DAMN IT!!! Johnson tells Suns not to match Atlanta's offer

[zgjimmaL]

I'm not really upset with JJ at all. He never said he would hate to return to the Phoenix Suns. He just said he would prefer to go to the Atlanta Hawks. I saw this one coming a few months ago. I just thought he would want to go to Cleveland where he could be the wing man to LeBron James.

Atlanta showed him more love this summer than the Phoenix Suns did. Sure, the Suns have said they are willing to match any offer, but they forced someone else to give it to him first. Once Michael Redd, Ray Allen, and Larry Hughes got their deals it should have been clear that it was going to take at least the maximum another team could offer to keep JJ.

Match him. He'll be happy next season. Everything will be fine.

Joe Mama

a perfect BC !

 

[F-Dog]

They didn't low ball JJ. If you asked anyone here if they thought that JJ deserved a max contract last year they would have thought you were crazy. JJ was horrendously inconsistent two years ago and need to prove that he would step up before he was extended, even before getting 6 years and 50 million, around Ginobli numbers. Should he be making more than Ginobli? If he is pissed about that, then he should learn something about investing...I'm not a huge Sarver fan, but I can't blame him too much for how he's handled this.

I didn't say max at the time, but I said he deserved $60m over 6 years, which is apparently $10m more than the Suns could have got him for.


Anyway, everything that's happened so far makes sense to me. The Suns threatened to match any offer to drive away other suitors, Atlanta volunteered to offer a deal anyway. The Suns then claimed to have second thoughts, to try and get Joe & Arn Tellum back to the negotiating table. Those two called Sarver's bluff. Now, the Suns make a move (Voskuhl) that makes it obvious they're going to match. So, Joe says he wants to play in Atlanta instead, which should create enough doubt for the Hawks to keep their offer on the table.


I won't pretend to know what Joe Johnson is really thinking, or what will happen after the Suns match. If he acts like a jerk next year, they'll probably bite the $20m bullet and dump him next summer; at least that way, they'll get more in return than they would talking S&T with Atlanta this summer.

 

[George O'Brien]

a perfect BC !

Welcome aboard.

I'm not that taken with Josh Smith. Right now he looks like a very raw version of an early Shawn Marion. This is not a replacement for the Sun's best half court wing.

 

[PakistaniRambo]

i understand why Sarver was hesitant to sign JJ last summer. But the fact remains, the negotiation for both sides were seperated by 4 million dollars. thats pretty freaking close. So i still think sarver screwed up last summer, he admits he did.

 

[George O'Brien]

i understand why Sarver was hesitant to sign JJ last summer. But the fact remains, the negotiation for both sides were seperated by 4 million dollars. thats pretty freaking close. So i still think sarver screwed up last summer, he admits he did.

That's PER YEAR.

The separation is really enormous. The Suns offered $60 for 6 years and JJ is getting $75 for 5, which translates into $90 for 6. It is so much that it is likely to force Sarver to break up the team in a year or so to avoid being buried in luxury tax.

Some people compare this to the Q offer. The Suns did not give an exceptionally big offer for Q. The Clippers decision not to match was not really financial as much as it was a reflection of the makeup their team. Yes, Sterling is cheap, but it was more a basketball decision (he and Maggette played a very similar style) than a financial one.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

That's PER YEAR.

He was talking about last summer when they were 5 million apart on the total contract value.

 

[George O'Brien]

He was talking about last summer when they were 5 million apart on the total contract value.

Last summer was simply dumb. I'm sure it will come up another 10,000 times, but it really is a "what's the point" issue. The only real point is whether Sarver simply admits he made a mistake or tries to pretend he didn't and proceeds to compound it.

Basketball is like poker. You play the hand you are delt. If you discarded when you should have held pat, that's the nature of the game. Worrying about past mistakes makes little difference unless it helps to avoid making future ones. My guess is that the Suns won't try to low ball a up and coming star for a while, so why fixate on it?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Last summer was simply dumb. I'm sure it will come up another 10,000 times, but it really is a "what's the point" issue. The only real point is whether Sarver simply admits he made a mistake or tries to pretend he didn't and proceeds to compound it.

Basketball is like poker. You play the hand you are delt. If you discarded when you should have held pat, that's the nature of the game. Worrying about past mistakes makes little difference unless it helps to avoid making future ones. My guess is that the Suns won't try to low ball a up and coming star for a while, so why fixate on it?

I was just pointing out that your response to him was based on a misunderstanding of what he wrote.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here's how I view the sign and trade issue with Atlanta.

Essentially what Atlanta is willing to give up really establishes JJ's true value to their team.

If all Atlanta is willing to give up for JJ is scrubs, then this should send a clear message to JJ that this is all he is worth to them... that he is just another good role player with some upside that happens to be available in a good market for wings.

Now, hypothetically, what would a Atlanta give up for Elton Brand, Allen, Kobe, Ming, Shaq or any other star player if they were available. I think Atlanta would consider giving up some serious talent for them.

I would rather match JJ or let him become a FA with the Suns after next year than give him to Atlanta.

I'm sure some other team will give us much better value for JJ now in a sign and trade or in December (if JJ signs Atlanta's offer sheet) and the Suns match.

Too bad Denver is in the Western Conference. I think Boykins and Nene would help the Suns. I think Boykins alone would extend the career of Nash... I'm not sure where Nene is at, but he still has a lot of upside and he is Brazilian. He could join Tischer and Barbosa and the Suns could corner the Brazilian market.

Also I like that NO sign and trade proposal nearly as well (maybe better) with Claxton and Magliore. Also let me say I still covet Pachulia as a player from the Bucks. It would probably have to involve a three way trade to acquire him.

The bottom line, I'm down on JJ and Atlanta. It may be business but I take it personal as a Suns fan. I down't think JJ would be half the player he is today if Phoenix had not invested so much effort and playing time with him.

 

[Stoner]

This upsets me greatly.

How dare you Joe Johnson. We stuck by you for 3 years when your ego was at its fragilest. We were loyal to you and encouraged you when you really didn't even deserve the playing time, much less the starting SG spot. And now when you have finally made it and all the hard work has paid off, you want to shaft us so you can be "the man" on a terrible Atlanta squad? How dare you Joe Johnson?

I say we match the offer. I say we match for the sum that he's not quite worth, because we can't lose him for nothing, or inferior compensation. And I'm sure it will all be forgotten when the season is in full swing and we're destroying the league.

However, it will be tough to forget. And it will be very tough not to continue to harbor resentment for Joe. When we win it all and everyone is celebrating, I won't be able to help but to look at Joe and tell him that he doesn't deserve this and that he should be watching this at home in Atlanta.

Oh well. I guess we'll all get over it eventually. Just sad.

How dare we force him to take a 70 million dollar payday and win a championship.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Drop JJ, sign payton?

Some people can say suns just resign and put this behind them but I think that is kind of far fetched at this point, JJ has drawn blood.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Looking at that last quote I think he is getting back at Sarver and will play for us if we match. Can't say Sarver didn't deserve this.

Thanks for bringing this

"I would come back and work as hard as I ever have," Johnson told ESPN.com. "If they match, all this stuff is behind me from that minute on. I hope everybody puts everything behind them, too."

to my attention. Although I had posted the article itself, this bottom part of the story really speaks a story in itself..

Essentially, I'm going to use the comparison another poster in this thread used. This really reminds me of the Elton Brand-Miami situation. He too told his team, the Clippers, not to match. The Clippers DID, and since then Brand has continued to play at his max abilities without causing problem. I do think Johnson at this point is saying that he wants to go to Atlanta, but if he IS re-signed, he's going to continue to play as though nothing happened. I've trashed some of his logic here, but I also stated I felt he was too professional to be an ass about things.

 

[devilalum]

Newsflash

Sarver Sucks!

I'm already sick of this guy. Sure would've been nice if the Suns could have found a buyer with really deep pockets and a shred of self respect.

Its bad enough that we have to watch this clown make a fool of himself flapping his arms like a chicken etc. at center court but now we have to also put up with his indecisive BS and hand wringing.

You can't have it both ways Sarver. Either you want to win and you cough up the bucks or the teams just a business and you go back to your miser clown cottage and count your pennies.

If you didn't want to win why did you buy a team? You could have signed JJ last summer but you didn't have the foresight to recognize that $50 million over 6 years was a bargain. Now you've gotta pay $70 million for 5 years and if JJ turns into the star we all hope you'll have to pay another $15 million for the 6th year. This will bring the grand total of your indecisive mistake to $35 million PLUS any luxury tax. Not to mention players you've had to trade or will trade next summer because of your screw up.

Even if he signs JJ I think the future of the franchise is on very shaky ground. There's only one other NBA owner that would even contemplate letting a solid young player walk as a restricted free agent.

You must be registered for see images

 

[SirStefan32]

Match the offer, and then send the little prick to the worst possible destination you can find.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

and that would punish him how? News flash he WANTS to go to the Hawks.

unless you mean send him to the Spurs he really frigen hate that

 

[George O'Brien]

JJ's comments had the provisio that if his salary is matched he will return and play hard. What more do you want? Hugs?

Seriously, this is all too silly. JJ is signing with the Hawks because he is getting a much better contract than the Suns offered. The Suns will match, reluctantly, because he is simply too good to lose and the Hawks don't have much to offer. This posturing is strictly to keep the Hawks on the hook and not let them withdraw their offer and thus cost JJ a bunch of money.

It's all a put on. Ignore it.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

JJ's comments had the provisio that if his salary is matched he will return and play hard. What more do you want? Hugs?

Seriously, this is all too silly. JJ is signing with the Hawks because he is getting a much better contract than the Suns offered. The Suns will match, reluctantly, because he is simply too good to lose and the Hawks don't have much to offer. This posturing is strictly to keep the Hawks on the hook and not let them withdraw their offer and thus cost JJ a bunch of money.

It's all a put on. Ignore it.

Agreed....but I'd use every last second of the time to make Atlanta sweat. Their fans all have their hopes up...and they will dissappointed when we match.

Just curious....Atlanta needs a point guard....and they wanted a "big" point to match with Childress....

...why didn't they just go after 6'7" Marco Jaric??? He averages 6.1 assists, 1.68 steals....and shoots .371 from 3 point range...and he's a tough guy point guard...not to mention, the Clippers probably wouldn't match a reasonable offer...which would come more cheaply than JJ. Now they end up with nothing...except anger from heartbroken fans.

 

[George O'Brien]

The Hawks aren't trying to sign good players. They are trying to create the illusion that clearing all this cap space was worth the awful seasons they've endured. Clearing all that space for Jaric won't cut it.

How did JJ become such a big deal? The playoffs gave the Suns national visibility and JJ played well. My guess is that no one in Atlanta has ever seen Jaric and the fact that he is losing his job to a high school guy can't really help his image. Jaric's pretty good, but "we waited three years for THIS?"

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

The Hawks aren't trying to sign good players. They are trying to create the illusion that clearing all this cap space was worth the awful seasons they've endured. Clearing all that space for Jaric won't cut it.

How did JJ become such a big deal? The playoffs gave the Suns national visibility and JJ played well. My guess is that no one in Atlanta has ever seen Jaric and the fact that he is losing his job to a high school guy can't really help his image. Jaric's pretty good, but "we waited three years for THIS?"

That would make sense if he was their only free agent aquisition...but they are reportedly going after multiple players (including Curry...and maybe even Hunter). Jaric may not be a household name, but for a team looking for a point guard (and a "big" point guard at that)...in a free agency short on quality point guards....Jaric would be a nice pickup...and they could overpay for one of Chicago's big men for the "splash" name signing. Besides...how do you think their fans will feel when their hopes and dreams have been placed on Atlanta's ability to sign JJ....(a RESTRICTED free agent)....whose team has openly said it would match all along. Just check the espn boards....Atlanta fans are filling the boards with smack...they truly believe JJ is coming. Most are simply not knowledgeable enough to understand that Phoenix can match (regardless what JJ is rumored to want). They are in for a major letdown.

Anyway...it appears whoever is calling the shots in Atlanta knows very little about assembling a team.

 

[asudevil83]

i got bored today so i came up with this:

Phoenix trades: JJ/Barbs/2006 First
Phoenix receives: Magloire/Childress

Atlanta trades: Harrington/Childress
Atlanta receives: JJ/Jaric

NO trades: Magloire
NO receives: Wilcox/Barbs/Phoenix 2006 First

Clips trade: Jaric/Wilcox
Clips receive: Harrington

everybody gets what they need. the suns are set up front....but would need to find a backup PG.
Atlanta gets their JJ and a starting PG
NO gets a underrated, cheap replacement for Magloire. Barbs gives them some backup backcourt depth.
LA gets a temporary replacement for the loss of simmons, while not giving up much at all.

everyone is happy, and we win it all next season.

 

[devilalum]

i got bored today so i came up with this:

Phoenix trades: JJ/Barbs/2006 First
Phoenix receives: Magloire/Childress

Atlanta trades: Harrington/Childress
Atlanta receives: JJ/Jaric

NO trades: Magloire
NO receives: Wilcox/Barbs/Phoenix 2006 First

Clips trade: Jaric/Wilcox
Clips receive: Harrington

everybody gets what they need. the suns are set up front....but would need to find a backup PG.
Atlanta gets their JJ and a starting PG
NO gets a underrated, cheap replacement for Magloire. Barbs gives them some backup backcourt depth.
LA gets a temporary replacement for the loss of simmons, while not giving up much at all.

everyone is happy, and we win it all next season.

Next time you're bored try looking at porn.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Anyway...it appears whoever is calling the shots in Atlanta knows very little about assembling a team.

If you talk to Atlanta fans that is exactly what they will say about Billy King. Keep in mind though that the ownership group just changed last season. It used to be owned by AOL Time Warner, but they were losing to much money. Steve Belkin now owns the team (the guy Bird paired with in an attempt to land the Charlotte expansion).

The guy seemed knowledgeable enough, and with that in mind King will probably be gone this season if they don't land a top player. It was King that shipped off Abdur Rahim and Ratliff for cap space claiming that Atlanta would be a big player. If Joe gets matched, this will make two summers where they were unsuccessful in spending their money.

New owners usually want to bring in their own guys, and I am guessing King knows that this is his make or break summer. That partly explains the JJ signing. Him and Curry are the two RFAs that could be stolen with max deals. He just needs to do SOMETHING this summer or else he is a goner.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

everybody gets what they need. the suns are set up front....but would need to find a backup PG.
Atlanta gets their JJ and a starting PG
NO gets a underrated, cheap replacement for Magloire. Barbs gives them some backup backcourt depth.
LA gets a temporary replacement for the loss of simmons, while not giving up much at all.

everyone is happy, and we win it all next season.

It actually is a pretty balanced trade. The only people that might lose out a bunch is the Clips. However they are going to lose Jaric anyways, and moving Wilcox for Harrington if a good move for them with.

That being said, I hate the idea of Magloire on the Suns. He doesn't play great defense and subpar rebounder for being a center. His career average is actually less than Amare's. He is mediocre on offense, but requires room in the post to operate.

I know people want to get more size on the team, but I think they should be more picky in who they get. They need an athletic big man that can play defense. Since those aren't exactly floating around, they need to get some guys that can put a body on people and hit a 15 footer (which they already have done).

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Gram that post made me want to cry it was so on the money.

below avg centers clogging up the post = fewer touches for Amare = suck team.

 

[cly2tw]

The guy seemed knowledgeable enough, and with that in mind King will probably be gone this season if they don't land a top player. It was King that shipped off Abdur Rahim and Ratliff for cap space claiming that Atlanta would be a big player. If Joe gets matched, this will make two summers where they were unsuccessful in spending their money.

New owners usually want to bring in their own guys, and I am guessing King knows that this is his make or break summer. That partly explains the JJ signing. Him and Curry are the two RFAs that could be stolen with max deals. He just needs to do SOMETHING this summer or else he is a goner.

If it's true, then King should try everything to convince Suns to sign-and-trade JJ to them. I'd be OK with JJ for Childress, Diaw, slightly protected 1st-round pick. I heard that Diaw is a great ballhandler and could also become Bowen-type of defender. That sounds good enough.