Dansby wants Free Agency

[Buckybird]

Replaceable with what player? Who do the Cardinals have a realistic chance of signing who can bring a skillset similar to or better than Dansby's to the position?

If it is that easy to replace Dansby then you really have to fault the front office for paying him franchise tag2 money.

I don't believe Dansby's deal has any impact on Boldin's. If money for a Boldin extension were an issue the Cards wouldn't have structured Wilson's contract the way they did.

Duck your right. The thing that pisses me off is the Cards gave Karlos nearly $20 mil for 2 years that could have been used for a signing bonus 2 seasons ago. LB'ers who play the pass and run like Dansby don't grow on trees. And to top that off not find or draft a replacement. To think Ali Highsmith, Victor Hobson or Togafau are going to play anywhere near his level is insane. Draft a guy next year and hope he can star at near Pro Bowl level? Aint gonna happen. Dansby and AW have been the 2 best defensive players on this roster for several seasons. Those are the guys that are difficult to let go. In my mind since I've been a fan (the 70's), these are only Cards above average LB'ers: EJ juinior, Eric Hill, Ron McKinnon, Ken Harvey and Karlos. Thats it in nearly 40 years!!!

To me, in 2010 we will have a big hole in the middle.

 

[az1965]

http://www.azcardinals.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=3059

Urban says Dansby and Cardinals are too far apart.

Does this affect your grade for our GM this year? Dansby may be asking for too much...

What a shock!

He wanted to leave right from the beginning...

 

[PoolBoy]

I'd argue that AW is our best defensive player.

Linebackers are replaceable; look at how the Colts have churned through them the past few years.

id argue he's the fourth most important player on the defense.

AW, Dockett, DRC, Dansby

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Bart Scott - age 28 (7 years in league)
Total tackles: 433
Sacks: 16
Pass defended: 19
Interceptions: 3
Pro Bowl: 1

Contract with Jets: six-year, $48 million deal. $27 million over the first three years of the deal.

Karlos Dansby – age 27 (5 year in league)
Total tackles: 444
Sacks: 24.5
Pass defended: 21
Interceptions: 9
Pro Bowl: 0

2010

Dansby - gone
B-Train - gone
Okeafor - gone
Haggans - getting on in years
Hobson - backup at best
Highsmith - who knows
Brown - let's hope
Davis - Will he even be around
Pago - who the heck knows
Hayes - the one guy we can count on

Let's enjoy 2009, because the future is ????

 

[Duckjake]

Eh, I'd disagree with that. Not sure how many Colts games you've watched the past 6-7 years but that's pretty much my only option most Sundays. The Colts have had a pretty solid linebacking corps. They've let a lot of them go for big money elsewhere . . . Mike Peterson, Cato June, David Thornton, etc. They've done well developing solid replacements to plug in whenever guys leave. Honestly their biggest problem on defense was defensive line. They've been throwing undersized scrubs out in the interior for years. It's no coincedence that the year they won the SB was the year they had Booger McFarland at NT. He was able to dominate the line and let Freeney and Mathis rush the passer while the LB's played coverage.

Then you know that Gary Brackett has been with the Colts for 6 years and their starting MLB for 4. He's been with the Colts longer than Dansby has been with the Cardinals.

 

[Buckybird]

Dansby - gone
B-Train - gone
Okeafor - gone
Haggans - getting on in years
Hobson - backup at best
Highsmith - who knows
Brown - let's hope
Davis - Will he even be around
Pago - who the heck knows
Hayes - the one guy we can count on

Let's enjoy 2009, because the future is ????

Thx Canuck
Just like is said in an earlier post if Brown or Davis fail to live up to expectations this defense could have major issues because of the weak LB corp come 2010.

 

[Duckjake]

id argue he's the fourth most important player on the defense.

AW, Dockett, DRC, Dansby

One thing about Wilson and Dansby is that they are two of the most versatile defensive players I've ever seen. They give their DC numerous options with different schemes because of that versatility. That makes them very important to any defense.

Dansby has excelled as both an outside LB in a 4-3 and an ILB in a 3-4. He can play the run as well as the pass and when needed brought a solid pass rush from the outside in 2006. You are not going to find a player like that in too many places.

He has also shown he can play on the big stage. Go to www.nfl.com/stats and see whose picture is at the top of the page for defense. Karlos Dansby. Most tackles 2008 postseason.

Note: 4 of the six leaders on the page are Cardinals. How about that?

 

[Catfish]

I really can't put this on Graves. He and Dansby's former agent were BOTH negotiating in good faith, and BOTH thought that they were in the ball-park so far as reaching an agreement was concerned. Apparently Dansby ALONE knew that this was not going to happen, and fired his agent and replaced him. To me it appears that Dansby alone knew that he was not going to sign ANY agreement, and that all along he wanted to test the free-agent market.

That is Dansby's perrogative, but to me it seems like lying to the attorney who is defending you in court, and not making him aware of damaging information or evidence that jeopardizes your defense that you knew about all along. I can't blame Graves for not knowing what was in Dansby's heart. Graves was (rightfully) placing his faith in the negotiations offerred by Dansby's Agent --- and he apparently was negotiating with what he and Graves believed to be fair market value for Dansby.

 

[Buckybird]

I really can't put this on Graves. He and Dansby's former agent were BOTH negotiating in good faith, and BOTH thought that they were in the ball-park so far as reaching an agreement was concerned. Apparently Dansby ALONE knew that this was not going to happen, and fired his agent and replaced him. To me it appears that Dansby alone knew that he was not going to sign ANY agreement, and that all along he wanted to test the free-agent market.

That is Dansby's perrogative, but to me it seems like lying to the attorney who is defending you in court, and not making him aware of damaging information or evidence that jeopardizes your defense that you knew about all along. I can't blame Graves for not knowing what was in Dansby's heart. Graves was (rightfully) placing his faith in the negotiations offerred by Dansby's Agent --- and he apparently was negotiating with what he and Graves believed to be fair market value for Dansby.

So Catfish you dont think if Rod Graves would have offered Karlos fair market $$$ last year or 2 years ago he would have taken it. Come on!!! This is clearly RG's fault. Read some of my posts from last year or the year before. The longer the Cards waited the more $$$ it cost them at the bargaining table. people dont think he will get big $$$ because of the CBA. Watch, someone will pay him at least what Calvin Pace made.

The point is we could have signed Karlos for less $$$ if Graves was proactive.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

In years past it could be argued we had ZERO big names, Now we have several, many under long term contracts, we can't sign them all, especially the ones who grossly over value their worth.

I can hate on Graves with the best of em, but this is out of his hands imo.

 

[ThunderCard]

So Catfish you dont think if Rod Graves would have offered Karlos fair market $$$ last year or 2 years ago he would have taken it. Come on!!! This is clearly RG's fault. Read some of my posts from last year or the year before. The longer the Cards waited the more $$$ it cost them at the bargaining table. people dont think he will get big $$$ because of the CBA. Watch, someone will pay him at least what Calvin Pace made.

The point is we could have signed Karlos for less $$$ if Graves was proactive.

Here is a post from Oct 07

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/sign-karlos-dasby-to-a-extension-please-98975.html

He should have been extended ...

 

[joeshmo]

I think the Steelers had the 5th or 6th highest payroll in the NFL last year. The Patriots are also not a good example because nobody else in the league does what they do in any area. The ironic thing about using those two teams as an example is that they both have a reputation for outstanding linebacker play.

Over the last 5 years, the Steelers have only spent 10 more mill in total payroll, Patriots 8 more mill. So in terms of payroll Steelers spending has only been about 2 mill more per year on player salary, patriots even less then that. Also note that the Steelers may have been 6th but the Cards were not far behind ranked 8th.

 

[joeshmo]

That money could have been used on other TEAM players.

like Antonio Smith . i know it's a different position but none the less...

They decided Smith wasnt going to be re-signed during the 2008 draft when they drafted two DE's in the first 4 rounds, and when the fired Pendy to move more towards a traditional 3-4 rather then the 4-3 Pendy liked to called a 3-4 hybrid.

Could it have been used for other things sure, but it wasnt going to be Smith.

 

[joeshmo]

Bart Scott - age 28 (7 years in league)
Total tackles: 433
Sacks: 16
Pass defended: 19
Interceptions: 3
Pro Bowl: 1

Contract with Jets: six-year, $48 million deal. $27 million over the first three years of the deal.

Karlos Dansby – age 27 (5 year in league)
Total tackles: 444
Sacks: 24.5
Pass defended: 21
Interceptions: 9
Pro Bowl: 0

2010

Just to put some context on those stats to make them not as misleading, Yes Bart has been in the league for 7 years, but he was only a backup the first 3 years. He has only been a starter for 4 seasons compared to Dansby being a starter now for 5 seasons.

We already offered a contract that was compariable to Bart Scott, it was the one used as frame work before Dansby fired his agent. We already offered a more then fair contract to Dansby in the framework of and similar to and same amount of per year average and similar first 3 years, so your Bart Scott comaprison, both being similar production players is a good one. Dansby declined as we all know.

Dansby - gone
B-Train - gone
Okeafor - gone
Haggans - getting on in years
Hobson - backup at best
Highsmith - who knows
Brown - let's hope
Davis - Will he even be around
Pago - who the heck knows
Hayes - the one guy we can count on

Let's enjoy 2009, because the future is ????

Dansby isnt gone yet, Who cares if Berry leaves next year at his age, Okeafer isnt gone yet, Haggans at 33 still has a few good years left. There is a whole year before any of these guys contracts end, there is free agency, the draft, and we are already dooming and glooming the 2010 season? I dont get it. The future is also ????? for the rest Steelers and the Patriots to, its ????? for the whole league. From now until March 1st 2010 your list will be very different, it could be better, heck it could be worse, who knows. All I am saying is lets count the chickens when they actually hatch.

 

[joeshmo]

Watch, someone will pay him at least what Calvin Pace made.

That wont say much because thats what we were offering him this year and he still declined it.

Another note on the possible uncapped year and why the players will make far less then in years past. Urban brought it up. "but if the owners are in a battle with players about a new collective bargaining agreement, I don’t know if owners are going to want a player to be able to wave a gigantic new contract around as proof the owners still have plenty of cash to spend"

The players expecting to get paid big in an uncapped year are going to be in for a very rude awakening. A lot are going to end up taking 1 year deals, and a lot of teams are only going to be offering 1 year deals if it looks like a 2011 lockout is in the future because no teams wants to hand over a 20 mill signing bonus to a guy who wont even be playing in 2011.

 

[joeshmo]

The point is we could have signed Karlos for less $$$ if Graves was proactive.

Thats if you believe Karlos ever wanted to sign an extension at any point in time. So to say we could have signed him to an extension is complete conjecture. Karlos wants to shop his services to the rest of the league and see what he is worth, he wants to be wined and dined. Uncapped is only part of his deal, but most of it is Karlos likes the idea of free agency no matter what the CBA looks like.

 

[freebyrd]

maybe they drafted buster douglas to groom as dansbys replacement?
guess that didn't work out

 

[JeffGollin]

Does this affect your grade for our GM this year?...

I normally don't grade GM's.

It's one thing to grade players on the good things and bad things I saw them do on the field.

Or to grade a head coach on the basis of whether his team plays hard or the plays he dials up are successful and/or make sense strategically.

But most of what a GM does is behind closed doors. And even if we did know what was going on, how would we judge him? (i.e. during negotiations, does Rod typically jump up, holler "Eureka!" and say: "I've got it! How about an incentive clause based on how few times you say "you-know" in front of the TV cameras?")

All we really have to go on is whether the talent on the roster has improved over time or whether there have been any major moves which have significantly hurt us or helped us talent-wise. Using that criteria, it seems to me that Rod is doing a competent, workmanlike job of gradually making the team better and building from a sound foundation.

I can't fault KD for wanting to put himself in the best economic situation for him and his family. (I do hope, however, that aside from the financial, he still has love for his team, his teammates and Cardinal fans and will play his butt off during the coming season).

Very seldom in the NFL can any one team escape unscathed with regard to keeping all its players and remaining cap-responsible.

There may be a silver-lining though: More money is now available to get Q signed.

 

[ajcardfan]

I

There may be a silver-lining though: More money is now available to get Q signed.

Yes, but the cap space isn't there for Boldin, or anyone else, if Dansby isn't restructured.

 

[40yearfan]

Yes, but the cap space isn't there for Boldin, or anyone else, if Dansby isn't restructured.

I think Russ means next year when Dansby moves on.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

[

B]Just to put some context on those stats to make them not as misleading, Yes Bart has been in the league for 7 years, but he was only a backup the first 3 years. He has only been a starter for 4 seasons compared to Dansby being a starter now for 5 seasons. [/B]

I was trying to simplify the info, not distort. And, if anything, your point skews the stats even more in favour of KD.

Cheers

 

[Duckjake]

Over the last 5 years, the Steelers have only spent 10 more mill in total payroll, Patriots 8 more mill. So in terms of payroll Steelers spending has only been about 2 mill more per year on player salary, patriots even less then that. Also note that the Steelers may have been 6th but the Cards were not far behind ranked 8th.

The Steelers payroll for 2008 was $50 million higher than 2004, that's $10 million a year more not $10 million total. Their payroll for '08 is double what they spent in '03. Just like most of the rest of the league.

The Patriots cut their payroll significantly in 2008 but in 2007 they had the second highest payroll in the NFL behind Washington.

As for the Cards and Steelers that goes even further to my point. #6 and #8 in payroll and they played each other in the Super Bowl.

 

[overseascardfan]

The $40M/$20M guaranteed was a fair offer, if he wants to leave next year then let him. The 2010 draft has got some really great ILB prospects that will come cheaper and will be ready to plug in, some names to consider:

Brandon Spikes (we would have to be in the Top 10 to get him)
Rolando McClain
Ryan Reynolds
Sean Weatherspoon
Sean Lee
Sergio Kindle
Rico McCoy
Micah Johnson

Use that money on re-signing Q and maybe bring in an impact FA.

 

[Catfish]

Sorry Buckybird, but both Graves and Dansby's agent were negotiating at what they BOTH believed to be fair market value at the time, (and both felt they were close to an agreement). What more can you ask of a GM or and agent???

 

[Buckybird]

Sorry Buckybird, but both Graves and Dansby's agent were negotiating at what they BOTH believed to be fair market value at the time, (and both felt they were close to an agreement). What more can you ask of a GM or and agent???

be proactive get it done 2 seasons ago like it should have been, like Fitz should have been done, like Q and Dockett were.