroit), and Kirk Cousins is at 26-30-1. This is not saying that Stanton is better, but Cousins's value as a QB1 has been minimal while at Washington, which is why saying Cousins adds maybe 2 wins to your season isn't far-fetched at all.

The question you need to ask yourself is: Is Cousins worth 25%+ of your salary cap for 5+ seasons, or can you draft and build around a rookie and stopgap for about $20 mil less this season and beyond?

I watch a lot of Redskins games. I've seen Cousins play a ton. I don't think the lack of wins is his fault, more a lack of a defense or a run game. But I don't get where you get the number of 25% of the cap. That'd be 45 million a year. Which of course, I wouldn't do. At 25M? Maybe. That's what we were paying Palmer anyways, and I don't think Palmer was better.

 

[NJCardFan]

Take this for what it's worth: http://dailysnark.com/broncos-qb-kirk-cousins-reportedly-close-deal/

 

[mjb21aztd]

Pass sign bridgewater or Bradford draft Jackson or worst Allen let either one of those develop hopefully problem fixes in a gr8 or two....

 

[Snakester]

Take this for what it's worth: http://dailysnark.com/broncos-qb-kirk-cousins-reportedly-close-deal/

Best news I’ve heard all day!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Best news I’ve heard all day!

how have they closed a deal when FA hasn't even begun? You'd think Washington would HAMMER them with tampering... even if they're going to let him go.

 

[GatorAZ]

Take this for what it's worth: http://dailysnark.com/broncos-qb-kirk-cousins-reportedly-close-deal/

That was a guy on the radio spitballing. However Denver makes sense and Von Miller has already gone public wanting Cousins.

 

[daves]

Is Cousins worth 25%+ of your salary cap for 5+ seasons

FYI, the salary cap is expected to rise to $178M in 2018.

Just keepin' it real!

...dave

 

[Snakester]

how have they closed a deal when FA hasn't even begun? You'd think Washington would HAMMER them with tampering... even if they're going to let him go.

Same as the Alex Smith trade. Some how they are finding a way to get around the rules. Maybe agents can talk all they want just not the players or teams to each other.

 

[jmt]

Best news I’ve heard all day!

Me too!