Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
In the face of those stats that is about the only argument you can make.
Dan Orlovsky QB Rankings
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Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Craziest 2021 Kyler Murray stat...13 fumbles, 0 lost.
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Except stats don't show the entire picture. Through 9 or 10 games of the season, he was an MVP candidate. The Cards weren't winning in spite of Murray during those games either.
Proximo
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It was basically the first 7 games, and you don't get to just forget the second half of the season's performance if you are making an honest evaluation.
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I'm not forgetting it. Being a top 2 or 3 QB for half of the season and top half or so for the 2nd half equals right around 10 for me.
kerouac9
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HE was 9th in DVOA and 7th in FO's QBR (which is adjusted for strength of opponent). I think that he's right around the top 10 although you can't really bang the table for him being top 5. The breakpoint of whether he's the 8th best QB or the 12th best feels pretty arbitrary to me.
middle of the pack QB. how many other teams say "if our guy was healthy, if our WRs were healthy, if our line was healthy..." about their QB? a lot.
talent only takes you so far.
Now do per game. Considering you're comparing 14 game totals with 17 game totals.
You said Carr top 10 is but Carr is worse in most of these.
kerouac9
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Not being able to play in every game is a relevant metric.
PACardsFan
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That’s because most of them were horrible snaps that miraculously he got a hand on & then had to fall on.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Fair. I can get behind the 10-12 range. @dreamcastrocks I will give you that he is closer to top 10 than top 16. Tough to argue that he is not better than Kirk Cousins, Jimmy G and Mac Jones who he was close to statistically.
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It is a minor point, but what else are we going to discuss during this boring time...
It is indeed. It still invalidates comparing totals though.
Did he?
They were 6-7 with 4 games remaining and out of the playoffs. They then won their last 4 to scrape in.
In those 4 the Vegas defense gave up 14 points to the Browns, 13 points to the Broncos and 20 points to the Colts. In those 3 games Carr had 3 TD's, 5 Interceptions and an average passer rating of 89. The offense averaged 18.6 points through those games. They were all clearly defensive wins.
Even in the final game vs the Chargers that they won 35-32 Carr only threw for 186 yards, 5.17 YPA and had a 55% comp % and 88 passer rating.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Yeah but probably half were horrid snaps.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Probably nearly all. I don't recall him fumbling on a run but maybe I'm forgetting 1 or 2.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Wait... so when it comes to data you agree with, everything matters (like PFF grades). When it comes to data that don't support your argument, it's "invalid" to put in the mix?
Hm.
No.
You can't say things like "Kyler isn't top 10 because he didn't finish top 10 in all the total metrics" when he missed 3 games. Of course he isn't going to finish top 10. And yes, missing games matters, but you still can't use season totals to define someones talent level when they missed 18% of games.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Both counting stats and rate stats matter. If Kyler didn't have a history of tailing off at the end of seasons or whatever. Kyler's had three chances to get over 4k yards and hasn't found a way to do it. He even got an extra game this year.
Availability is the most important ability, as they say.
There are plenty of rate stats where Kyler is outside the top 10, also, like TD%, INT%, Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt, EPA per play.
But that is exactly why missing games matters. It has a negative affect on a players overall production.
BulldogCard
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ESPN and Dan especially like to rip on the Cards, dismiss their success, and wait for the wheels to fall off. For the most part the Cards are making them look exactly like what they say. This season needs to be getting hot down the stretch. Week 6 at 3-3 ESPN will be spouting off all their wrath for the Cards like told you so. It'll be up to the Cards to change that to week 17 or 18 and the analysts say the Cards are the hottest team in football and have momentum instead of backing into playoffs like last season. Before that Rams game I wasn't getting good vibes like I knew Murray was going to freak out throwing picks and be running for his life. Healthy, improved receivers should help as will Hernandez only slightly at RG.
