D'Antoni fires back at Barkley

[Mulli]

Who is the half guy?

 

[F-Dog]

Who is the half guy?

If they ever get their full rotation healthy, James Jones.


Last night it was Pat Burke.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Who is the half guy?

Earl Boykins

 

[elindholm]

Over the season, we have 9 guys that average over 10 minutes a game.

Not if you figure in DNP-CDs. You have to divide the minutes they play by the number of games in which they were available. Specifically, Banks is averaging only about 8 1/2 minutes per game.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Big case of on this board over this topic. Suns fans, boy are you guys sensitive. Mike D. looks like a moron with those comments. Even if he disagrees with Chuck, like many of you who are drowing in , his response is completely offbase, without substance, and he sounds like someone who has no comeback and can't take criticism from the media. Barkley is far from alone in his assessment. If you guys think the Suns will win it all with a 7 man rotation you are kidding yourself. Nice Jalen Rose signing.

To rip Barkley for his performance over his career and particularly in 1992-1993 is beyond absurd and it shows what Mike D's character is made of. Last time I checked, Mikey has never taken a team to the NBA Finals. Shooting back at the media is a joke, and it is especially rediculous when the media memeber is a Suns legend who is speaking his mind. Next thing we know he'll be saying that the Mavericks are who we thought they were.

Side note, Suns from 1993 would kill this team, and they also had a bench.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Side note, Suns from 1993 would kill this team, and they also had a bench.

Now look who is crazy. Fully healthy, this team runs Barkley into the ground.

 

[Mulli]

Anyone have the quote from Jordan about Barkley?

 

[Chaplin]

Over the season, we have 9 guys that average over 10 minutes a game.

Not if you figure in DNP-CDs. You have to divide the minutes they play by the number of games in which they were available. Specifically, Banks is averaging only about 8 1/2 minutes per game.

Well, I DID say that it was simplistic. However, you have to do the same with Dallas as well. I would guess that Dallas still uses more players longer, however the difference is slight.

 

[green machine]

I was thinking about this last night. First, I think Barkley is a tool because he chose to rant about this over and over and over again after the Suns won by 25 and everyone on the roster played. That was the wrong time to say "the Suns need to use their bench."

As far as getting bench minutes, who does the team take them from? they have 7 guys getting roughly 35 minutes a game, right? Marion is tops at 38, does anyone think he plays too much? Raja is next at 37, that isn't horrible.

Then I was wondering who do we take the minutes from? Nash is the easiest argument, but two minutes a game won't make a big difference for him, in my opinion. Granted I'm not doctor, just my opinion.

The main reason the Suns don't play a lot of guys off the bench is because the ones that do get minutes off the bench play more then the usual reserves. Barbosa gets 32 minutes a game, James Jones 16, and KT 18. With Barbosa getting 32, if that was cut to 25 like most reserves would get you figure another 7 minutes for one of the other reserves to get. Would you want to cut Barbosa's minutes? So really D'Antoni's thinking of 7 starters seems pretty accurate to me.

 

[msdundee]

The main reason the Suns don't play a lot of guys off the bench is because the ones that do get minutes off the bench play more then the usual reserves.

Makes a lot of sense. The Suns' #6 and #7 can come in and contribute major minutes with more of an impact than most bench players -- with very few exceptions. LB could easily be a starter on most teams.

 

[myrondizzo]

the stupid thing about barkley's comments is that he said that they need to get nash's min down to 33-34 min. i dont think that 1-2 min is going to make a huge difference. and contrary to popular belief nash hasnt broken down in the playoffs if anything he has elevated his game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Big case of on this board over this topic. Suns fans, boy are you guys sensitive. Mike D. looks like a moron with those comments. Even if he disagrees with Chuck, like many of you who are drowing in , his response is completely offbase, without substance, and he sounds like someone who has no comeback and can't take criticism from the media. Barkley is far from alone in his assessment. If you guys think the Suns will win it all with a 7 man rotation you are kidding yourself. Nice Jalen Rose signing.

To rip Barkley for his performance over his career and particularly in 1992-1993 is beyond absurd and it shows what Mike D's character is made of. Last time I checked, Mikey has never taken a team to the NBA Finals. Shooting back at the media is a joke, and it is especially rediculous when the media memeber is a Suns legend who is speaking his mind. Next thing we know he'll be saying that the Mavericks are who we thought they were.

Side note, Suns from 1993 would kill this team, and they also had a bench.

as much as i hate to say it, i agree with this post (though not really the tone).

that said, i think barkley and the jet really came off as looking foolish in their comments that nash keeps breaking down in the playoffs. though there were stretches where nash looked tired last year in the playoffs he ended up rebounding nicely. i wish someone would have thrown nash's numbers at those two during those diatribes. though the short bench does hurt this team, i don't think nash has worn down the last two years. prior to '05 and '06? sure. but not the last two years.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

as much as i hate to say it, i agree with this post (though not really the tone).

that said, i think barkley and the jet really came off as looking foolish in their comments that nash keeps breaking down in the playoffs. though there were stretches where nash looked tired last year in the playoffs he ended up rebounding nicely. i wish someone would have thrown nash's numbers at those two during those diatribes. though the short bench does hurt this team, i don't think nash has worn down the last two years. prior to '05 and '06? sure. but not the last two years.

Apparently you missed the Clippers series last year where for a time he couldn't hit a 3 to save his life. It was pretty uncharacteristic for a guy hitting over 40% of them. Nash definitely appeared tired in both the Clippers and lakers series to me, and I was really hoping that we would be able to cut down his minutes.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Apparently you missed the Clippers series last year where for a time he couldn't hit a 3 to save his life. It was pretty uncharacteristic for a guy hitting over 40% of them. Nash definitely appeared tired in both the Clippers and lakers series to me, and I was really hoping that we would be able to cut down his minutes.

no, no, i said he looked tired, but that he rebounded nicely. by that i mean he didn't look his game with the la teams, but he seemed to bounce back pretty well for the dallas series. i think the la teams just got really physical with him and it took its toll. i think that'll happen against those teams whether or not he's well rested.

 

[Muggum]

Barkley is an idiot. The Suns' starters minutes are entirely reasonable. D'Antoni plays an eight man rotation. The eighth man tends to be by committee (Jones/Jones/Banks/Burke), but it's still an eight man rotation.

Loved D'Antoni's comments about Barkley. Totally true. The Suns would have won two NBA championships if Barkley hadn't been out at the bars until 3 in the morning the nights before playoff games vs Houston (a friend of mine was in Houston for one of the key Suns/Rockets games, and saw Barkley out at the bar the night before, drinking heavily and putting moves on women other than his wife at 2:30 AM. The next day he had a disastrous box score, missing tons of free throws, etc., and we went on to lose the series).

Barkley should have two rings (the two years Jordan failed to make the finals, one due to baseball, the other due to a lackluster return from semi-retirement). He choked/partied them away.

 

[SO91]

The minutes he played last year were more taxing than he was used to, and I do believe D'Antoni mentioned this at the end of the season. He was asked to carry a bigger offensive load, and work much harder to get his points, as well as the team's. It's my opinion that that is not the case this year. BTW, Barkley didn't even know how many minutes Nash plays before he made his comments. EJ challenged his opinion on the matter by asking, and then telling him, the number of minutes Nash plays

 

[ASUCHRIS]

i think the la teams just got really physical with him and it took its toll. i think that'll happen against those teams whether or not he's well rested.

I think we agree completely on this one. I do believe that fatigue has played some role in it...his shots were short, he didn't move his feet as well, just like anyone else, he can be less effective when fatigued/injured. The combination is even worse. This shoulder thing is really starting to bother me. It's pretty obvious, no Nash no championship. I don't think we can catch Dallas. We are behind, and our schedule is heavy western conference opponents, while they are heavy East. I would shut him down until he is completely healthy, even if it meant a month of rest. With a healthy Nash, I really believe we can win the championship. I would also think about cutting down on Marion's minutes. He seems like he is not himself lately, and not really playing like The Matrix. He seems to be dragging on the court. Either way, I hope these guys get some rest so we can try and find a decent 8th man. James Jones is so hot and cold...I'd like to see some others guys get a shot.

 

[hsandhu]

no, no, i said he looked tired, but that he rebounded nicely. by that i mean he didn't look his game with the la teams, but he seemed to bounce back pretty well for the dallas series. i think the la teams just got really physical with him and it took its toll. i think that'll happen against those teams whether or not he's well rested.

Yeah, but the reason he got tired last year, is because without Amare, on the offensive end he had to do EVERYTHING for the entire regular season. The difference in minutes was not that large between last year and '05/this year, but the difference in the toll those minutes took was huge.

Nash and Mike stated this, and even if they didn't you just had to watch the regular season games to see he was killing himself doing everything. I mean we won 54 games w/o amare, and our second best player unable to create his own shot, that tells you how hard he worked.

Again I agree to an extent with barkley, but barkley/anthony etc.. always piss me off when they say nash breaks down during the postseason. Outside of last year, where we stated there were extenuating circumstances, there was '01-'02 second round series, where bibby really put it on him, and for some reason that sticks in people's mind.
Not '04-'05 where he was masterful, and parts of last year where even beaten down he was pretty darn good.

Hey guess what, dont you think that since he's better as a player than in '02, isnt it possible his conditioning is better? Add to that no player takes better care of themselves, and it is a false argument, and quite honestly a lazy argument, to say "Steve Nash always breaks down".

 

[Mainstreet]

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0222sunsnb0222.html
Free throws
After former Suns star and current TNT analyst Charles Barkley criticized D'Antoni's short rotation and challenged him to use his reserves more, D'Antoni said he wasn't sure he should take basketball advice from someone who "choked" away championships and had his own playoff conditioning questioned.

As a side note, who says coach D'Antoni doesn't know defense?

 

[TheFallen49]

I don't think he knows what a bench is for... they are like props to him to make the bench look full. Maybe somebody should tell him those are guys he could send on the court as well.

Barkley is usually an idiot, but he's smart enough to know depth is important in the playoffs. If the Suns want to contend your coach should learn how to take constructive criticism a little better instead of going on the defensive like a scared insecure individual. I think a HOF knows what he's talking about, it's not like D'Antoni is a great coach anyway.

 

[azirish]

I don't think cutting Nash's minutes would effect the real problem in the playoffs - opponents go out of their way to beat up on Nash. Is there any other player in the NBA that gets run into picks more often that Nash. Sometimes I think teams deliberately accept charging fouls just so they can run him down and he certainly gets his share of hard fouls. Fewer minutes in the regular season won't change that.

 

[elindholm]

Barkley is usually an idiot, but he's smart enough to know depth is important in the playoffs.

This just isn't true. Championship teams almost always have eight-men rotations, or occasionally nine. Depth matters only if someone gets injured. Fully healthy, the Suns have Barbosa, Thomas, and probably James Jones off the bench. That's all they need. If someone gets hurt it's another story, but there just aren't that many players that can run and shoot with the proficiency that D'Antoni's "system" requires.

 

[TheHopToad]

I don't buy the issue with the minutes. The Suns' don't have a player in the top 10 in MPG. Nobody seems to have an issue with AI, LBJ, Hibachi, and Kobe all averaging 40+ MPG. Are they hurting their teams' playoff chances by playing too much?

Fact is, the Suns' starters are getting starters minutes. They get paid millions of dollars to keep themselves in top physical condition. One or two minutes per game isn't going make them "well rested" for the playoffs. I believe they're better off wrapping up a top playoff spot early and being able to rest all the players during the last few regular season games right before the playoff start.

Besides, why would you want to take minutes away from your best four players and give those minutes to your worst four players? The guys at the end of the bench have proven that they haven't quite jelled with the system. Rose and Jumaine are too slow to run at the pace required, Banks is off in his own world and Burke is all heart and effort, but limited skills. Marks and Pike are...well...I don't need to explain that one.

The way to save minutes is to blow teams out through three quarters and rest the guys in the fourth, but the bench has proven time and again they can't even keep those leads consistently.

Bottom line: Play the talent that will win you the games and tell the MVP to get the hell out of the way next time guys like Elton Brand come barreling down the lane. Concede the bucket to save the wear and tear on your body--that would help far more than two extra minutes on the bench.

 

[green machine]

I'd be curious as to what the average amount of minutes teams give to their bench is. Like, not how many guys play, but how many minutes are given to the reserves. Given that the Suns play 3 reserves but play them quite a bit, I would almost guess that the Suns bench minutes average is pretty close with the norm.

 

[elindholm]

I think the difference is that the Suns don't have semi-competent 9th or 10th men who can be used in case of injury. When someone goes down, the usual core just plays more. Recently, Banks and even Burke bucked that trend a bit, which was good, but it's still what separates the Suns from most other good teams. As we've seen many times this season, the Suns' bottom five is among the worst in the league, and that shows up when people in the rotation get hurt.