DAMN IT!!! Johnson tells Suns not to match Atlanta's offer

[George O'Brien]

Perhaps the low ball offer did offend him. Too bad. The Suns tried to do the right thing to keep the team together without getting killed in luxury tax. In any case, the Suns have made several moves to clear contracts to make it possible to keep him. If it isn't love, it is certainly awfully strong "like".

As Joe Mama and others have pointed out, RFA's go through this routine all the time. They say all kinds of things and then turn around and return to their former teams as if nothing had happened.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

If I were the Suns I would ask for some of the best young talent on Atlanta's squad staring with Marvin Williams,

Can't get Williams since he signed his rookie deal already. Have to wait till December to be traded.

I don't see what the uproar is all about. Players do this all the time when they are RFAs. They have to make it sound like they want to leave in order to get the offer in the first place. Teams don't extend max contracts when they think they are being used for leverage.....

If the Suns match, and they still should, Joe will come back and be great. It is as simple as that.

 

[az1965]

Republic reports...



Johnson tells Suns owner not to match Hawks' offer

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 30, 2005 12:00 AM

Joe Johnson told ESPN.com Friday that he wants Phoenix to let him go to Atlanta.

ESPN.com reported that Johnson told Suns managing owner Robert Sarver this week that he would rather Phoenix not match the Hawks' five-year, $70 million offer sheet. He can sign the offer Tuesday, leaving the Suns a week to match and retain him.

Johnson told ESPN.com that the Suns still plan to match the offer, although a sign and trade could develop and would not have to match in salaries because Atlanta has cap room. advertisement




Johnson spoke out while in Toronto for Steve Nash's charity game.

"It's a lot of things," Johnson told ESPN.com. "How things were handled last summer (Sarver declined to give him $50 million for six years), how things have been handled this summer (Phoenix offered $60 million for six years). There's been some things going on that aren't great."

Johnson has not returned calls and canceled an early July meeting. His distaste for Phoenix is well known, according to other teams' officials. Talks turned nastier last week.

Johnson, 24, was wooed favorably by Atlanta, which told him he could be an All-Star and franchise face as a point guard. The Little Rock native prefers the South. Those close to him said he felt overlooked in the Suns' star pecking order.

Nash told ESPN.com that he tried to persuade him to stay.

"I would come back and work as hard as I ever have," Johnson told ESPN.com. "If they match, all this stuff is behind me from that minute on. I hope everybody puts everything behind them, too."

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'm sorry, this really pisses me off, and makes me severely question Johnson's will to win. This is McDyess part two, yet we have the option to get JJ back. I mean we're talking about a questionable max player who has never made it to an all star game who wants to go to a losing team instead of staying with a team that has a legitimate shot at a title, let alone a string of title contending teams. Also the BS whining about being the third or the fourth option; watch the other max players like Kobe and T-Mac. Perhaps you'll realize that they demand the ball in clutch time, and don't just stand on the perimeter to hit open threes. Take over games and you'll be a first or second option.

This decision could very well make the franchise and take us to the championship level if Johnson progresses, or keep us tantalizingly close if he stays the same/plays worse... This has turned into a very strange set of circumstances, and a brushfire has turned into a wildfire. You can't trust the quiet guys, they're the ones that surprise you...

 

[HooverDam]

What absolutely amazes the hell out of me is listening to Johnson talk about what the Suns "haven't done for him".

Well, let's talk about what the Suns HAVE done to accomodate this guy..

First, they all but gave a potent scorer and a first round draft pick the hell away. Yes, Thomas makes the Suns a better team defensively, but was he worth a 1st and a guy like Richardson? Probably not. That was mainly done to shed salary to accomodate Johnson's contractual demands. Same with Voshkul. No, Jake wasn't an All Star, but the fact was they gave him away, once again to save cap space.

Secondly, the Suns have gone out of their way to let it be known that Johnson was their #1 Priority this post-season. I don't know how much more they could have stated it to the media. It almost got naseauting (sic) listening to it, but they certainly made it known.

Truth be told, this all sucks. I can't think of a better way to put it.

Not to mention how they had faith in him when no one else did. When they couldve been giving Penny Hardaway the lions share of the minutes, they gave them to Joe, to let him develop. With out the Suns and their coaching staff, I don't think we wouldve ever seen the JJ we see today.

 

[overseascardfan]

Republic reports...



Johnson tells Suns owner not to match Hawks' offer

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 30, 2005 12:00 AM

Joe Johnson told ESPN.com Friday that he wants Phoenix to let him go to Atlanta.

ESPN.com reported that Johnson told Suns managing owner Robert Sarver this week that he would rather Phoenix not match the Hawks' five-year, $70 million offer sheet. He can sign the offer Tuesday, leaving the Suns a week to match and retain him.

Johnson told ESPN.com that the Suns still plan to match the offer, although a sign and trade could develop and would not have to match in salaries because Atlanta has cap room. advertisement




Johnson spoke out while in Toronto for Steve Nash's charity game.

"It's a lot of things," Johnson told ESPN.com. "How things were handled last summer (Sarver declined to give him $50 million for six years), how things have been handled this summer (Phoenix offered $60 million for six years). There's been some things going on that aren't great."

Johnson has not returned calls and canceled an early July meeting. His distaste for Phoenix is well known, according to other teams' officials. Talks turned nastier last week.

Johnson, 24, was wooed favorably by Atlanta, which told him he could be an All-Star and franchise face as a point guard. The Little Rock native prefers the South. Those close to him said he felt overlooked in the Suns' star pecking order.

Nash told ESPN.com that he tried to persuade him to stay.

"I would come back and work as hard as I ever have," Johnson told ESPN.com. "If they match, all this stuff is behind me from that minute on. I hope everybody puts everything behind them, too."

Looking at that last quote I think he is getting back at Sarver and will play for us if we match. Can't say Sarver didn't deserve this.

 

[az1965]

These are just games agents, owners, and players play. I wouldn't care how all this transpired if we match, do well next season, and go deep in the playoffs again.

 

[Errntknght]

JJ and his agent know well that there is a mechinism by which he can force his way off the team - take the teams tender offer and after one year he's an unrestricted FA. If he doesn't take that path he's not that serious about leaving.

I never thought he'd go this length but I guess his feelings are hurt by being offered a mere 60 million. I know just how he feels

Frankly, with his frequent pathetic games at home he hasn't shown that he's worth 60 mil.

As far as being the fourth option, the only reason he wasn't further up the ladder is that he doesn't assert himself often enough.

It's interesting that he sees himself being most productive as the PG of a team - he sure didn't look like that whenever he was running the team here. Making the rash assumption that it is true, what's best for him may still not be what's best for the team - with Nash around, it borders on the absurd to say the Suns are better off with JJ at point. Heck, if we hadn't gotten Nash and he'd been the PG, the team would likely have struggled and he'd want to leave because he was forced to play out of position.

Match and we'll boo his sorry butt when he plays like a wimp.

 

[devilalum]

Not to mention how they had faith in him when no one else did. When they couldve been giving Penny Hardaway the lions share of the minutes, they gave them to Joe, to let him develop. With out the Suns and their coaching staff, I don't think we wouldve ever seen the JJ we see today.

They gave Q a fat frontloaded contract last summer then tried to low ball JJ. JJ knew he was a better player. All he wanted was $50 million over 6 which was slightly more than Q got. The Suns balked and have been backpeddling ever since.

SARVER BLEW IT!

Now he's gonna pay and he only has himself to blame. I sure hope everybody boos this A$$ Clown the first time he gets up and starts his clown routine next season at AWA.

 

[Sundance]

I'm in the sign and trade him camp. No good players, no deal, however.


It's likely best for his career if he goes to the Atlanta Hawks. At such a young age, the personal glory that he could possibly be achieved in Atlanta trumps the possibility of the championship he could achieve here, as the 4th wheel. I can understand that and wish him the best of luck, provided we get compensation.

 

[sly fly]

I hate this.

Atlanta? Atlanta?! You're talking 'bout Atlanta! (Thanks AI).

See you back in PHX, Joe. You will be thanking Sarver for matching. You have something special here. When you hit your prime (28-29), you'll be a little bit more wiser... and realize you made the right decision.

 

[George O'Brien]

There is no sign and trade with the Hawks that gets the Suns past the Spurs. Besides, after all the posturing, what matters is:

"Johnson, though, insists that his play and commitment to the Suns wouldn't be affected if a signed Hawks offer sheet results in a return to the desert.

'I would come back and work as hard as I ever have,' Johnson said. 'If they match, all this stuff is behind me from that minute on. I hope everybody [in Phoenix] puts everything behind them, too'."

Let's face it, if JJ was serious he could do a Jimmy Jackson and refuse to report. You can't make a guy play. By stating the fact that he will report and play hard, JJ admits he will not use that threat to force the Suns hands. (Not getting $70 million would be something of a negative when trying to make that threat work. )

 

[coloradosun]

There is no sign and trade with the Hawks that gets the Suns past the Spurs.

There is a sign and trade with NO that I would consider.

Magloire and Claxton

for

JJ

Magloire, Thomas and Amare rotation to the front line would compete with the Spurs.

There would be a lot pressure for Jim Jackson to become a deadeye. This would also allow Barbosa to play the 2 instead of backup point guard. The other intangible is Raja and I think his offense has always been underrated and he could actually become a starter and let JJ2 come off the bench.

 

[PetryJr]

Guys, take it for what it's worth...

This is a post by a Canadian guy at the Hoopsworld board:

I ended up working at a club that hosted the afterparty for Steve Nash's charity in toronto - we were doing some media drops for stuff...not important.... anyway, JJ gives his little shout out and says "Hey, this is Joe Johnson of the phoenix suns, blah blah blah" and im like great and joked around saying now do we need to do a second take saying "Hey, this is Joe Johnson of the hawks?" and the room went from jokes to silent. He went on to tell me that suns were matching the offer and it was pretty much a done deal, and two of the owners had come to toronto (and were actually at the club with him and Marion).

 

[baltimorer]

It's just posturing. It's contract negotiations.

After all, Joe Johnson isn't so stupid that he'd forget about the last 4 years of his NBA career, when the Phoenix Suns stuck with JJ no matter how bad he sucked in games. He couldn't forget how, even when the Suns played better with Penny Hardaway in the game, Frank Johnson went with JJ when he should've sat his inconsistent (or consistently bad) a$$ on the bench. He couldn't forget how, even when Penny didn't play well, Casey Jacobsen was actually looking better than him for a while. And I'm sure he realizes that, if the Suns didn't stick with him after he started out the season 1-11 against the Spurs in 2002-2003, he'd probably be getting $35 million offers right now.

So it must be contract negotiations.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

There is a sign and trade with NO that I would consider.

Magloire and Claxton

for

JJ

that team would finish 4th in the west.

The Suns are taking the right approach. match the hawks offer for JJ and move on. I will.

 

[redsox]

People keep on saying JJ should be thanking Sarver for not giving him a contract last year, enabling him to make more money this year. I am not sure that is how JJ is looking at the situation.

Nobody has mentioned what might have been going through Joe Johnson's mind when he was injured during the playoffs. Getting four metal plates put into your eye socket is a big deal. You don't think he was initially worried about his health and career being in jeopardy? You don't think he was wishing he had a long term contract at the moment? You don't think that incident might have increased his anger towards Sarver about his past contract negotiations?

Players care about long term contracts because they know they are one injury away from being forgotten and thrown to the curb. The security that a contract brings is a big deal to these players.

I am not saying this is the sole reason why JJ wants to go to Atlanta. I am just saying that this probably crossed JJ's mind while he was laying on the floor or staying in the hospital with a broken skull - (fractured face).

 

[ASUCHRIS]

They gave Q a fat frontloaded contract last summer then tried to low ball JJ. JJ knew he was a better player. All he wanted was $50 million over 6 which was slightly more than Q got. The Suns balked and have been backpeddling ever since.

SARVER BLEW IT!

Now he's gonna pay and he only has himself to blame. I sure hope everybody boos this A$$ Clown the first time he gets up and starts his clown routine next season at AWA.

They didn't low ball JJ. If you asked anyone here if they thought that JJ deserved a max contract last year they would have thought you were crazy. JJ was horrendously inconsistent two years ago and need to prove that he would step up before he was extended, even before getting 6 years and 50 million, around Ginobli numbers. Should he be making more than Ginobli? If he is pissed about that, then he should learn something about investing...I'm not a huge Sarver fan, but I can't blame him too much for how he's handled this.

 

[KloD]

If it is security he seeks, he could have signed the offer last summer. He chose to turn it down and play without the security he so desires.

Joe Johnson may well become a star in this league, but I've seen far more bad basketball from him than good. He had a very nice season playing in a great system. How many times have we seen this in a guy and then he signs a big contract only to fade the rest of his career. I personally have not seen enough in Joe to offer more than the Suns did. Just because a desperate team like Atlanta is willing to pay him that much does not mean the Suns should. I'd prefer a sign and trade with Atlanta or get a third team involved.

 

[Chaz]

I agree with the general consensus.

None of this will mean anything once this is over.

Match the offer and move on. Atlanta will not /can not give back equal value for JJ and the Suns will not let him go without compensation.


This is posturing and doesn't change a thing as far as I am concerned.


It does reduce the already slim chance that the Suns could reach an agreement with JJ before he signs an offer from Atlanta.

 

[JS22]

If it is security he seeks, he could have signed the offer last summer. He chose to turn it down and play without the security he so desires.

Joe Johnson may well become a star in this league, but I've seen far more bad basketball from him than good. He had a very nice season playing in a great system. How many times have we seen this in a guy and then he signs a big contract only to fade the rest of his career. I personally have not seen enough in Joe to offer more than the Suns did. Just because a desperate team like Atlanta is willing to pay him that much does not mean the Suns should. I'd prefer a sign and trade with Atlanta or get a third team involved.

If Phoenix could somehow get ahold of Josh Smith and and unprotected #1 then JJ leaving wouldnt sting so much. I'd even consider doing a S&T for just Smith, if JJ REALLY does not want to come back, and may become a cancer.

If phoenix could get Finley as a band-aid I dont think the Suns would lose much, if any, ground next year. They might actually be a bit better. If you were a GM, and lets say hypothetically someone offered you a trade of: Finley, Smith, and the Hawks unprotected #1 for JJ, would you turn it down? I'm not so sure that I would...

Nash
Finley
Marion
Amare
Thomas

Jackson
Bell
Smith
Padgett
Burke

Barbosa
Tischer

Graham?

That is a loaded team, imo. The bench could actually compete with a few starting lineups if the PF and C spot werent so questionable.

 

[Chaz]

If Phoenix could somehow get ahold of Josh Smith and and unprotected #1 then JJ leaving wouldnt sting so much. I'd even consider doing a S&T for just Smith, if JJ REALLY does not want to come back, and may become a cancer.

If phoenix could get Finley as a band-aid I dont think the Suns would lose much, if any, ground next year. They might actually be a bit better. If you were a GM, and lets say hypothetically someone offered you a trade of: Finley, Smith, and the Hawks unprotected #1 for JJ, would you turn it down? I'm not so sure that I would...

Nash
Finley
Marion
Amare
Thomas

Jackson
Bell
Smith
Padgett
Burke

Barbosa
Tischer

Graham?

That is a loaded team, imo. The bench could actually compete with a few starting lineups if the PF and C spot werent so questionable.

I think it would take Smith for me to consider it.

I don't think Atlanta would do that.

Combinations of Diaw, Harrington, Delk, Childress or other various pieces won't cut it IMO.

 

[JS22]

I think it would take Smith for me to consider it.

I don't think Atlanta would do that.

Combinations of Diaw, Harrington, Delk, Childress or other various pieces won't cut it IMO.

Agree.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of this is just agent posturing, but if JJ sersiously does not want to come back, then a S&T deal for Smith is all that I would accept. A number 1 would be VERY nice, but I doubt ATL would do it.

 

[Joe Mama]

I'm sorry, this really pisses me off, and makes me severely question Johnson's will to win. This is McDyess part two, yet we have the option to get JJ back. I mean we're talking about a questionable max player who has never made it to an all star game who wants to go to a losing team instead of staying with a team that has a legitimate shot at a title, let alone a string of title contending teams. Also the BS whining about being the third or the fourth option; watch the other max players like Kobe and T-Mac. Perhaps you'll realize that they demand the ball in clutch time, and don't just stand on the perimeter to hit open threes. Take over games and you'll be a first or second option.

This decision could very well make the franchise and take us to the championship level if Johnson progresses, or keep us tantalizingly close if he stays the same/plays worse... This has turned into a very strange set of circumstances, and a brushfire has turned into a wildfire. You can't trust the quiet guys, they're the ones that surprise you...

I'm sorry. This really is not anything like the Antonio McDyess fiasco. Everybody including Antonio McDyess knew that the Phoenix Suns were ready to throw everything they could his way (monetarily) to bring him back. He turned that down to take less money with a crappy team. In this case the Phoenix Suns tried to lowball him this summer while another team offered him all the money they could and blew sunshine up his a** about being the centerpiece of the team and an All-Star in the East.

More importantly Antonio McDyess was clearly not going to be the third or fourth option on that Phoenix Suns team. Despite how Danny Ainge under used him it was clear that they wanted to build that team around Jason Kidd and the Antonio McDyess. In this case I could see how JJ could feel that he might not have a chance to be a first or second option behind Amare Stoudemire, Steve Nash, and Shawn Marion. I think he would be wrong, but I couldn't see how he would feel that way. It's the reason I thought he would try to force his way to Cleveland.

that team would finish 4th in the west.

The Suns are taking the right approach. match the hawks offer for JJ and move on. I will.

Amen. fourth might even be generous. That's a slow team that does the opposite of what the Phoenix Suns wanted to do. I would be extremely upset with a sign and trade for Magloire and Claxton. Besides, New Orleans does not want JJ for 5 years/$70 million. They have their point guard. They have their shooting guard. They just acquired their small forward.

At this point if there was going to be a sign and trade (I believe they will match) it would almost certainly have to be with Atlanta or Atlanta and a third team.

They didn't low ball JJ. If you asked anyone here if they thought that JJ deserved a max contract last year they would have thought you were crazy. JJ was horrendously inconsistent two years ago and need to prove that he would step up before he was extended, even before getting 6 years and 50 million, around Ginobli numbers. Should he be making more than Ginobli? If he is pissed about that, then he should learn something about investing...I'm not a huge Sarver fan, but I can't blame him too much for how he's handled this.

I agree. To all those people who keep bringing up those two months after the Phoenix Suns traded Marbury and Hardaway please think about this. During that time JJ was the first option most nights. Amare was injured for much of that time. Most of the offense ran through JJ. That team was not very good.

The Phoenix Suns knew they were bringing in Steve Nash and someone else. I'm sure Sarver was concerned, and rightfully so, that JJ would fall back into his incredibly inconsistent ways once he did not have the basketball in his hands all the time. $50 million would have been a lot to pay him last summer. It would not have been outrageous, but it was a lot. I can't fault Sarver for playing it safe. It just didn't pan out in a big way.

It was this summer where they really screwed the pooch.

They'll match the offer, JJ will play a bigger part in the offense this year, he'll be perfectly happy playing here, and everybody will be fine. I completely understand why fans would boo Antonio McDyess. He deserved it. JJ would not.

Joe Mama

 

[Joe Mama]

I think it would take Smith for me to consider it.

I don't think Atlanta would do that.

Combinations of Diaw, Harrington, Delk, Childress or other various pieces won't cut it IMO.

Josh Smith is a very exciting basketball player. He has incredible athleticism. I know I'm going to catch some flak for this, but Childress and even Diaw are better basketball players. I've watched Atlanta a couple times in the summer league already. I saw quite a few Atlanta games last year. Josh Smith at this point is a Darius Miles. He'll block some shots, grab some rebounds, and throw down some amazing dunks, but I'm not sure he'll ever do anything more than that.

I don't think it really matters though. I don't think the Atlanta Hawks would part with Childress, Josh Smith, and certainly not Marvin Williams (it's not even possible) in a sign and trade. If the Phoenix Suns felt they had to do a sign and trade I expect they would get Diaw (I really like this guy by the way), draft picks, possibly the rights to David Anderson, and there's a slight chance Harrington might be included in a deal.

I'm sure I'll catch some flak for this as well, but let me give you guys my take on Diaw. If he had a consistent outside shot he would be a very, very good player. He can already handle the ball as well as JJ, and after watching to summer league games and some clips from last year I think he might already be a better passer. JJ is probably a better defender now, but the difference is not big. Diaw isn't quite as big as JJ, but he's taller , longer, and a little more athletic. his mid range and short jumper looked very good in the games I saw in the summer league although he's not very aggressive as a scorer. I believe he made the only three-pointer I saw him take, but his three-point shooting percentage last year was awful (around 20% I believe).

I don't want a sign and trade. I want the Phoenix Suns to match the offer for Joe Johnson. It could cause problems down the road. I realize that. I think they are very close to being a championship team, and dealing JJ or simply failing to match would hurt their chances.

If the Phoenix Suns did a sign in trade and they got back Diaw, Harrington, and a top-five protected draft pick I wouldn't be happy, but I don't think I would cry. there are probably a few other packages I could live with as well, but there just aren't a lot of options from Atlanta.

Joe Mama