Damp hasn't heard much from Phx

[JS22]

Ok, I agree that it is a bad trade wastedfate, but you can't make claims like this.


You simply cannot add up stats for 2 players and compare them to 1 player. Someone else will do SOMETHING to take the place of the second player.

Especially when you figure those 27 points and 13 rebounds came in 67.1 minutes. Compare that to 12.3 boards and 12.3 points in less than half the time (32.5 mpg) for Damp.

I'm a bit tired (been working all day)

But hopefully you see my point!

 

[JS22]

And it wasnt even a GREAT year, it was just barely "good."

Now you're just being silly. Make the "contract year" argument all you want, since there's no way to know what will be in Dampier's head. But he had an excellent year last year. He was #4 in the league in rebounds per game, #1 in the league in offensive rebounds per game, and in the top 15 for blocks. And while he was at it, he threw in better than 12 points per game on 53.5% shooting (which, while we're at it, was #3 in the league).

If the Suns had a center anywhere near that good, the regulars on this board would be crapping their pants on a nightly basis.

Hey, I'd be ALL FOR bringing him in. But not at the expense of Marion and Casey! It's just too much for a guy who's had one good year!

 

[sly fly]

And it wasnt even a GREAT year, it was just barely "good."

Now you're just being silly. Make the "contract year" argument all you want, since there's no way to know what will be in Dampier's head. But he had an excellent year last year. He was #4 in the league in rebounds per game, #1 in the league in offensive rebounds per game, and in the top 15 for blocks. And while he was at it, he threw in better than 12 points per game on 53.5% shooting (which, while we're at it, was #3 in the league).

If the Suns had a center anywhere near that good, the regulars on this board would be crapping their pants on a nightly basis.

Great post.

And that, too.

 

[JS22]

I don't hate dampier.

I hate the thought of giving up Marion + Casey him.

 

[Joe Mama]

I think the biggest problem with Erick Dampier is that his contract is going to be a bad one. It's probably going to start at around $8 million for six years. The guy is already 30 years old. Forget about the contract year. Have you guys taken a look at his frontcourt teammates last year? Aside from himself to Golden State Warriors work easily the worst rebounding frontcourt in the NBA. He started alongside Clifford Robinson and Mike Dunleavy Jr.

That said, I think Erick Dampier would be a big improvement in the frontcourt for the Phoenix Suns. I also think Shawn Marion makes too much money and is generally overrated by fans. Shawn Marion is not currently an all-star. He was an all-star one time, and he was probably the final forward to make the team. But I don't like Erick Dampier for the money he is going to expect. Defensively and on the boards I think he would be a big help. Offensively he's going to clog the middle for Amare Stoudemire.

I'm not sure how real possibility is that the Phoenix Suns could get Divac, but I would prefer keeping the core and signing him for a couple years over any of these other options.

Joe Mama

 

[JS22]

Im not against Vlade signing either...But Im against getting Vlade over Richardson.

 

[elindholm]

I think the biggest problem with Erick Dampier is that his contract is going to be a bad one. It's probably going to start at around $8 million for six years. The guy is already 30 years old.

True, but the thing is, the Suns had better not be worrying about money four or five years down the road -- because if they are, they're already screwed. Nash will be well past his prime by that point, and Marion will most likely (in my opinion) be in decline. That's two players on eight-figure deals who, at that stage, really won't be worth that kind of money. Stoudemire will be on a maximum extension and (we hope) will be worth it, but that's still three large contracts right there. And we haven't even talked about Johnson and/or Richardson.

In other words, I think that the Suns are looking at the Lakers' fiasco, the possible breakup of the Kings, the disorientation in Dallas (which they helped engineer, of course), and the aging core of the Wolves, and they're thinking, hmm, maybe we should try to get ourselves in the thick of things sooner rather than later. And if that's true, it doesn't really matter how much money Dampier will be making in 2009-10, because the window of opportunity will have closed by then anyway.

 

[Maximus]

There are so many ways to look at this. Taking money out of the equation, and just looking at skill, I think I would like to see the Marion/CJ trade for Dampier. I don't like the idea of giving up Marion and CJ. But, if Q ends up a Sun, I think it certainly sets the stage for this to occur. With Marion and CJ, we'd be solid everywhere but Center, but with Dampier and Q, we'd be solid all around. Perhaps there's a slight dropoff from Marion to Q (or Marion to JJ, if that's how they want to do it), but I think Damp is a HUGE upgrade over anything we have at C.

Maximus

 

[Dave64]

FYI, Dampier had 41 double doubles last year! The Suns center of the last 30 years may come close to that as a group. He may be just a one year wonder, so getting him is risky, but you have to admit that 41 double doubles in one year is pretty good!

 

[klatk]

Damp's not worth it

While I've been disappointed with Marion's obvious unwillingness to take the ball to the basket anymore, I believe he's still valuable and is worth more than Damp.

I watched a lot of Warriors games when I lived in the bay area and I saw what happened right before and after he got his first big contract. He flat out doesn't play the game to play... it's not his passion, and once his financial motivation was removed that became glaringly obvious. He barely even bothered going through the motions. I'm convinced it'll happen again.

It's telling that the team that knows him best wasn't willing to resign him even though it's apparent that they were willing to pay crazy money to a career backup. Damp's not worth the money he's asking for, and he'll prove it. His numbers for whoever he ends up with will be pathetic. I'm extremely glad that it probably won't be with us.

 

[George O'Brien]

I really don't see the trade happening. I don't think Marion would do as well with GS and I'm sure Dampier would not put up the same kind of numbers with Phoenix.

Dampier was the only real inside guy on the Warriors once Murphy went down. Cliff Robinson was their PF and averaged 34.7 minutes a game, yet grabbed only 3.9 rpg. On the Suns, Amare will get a lot of rebounds and the Suns have other guys that can rebound.

Also, there were no other inside threats on the Warriors, but Amare is one of the top low post guys in the NBA.

Does that mean that Dampier would not be useful? Hardly. He is a tougher defender than Divac and a lot better than Traylor. But considering the kind of money he will be getting, he is going to be a huge disappointment where ever he goes. I say that even if he plays as well as he did and a lot of people question that. In any case, he will not sustain his stats and most likel return to the slightly above average he did before.

 

[JS22]

I was on the fence about bumping this, but I had to just for the sake of humor. It's incredibly entertaining to read posts from just a few years ago.

Anyone else satisfied with Marion over Dampier?

I love how I:

1 - Vehemently defended Jacobsen. (I remember thinking that he could become a 15/5 player.)

2 - Actually wanted Traylor. (Gah.)

3 - Assumed that Marbury was better than Nash. (And at the time it was a decent argument, but....wow.)

The love fest for Dampier was also pretty amazing. Contract years can be pretty deceiving. *cough* Tim Thomas. *cough* I won't bump any more threads, but I just couldn't turn this one down.

 

[tobiazz]

Yeah, I remember writing something like, "Let me get this straight, the Suns traded Marbury to free up cap space for Nash?" Haha, one of the reasons I voice my opinion still, but do not get mad if the Suns don't heed it. I trust there scouting more than mine (well, for the most part).

 

[elindholm]

I wanted Dampier, but that was partly because I thought the Suns might eventually move away from run-and-gun. Of course I was wrong there.

Dampier has been just fine for Dallas. He is rebounding and defending and limiting himself to high percentage shots. His rebound rate is much higher than anyone on the Suns, and he's a big reason that Dallas has one of the league's top defenses. He wouldn't work in Phoenix, but he is a good center and is playing well.

I'm one of the many who didn't project Nash as a two-time MVP, of course. The weirdest thing about dumping Marbury was doing it so quickly after giving him the huge extension. I hated the extension, but accepted it once the Suns convinced me that they loved Marbury. It's still amazing to me that they found (in Isiah Thomas) a sucker for that massive con job.

 

[AZBALLER]

No kidding...As much as I like Mike at the helm, I hope we don't miss the decisions that the Colangeli made...

 

[fordronken]

I wanted Dampier, but that was partly because I thought the Suns might eventually move away from run-and-gun. Of course I was wrong there.

Dampier has been just fine for Dallas. He is rebounding and defending and limiting himself to high percentage shots. His rebound rate is much higher than anyone on the Suns, and he's a big reason that Dallas has one of the league's top defenses. He wouldn't work in Phoenix, but he is a good center and is playing well.

I'm one of the many who didn't project Nash as a two-time MVP, of course. The weirdest thing about dumping Marbury was doing it so quickly after giving him the huge extension. I hated the extension, but accepted it once the Suns convinced me that they loved Marbury. It's still amazing to me that they found (in Isiah Thomas) a sucker for that massive con job.

The funniest quote from you earlier in this thread was being on the fence about a possible Marion/Jacobsen trade for Dampier and Mike Dunleavy. It made sense at the time, but now that would be pretty ridiculous.

 

[elindholm]

The funniest quote from you earlier in this thread was being on the fence about a possible Marion/Jacobsen trade for Dampier and Mike Dunleavy. It made sense at the time, but now that would be pretty ridiculous.

Well, that was before Dunleavy got that absurd extension. He'd be fine for MLE price. I still don't think that trade is so bad from a pure talent standpoint, but again, it would require the Suns to be a much different team from what they are. (It would also require that Joe Johnson was still here.)

 

[fordronken]

Well, that was before Dunleavy got that absurd extension. He'd be fine for MLE price. I still don't think that trade is so bad from a pure talent standpoint, but again, it would require the Suns to be a much different team from what they are. (It would also require that Joe Johnson was still here.)

Yeah, I agree. But even from a talent standpoint, I'd much rather have Marion. All three could be considered over paid, but one is clearly the least so.

 

[elindholm]

All three could be considered over paid, but one is clearly the least so.

According to hoopshype, Dampier makes $16.2 million between this year and next, while Marion makes $31.5 million. Is Marion "twice" the player Dampier is, whatever that means? I'm not so sure. I think given their positions and what the market is for approximately comparable players, it's not all that clear which one is more overpaid.

 

[msdundee]

According to hoopshype, Dampier makes $16.2 million between this year and next, while Marion makes $31.5 million. Is Marion "twice" the player Dampier is, whatever that means? I'm not so sure. I think given their positions and what the market is for approximately comparable players, it's not all that clear which one is more overpaid.

It evens out considerably if you factor in average minutes played per game.

 

[sly fly]

Wow... have times have changed. Although I stand behind my assessment of Marion at the time, there's no way in hell I'd take Dampier over Marion.

Dampier proved his emergence was the result of being in the "contract" year... while Marion just continues to produce night after night.

On top of that, Marion has improved his game immensely.

 

[JS22]

According to hoopshype, Dampier makes $16.2 million between this year and next, while Marion makes $31.5 million. Is Marion "twice" the player Dampier is, whatever that means? I'm not so sure. I think given their positions and what the market is for approximately comparable players, it's not all that clear which one is more overpaid.

Yes.

 

[Lorenzo]

this is an interesting thread back from the dead. I know there are a lot of damp bashers out there. he is clearly overpaid. but he brings something to the mavs that they didn't have before. offensive rebounding is his biggest asset. he has his moments, both good and bad, at the defensive end. but between he and diop......they are clearly an upgrade from bradley or anything else they had in the past. don't forget that bradley was stealing money too.

 

[JS22]

this is an interesting thread back from the dead. I know there are a lot of damp bashers out there. he is clearly overpaid. but he brings something to the mavs that they didn't have before. offensive rebounding is his biggest asset. he has his moments, both good and bad, at the defensive end. but between he and diop......they are clearly an upgrade from bradley or anything else they had in the past. don't forget that bradley was stealing money too.

I forgot about Bradley. What a waste of potential talent and size.

 

[Lynx280]

exactly! consistency is key