Left Field, Right Field, SS, 1B and hopefully still 2B will pick us up in regards to average, but Young needs to get up to .250 at least by next year or I'll share the pessimism others have about his future here.
D-backs vs. Dodgers series thread
- Thread starter Desert Rat
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Left Field, Right Field, SS, 1B and hopefully still 2B will pick us up in regards to average, but Young needs to get up to .250 at least by next year or I'll share the pessimism others have about his future here.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Uggghhhh... You couldn't be more wrong...
I am discussing this from the perspective of how most championship teams are built...
Nowhere did I infer that having a LF nicely produce is a bad thing... One would have to be fairly dense to have read that in any of my posts...
What I am saying is that over the last 6-7 decades, most successful teams adhere to certain truths/time-tested realities...
On successful teams, most CF's provide speed, stolen bases, .300 average, .400 OBP and defense...
You can try to deny it all you want, however, history speaks for itself...
And in a very weak division like the NL West, it is entirely possible for the D-backs to be successful given their current make-up. As I've said, they also benefit from having one of MLB's best pitching staffs. I can assure you that if their starting pitching were not as productive as they've been, the liability that is Young would receive a TON more scrutiny...
That said, while the D-backs might indeed see success in a weak division, I don't see them winning a championship and/or maintaining a high degree of success over a sustained period of years - mainly due to the offensive hole created by Young in CF... Again, it is wrong (and history proves this out) to expect that the type of offense normally supplied by a CF on successful teams, could/should be picked up by other position players...
Another impact this has on the team is that a guy like Young, who is just talented enough and shows just enough flashes to keep you interested in him, prevents the team from making the moves they should make... In this case, the D-backs would benefit far greater from having a true CF threat, who is much more capable of hitting closer to .300 and producing an OBP closer to .400, versus what they get from Young...
And trust me - your comments about "not playing baseball at a high level" simply couldn't be more off the mark...
DWKB
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Last 30 years of World Series winners listed by year and their CF's stat line:
The back of the cuff average of championship caliber teams starting CF's is .273/.332/.420
Code:
Year Avg Obp Slg
-----------------------------
2007 0.268 0.330 0.382
2006 0.257 0.350 0.471
2005 0.270 0.329 0.407
2004 0.304 0.380 0.477
2003 0.305 0.361 0.373
2002 0.283 0.313 0.389
2001 0.275 0.337 0.430
2000 0.307 0.391 0.566
-----------------------------
1999 0.342 0.435 0.536
1998 0.339 0.422 0.575
1997 0.245 0.338 0.370
1996 0.305 0.391 0.535
1995 0.258 0.317 0.376
1994 N/A N/A N/A
1993 0.273 0.341 0.438
1992 0.248 0.303 0.390
1991 0.319 0.352 0.460
1990 0.260 0.347 0.486
-----------------------------
1989 0.250 0.315 0.380
1988 0.263 0.320 0.395
1987 0.332 0.367 0.534
1986 0.295 0.377 0.445
1985 0.278 0.316 0.408
1984 0.287 0.357 0.495
1983 0.275 0.328 0.357
1982 0.296 0.318 0.391
1981 0.251 0.297 0.367
1980 0.259 0.278 0.386
-----------------------------
1979 0.282 0.333 0.381
1978 0.265 0.302 0.397The back of the cuff average of championship caliber teams starting CF's is .273/.332/.420
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
I certainly don't have the time to validate your data so I'll trust what you have presented here is indeed factual...
Chris Young:
2007: .237/ .295/ .467
2208: .234/ .300/ .417
His average and OBP (both of the item I referenced in my posts) are hugely below the averages you quote... Therefore, I stand by my comments...
I certainly don't have the time to validate your data so I'll trust what you have presented here is indeed factual...
Chris Young:
2007: .237/ .295/ .467
2208: .234/ .300/ .417
His average and OBP (both of the item I referenced in my posts) are hugely below the averages you quote... Therefore, I stand by my comments...
But his SLG is right on the money
.Young clearly needs more work. But I will take his 2007 numbers any day. I just think he got caught in the hype this year, and hasn't made the adjustments after the pitchers had a full off-season to study him.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
But his SLG is right on the money
Young clearly needs more work. But I will take his 2007 numbers any day. I just think he got caught in the hype this year, and hasn't made the adjustments after the pitchers had a full off-season to study him.
That's exactly the trap a guy like Young creates... and exactly why the D-backs won't sustain success... You only have a pitching staff like theirs every so often. And it's only because of the pitching that you are trapped into making the sort of comment you did above...
A CF hitting .230 with a .290'sish OBP is not a fulltime, starting centerfielder on most successful teams... regardless of slugging %....
Chris Young was the 11th best CF in MLB last year for OPS.
6th in Slugging
8th in SB
13th in RBI
2nd in HR
9th in Doubles (and has more doubles this year already than all of last year)
10th in Runs
While only 9th in Total AB's.
Like I said, most teams would take 2007 Chris Young.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Ok...
This is one reason I love baseball - statistical warfare...
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Indeed... and stats in baseball typically don't lie... particularly when taken in a more broad, long-term view...
While you contend that "most teams" would have taken the year Young produced last season, the fact is that with regard to CF's, his type of offense is not what is typical for CF's on successful teams...
This is the dilemma for the D-backs... As I've said, Young represents a dangerous trap. Loads of talent (a dime a dozen in the bigs)... Enough spark to periodically catch your eye and great speed and glove...
Yet, what a championship team requires and more often than not, gets from their CF is what I've said time and again, and what Young has yet to produce...
How long do the D-back stick with him? What is he finishes this season on a par to where he is now?
This is why it's fun to be a fan and not the GM, who has to make these sort of gut-wrenching decisions...
Indeed... and stats in baseball typically don't lie... particularly when taken in a more broad, long-term view...
While you contend that "most teams" would have taken the year Young produced last season, the fact is that with regard to CF's, his type of offense is not what is typical for CF's on successful teams...
This is the dilemma for the D-backs... As I've said, Young represents a dangerous trap. Loads of talent (a dime a dozen in the bigs)... Enough spark to periodically catch your eye and great speed and glove...
Yet, what a championship team requires and more often than not, gets from their CF is what I've said time and again, and what Young has yet to produce...
How long do the D-back stick with him? What is he finishes this season on a par to where he is now?
This is why it's fun to be a fan and not the GM, who has to make these sort of gut-wrenching decisions...
No way do you give up on him now - too much "potential", too big a risk he goes Carlos Quenton on us...
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Ironically, I agree with you... However, if he does not show any meaningful improvement by the end of the year, I could be ok with the team making a trade... Though I have to admit, I have no idea what they have down on the farm that would represent anything closer to what they need from a CF... If they can find a more prototypical CF in a trade, I'd be up for that...
The harsh reality is that the D-backs don't win games because of Chris Young... They win because of their pitching...
