Dallas @ Phoenix - Game Thread - Sunday April 1, 2007 - 12:30PM (3:30PM ET) ABC

[TucsonDevil]

JR and Amare had a prolonged argument about something during the game. Anyone catch what that was about?

JR was convinced he would hit another shot before the end of the season... Amare told him to hang it up, it was over.

JR proved him wrong in the final seconds by hitting that three.

 

[RingtheBell]

JR told him he was the real "Black Jesus"

 

[elindholm]

All the Dampier-haters need to rethink their position after this game. The Suns played great, but a big reason that they were able to do what they wanted -- as well as be competitive on the boards -- was Dampier's absence. He makes a bigger difference than most people on this board want to think. Without him, Dallas had to try to match up small, mainly with Nowitzki at center at Howard at PF, and that's very difficult for them.

 

[TJ]

The Dampier abscense had a negative effect on the game, but I think we still would have won with the effort we put up

 

[HooverDam]

Dampier wouldn't have made much of a difference in my opinion. Notice the Suns didn't play KT either. With Dampier in, the Suns would've used KT more and probably been competitive on the boards.

 

[SO91]

All the Dampier-haters need to rethink their position after this game. The Suns played great, but a big reason that they were able to do what they wanted -- as well as be competitive on the boards -- was Dampier's absence. He makes a bigger difference than most people on this board want to think. Without him, Dallas had to try to match up small, mainly with Nowitzki at center at Howard at PF, and that's very difficult for them.

Having Dampier injured hurt Dallas today, but they still had Diop and Avery still insisted on going small. I've heard people describe Diop and Dampier as interchangable in their system. Is that not the case anymore?

 

[elindholm]

I've heard people describe Diop and Dampier as interchangable in their system.

Who said that? Dampier is a much better player. Diop has five good games a month and is a no-show the rest of the time.

 

[Covert Rain]

All the Dampier-haters need to rethink their position after this game. The Suns played great, but a big reason that they were able to do what they wanted -- as well as be competitive on the boards -- was Dampier's absence. He makes a bigger difference than most people on this board want to think. Without him, Dallas had to try to match up small, mainly with Nowitzki at center at Howard at PF, and that's very difficult for them.

How so? Damp played the best he has evered played against the Suns last time and got 10 offensive rebounds and got worked in the paint defensively at the same time. The overall numbers for both games - Suns owned the paint despite Damp and his 10 last game.

Who says Damp would have had another good offensive rebounding game?? That is a big assumption considering how he has faired in the past and with Amare in there. My guess is that Amare would have had at least 6 more trips to the free throw line with Damp in there. He would not have made a difference in the outcome.

 

[SO91]

Who said that? Dampier is a much better player. Diop has five good games a month and is a no-show the rest of the time.

I can't give you an actual quote, but I could have sworn I've heard that before. I don't watch the Mavs so my opinion on them is based on only a few games a year, but lorenzo or the other Mavs fans can probably give a better opinion on the matter.

For what their C do in their system, there really isn't that much of a difference in stats between the two, as you claim.

Edit: I did only look at their number for March

 

[Arizona's Finest]

All the Dampier-haters need to rethink their position after this game. The Suns played great, but a big reason that they were able to do what they wanted -- as well as be competitive on the boards -- was Dampier's absence. He makes a bigger difference than most people on this board want to think. Without him, Dallas had to try to match up small, mainly with Nowitzki at center at Howard at PF, and that's very difficult for them.

Okay lets just calm down on the Dampier being the difference maker here. Does he help with rebounding and interior defense? Ya. Is he worth 19 points...ummm i don't think so. I would say of all the players the Mavs could miss and not lose a beat Dampier would be around the middle. Meaning their are 6 guys more important to him.

This validated what I have thought all along. We are a better team than them and we match up extremely well with Dallas. I say we are a 8 or so points better than them at Phoenix and we can beat them in Dallas too. I will give Dallas credit. Their role players make shots lke i have never seen before. Howard, Terry and Stack just routinely kill us with shots where it seems the defense is all good.

But like i said we match up very well with them. We can guard Dirk. They try to run with us. And they can't defend Nash AND Amare. Plus they have no mental edge over us...

Now as for the Spurs.......well lets say Thursday's game will be telling

 

[elindholm]

Well, okay, have it your way. The Mavericks and Suns have played four times this season. Three went down to the wire, and one was a blowout.

What was the difference in the blowout? The Suns shot the lights out and held their own on the boards.

Who was missing? Dampier.

Are those facts related? Apparently not.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well, okay, have it your way. The Mavericks and Suns have played four times this season. Three went down to the wire, and one was a blowout.

What was the difference in the blowout? The Suns shot the lights out and held their own on the boards.

Who was missing? Dampier.

Are those facts related? Apparently not.

Evidently Damp doesn't have much impact in the paint defensively either. Considering with or without him the Suns still own the made shots in the paint stat. I guess that fact should be overlooked?

 

[SO91]

Well, okay, have it your way. The Mavericks and Suns have played four times this season. Three went down to the wire, and one was a blowout.

What was the difference in the blowout? The Suns shot the lights out and held their own on the boards.

Who was missing? Dampier.

Are those facts related? Apparently not.

The Suns have shot the lights out in all the games against the mavs 55%, 51, 56. They have only been badly outrebounded in 2 of the 4 games, and actually won one of those.

 

[PetryJr]

Well, okay, have it your way. The Mavericks and Suns have played four times this season. Three went down to the wire, and one was a blowout.

What was the difference in the blowout? The Suns shot the lights out and held their own on the boards.

Who was missing? Dampier.

Are those facts related? Apparently not.

Though I do think that's a good point, it's important to point out a couple of things:

The thing that makes Dampier so valuable for Dallas when they're playing against Phoenix is his offensive rebounding. Remember, he grabbed 11 rebounds in that last game in Dallas, and they were all on the offensive end. Dallas had 27 offensive rebounds against 11 from Phoenix in that game.

Today, Dallas still had a large edge in that category (13-3). The reason Phoenix kept it close in terms of overall rebounding was their absolutely fantastic shooting percentage. The Suns had a lot of opportunities to grab defensive rebounds, while Dallas didn't have too many.

Maybe Dampier would have made a difference there. Maybe with him in the middle, the Suns wouldn't have shot at such a ridiculous clip. They still would have shot well, because they always do against the Mavs, so it's hard to say how much of a difference he would have made.

But it doesn't seem like his absence had much of an impact on rebounding. That's how I see it, at least.

 

[elindholm]

The thing that makes Dampier so valuable for Dallas when they're playing against Phoenix is his offensive rebounding.

Yes, but that's related to the Suns' defensive rebounding, which is their biggest weakness. (An offensive rebound by Dallas equals a failed defensive rebound by Phoenix.) Dampier also clogs up the middle and makes it more difficult for the Suns to get wide-open layups (as you say below).

Dallas had 27 offensive rebounds against 11 from Phoenix in that game.... Today, Dallas still had a large edge in that category (13-3).

I don't think that's the right statistic to look at. I'm more interested in Dallas's offensive rebounds versus Phoenix's defensive ones. If the Suns shoot 60-whatever percent, they won't have many opportunities to rebound their own misses, and they (correctly) tried to get back to slow down Dallas's running game. The question, to me, is how well they police their own defensive backboard. Today, they cut Dallas's offensive rebounds in half from the last meeting.

They still would have shot well, because they always do against the Mavs, so it's hard to say how much of a difference he would have made.

The Suns shot roughly 10 percentage points better today than they did in the earlier matchups. That's a huge difference.

 

[mribnik]

There's really no point in arguing about Dampier. Had he played he could've been a huge threat like the last game, or he could've been in foul trouble the entire game. Every team has to play a few games without key players, but I don't think that diminishes this win at all. The Suns were practically perfect today.

I was really impressed with Amare today. He wasn't exactly the go-to-guy on offense, but he let the game come to him and I don't recall him turning it over much. He had quite a few great passes, and he did a good job of passing out of the double team. He's slowly becoming a dominant all around player.

Did Kurt Thomas play at all?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Well, okay, have it your way. The Mavericks and Suns have played four times this season. Three went down to the wire, and one was a blowout.

What was the difference in the blowout? The Suns shot the lights out and held their own on the boards.

Who was missing? Dampier.

Are those facts related? Apparently not.

Here is my point. Yes Damp makes a difference in the rebounding (but i would say not in interior defense as Amare actually had 15 less points this game even though the total points inthe paint was higher) but not enough to the point where it makes Dallas a better team than us. I say we match up with them better than any other team in the league. Even the Heat - which have the necessary recipe for beating them as well (dynamic perimeter player, offensive inside presence, three point shooters) do not match up with them as well as we do.

With Damp the Mavs (assuming a healthy Suns team) take us to 6 maybe 7 games but i still say we eventually win. Without him they get swept or win one. We match up so well that the only advantage they have on us is when Damp and Diop are playing well and they just KILL us on the offensive boards.

Without that - they don't even stand a chance.

Which is exactly why we need to trade for KG should we lose to Dallas this year and Damp has a huge rebounding series

 

[ma_falaa_50]

kurt got like 3 seconds of play. I think Dampier gives dallas extra fouls. Diop is the better interior defender. Damp does help attack the glass.

the major offensive stat for this game is the suns shooting percentage.

 

[az1965]

Well, okay, have it your way. The Mavericks and Suns have played four times this season. Three went down to the wire, and one was a blowout.

What was the difference in the blowout? The Suns shot the lights out and held their own on the boards.

Who was missing? Dampier.

Are those facts related? Apparently not.

Not necessarily. Can't use one game as a data point. If it happens couple of more times then maybe we can say that MAY be the case...

 

[devilalum]

This is a good look for them.

You must be registered for see images

 

[PetryJr]

I don't think that's the right statistic to look at. I'm more interested in Dallas's offensive rebounds versus Phoenix's defensive ones. If the Suns shoot 60-whatever percent, they won't have many opportunities to rebound their own misses, and they (correctly) tried to get back to slow down Dallas's running game. The question, to me, is how well they police their own defensive backboard. Today, they cut Dallas's offensive rebounds in half from the last meeting.

Ok, now I can see what you're saying. The Mavs had 27 offensive rebounds against 27 defensive rebounds for Phoenix. Today, the Suns had a much better rate. Point well taken.

But I think it's important to consider what mribnik said. Dampier could've been a huge threat for Dallas, but he could also have been a non-factor, like he was in their second meeting back in December (0 points and 4 rebounds in 23 minutes). Though he's more consistent than Diop, he hasn't been very consistent against Phoenix over the last few years. In the playoffs last season, he only played 2 out of the 6 games of the series, and I don't think he was injured. He just wasn't very effective.

He is playing better overall this season, though.

 

[dodie53]

it sucks that i didn't see the game..

 

[elindholm]

But I think it's important to consider what mribnik said. Dampier could've been a huge threat for Dallas, but he could also have been a non-factor, like he was in their second meeting back in December (0 points and 4 rebounds in 23 minutes). Though he's more consistent than Diop, he hasn't been very consistent against Phoenix over the last few years. In the playoffs last season, he only played 2 out of the 6 games of the series, and I don't think he was injured. He just wasn't very effective.

Fair enough. But suffice it to say, I'd rather Dallas be without Dampier if the Suns meet them in the playoffs. The Suns could do pretty much what they wanted today. The only reason the first half was close was that Dallas couldn't miss from beyond the arc. Once that aberration corrected itself, it was game over.

 

[HooverDam]

How long is Dampier supposed to be out? I was watching the game at Majerles, and thus couldn't hear the sound.

 

[PetryJr]

Fair enough. But suffice it to say, I'd rather Dallas be without Dampier if the Suns meet them in the playoffs. The Suns could do pretty much what they wanted today. The only reason the first half was close was that Dallas couldn't miss from beyond the arc. Once that aberration corrected itself, it was game over.

Oh, I totally agree with that. Dallas didn't look good at all on defense without Dampier.