Day 1 Senior Bowl practice

ARodg

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the analysis of mayock are different from yours..probably you should take his place in nfl network

Has Maycock said Miller has a vast array of pass rushing moves? Has he said he does well against the run? I can't deny that Miller has blazing speed off the snap, and apparently he's doing a good job dropping into coverage, but I question if Miller will be able to rush the passer like he has in college.

If Miller gets stronger and develops some pass rushing moves, he can be a dominant player. The questions that I haave is if he ever does either of those things.
 

joeshmo

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Odd then that Stoops would be quoted as saying Beal's ability to drop back into coverage was instrumental in the Sooners' win over Oklahoma State.

It was that quote and Beal's number of pdf's last season and that JB had played a lot standing up, that got me interested in him in the first place.

There is a difference in dropping back out of a zone blitz and dropping out as a LB in a two point stance. BJ Raji had an INT and TD because of the zone blitz, doesnt mean he is good at dropping back into coverage, he was just in a spot the QB wasnt expecting someone underneath to be.
 

juza76

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Has Maycock said Miller has a vast array of pass rushing moves? Has he said he does well against the run? I can't deny that Miller has blazing speed off the snap, and apparently he's doing a good job dropping into coverage, but I question if Miller will be able to rush the passer like he has in college.

If Miller gets stronger and develops some pass rushing moves, he can be a dominant player. The questions that I haave is if he ever does either of those things.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-senio...nior-Bowl-Day-3-standouts?module=HP_spotlight
around 2.10
 
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ARodg

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Cbus cardsfan

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He said he's done well, but I still have questions. People can evaluate two players differently. If everyone saw players the same way there'd be no reason to have different scouts.

Maycock said he's done well, but I have a problem ignoring some convincing film, on one person's word, and the biggest question still remains about his lack of rushing moves.
you're not going to find too many, if any, college players that have a vast array of pass rush moves that will work at the NFL level. They need to be developed. However, having the speed to blow by the OT leads to setting up the many other moves that will be developed.
 

ARodg

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you're not going to find too many, if any, college players that have a vast array of pass rush moves that will work at the NFL level. They need to be developed. However, having the speed to blow by the OT leads to setting up the many other moves that will be developed.

I disagree, normally their moves aren't very developed, but they're still somewhat effective. Even when they're not developed you can judge a players ability somewhat by how well they use their hands. Von Miller hardly uses his hands. I've yet to see in film, somebody get on Miller, and Miller get away from him.
 

Duckjake

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There is a difference in dropping back out of a zone blitz and dropping out as a LB in a two point stance. BJ Raji had an INT and TD because of the zone blitz, doesnt mean he is good at dropping back into coverage, he was just in a spot the QB wasnt expecting someone underneath to be.

Obviously you don't know much about Beal because he was playing standing up quite a bit during the Big XII season and almost all of the OSU game.
 

Chopper0080

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I really like Beal as a linebacker in the 3-4. I think that he may take a bit to adjust to the speed of the NFL while standing up, but I think he brings a real physical presence on the edge in a 3-4. He probably won't ever be great in man coverage, but should be able to handle zone coverages just fine.
 

joeshmo

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Maycock said he's done well, but I have a problem ignoring some convincing film, on one person's word, and the biggest question still remains about his lack of rushing moves.

Mayock watches more film then any other draft pundit out there. He watches more then just 10 snaps on a youtube clip. If there was convincing film he wouldn't just ignore it.
 

joeshmo

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I really like Beal as a linebacker in the 3-4. I think that he may take a bit to adjust to the speed of the NFL while standing up, but I think he brings a real physical presence on the edge in a 3-4. He probably won't ever be great in man coverage, but should be able to handle zone coverages just fine.

He is a 6-2, 270 pounder who looked slow and sloppy in his weigh in and practices. Sentiment among scouts that he has been a tad overrated due to his high motor play for a major program. The guy that showed up to the Senior Bowl, showed up as a guy looking like and shooting for a 4-3 DE spot.
 

joeshmo

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Obviously you don't know much about Beal because he was playing standing up quite a bit during the Big XII season and almost all of the OSU game.

He played standing up as a cover over the OT either straight up or no his shoulder.. He was still lined up as a DE, two point stance or three point stance doesn't matter he was playing the roll of a DE and still playing a zone blitz scheme. I saw the kid play first hand when I went to the Fiesta Bowl and that is how he was used then as well. UConn ran right at the kid all night long and he was getting destroyed. Run plays to Beals side got 5.5 YPC, run plays opposite of Beal under 2. They were running their roll outs to his side of the field as well.
 

bg7brd

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He played standing up as a cover over the OT either straight up or no his shoulder.. He was still lined up as a DE, two point stance or three point stance doesn't matter he was playing the roll of a DE and still playing a zone blitz scheme. I saw the kid play first hand when I went to the Fiesta Bowl and that is how he was used then as well. UConn ran right at the kid all night long and he was getting destroyed. Run plays to Beals side got 5.5 YPC, run plays opposite of Beal under 2. They were running their roll outs to his side of the field as well.

Good stuff Joe. What are your thoughts on Jaabal Sheard OLD/DE?
 

Duckjake

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He played standing up as a cover over the OT either straight up or no his shoulder.. He was still lined up as a DE, two point stance or three point stance doesn't matter he was playing the roll of a DE and still playing a zone blitz scheme. I saw the kid play first hand when I went to the Fiesta Bowl and that is how he was used then as well. UConn ran right at the kid all night long and he was getting destroyed. Run plays to Beals side got 5.5 YPC, run plays opposite of Beal under 2. They were running their roll outs to his side of the field as well.

UConn's offense didn't even score a TD. If they were running 5.5 ypc at Beal's side and he was so awful why didn't they run more of their 37 run plays over there? Heck if they'd run them all over there they'd have had 200 yards rushing. I guess those UConn coaches just aren't very smart.

You'll need to find another game besides that meaningless exhibition if you want to knock Beal.
 
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JeffGollin

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Based on what I've seen and read -

- None of the QB's at the Senior Bowl warrant a #5 consideration.

- From the standpoint of "team system-fit", I'm intrigued by Miller and his pass rushing talent. If the draft were held today - if he was there at #5, I'd be tempted to grab him.

- In some ways, our pick at #37 is more crucial than than the one at #5 (because the certainty of our getting good value at #5 is more likely whereas having the right guy fall into our laps at #37 is iffier.

- We need a major overhaul of our O-line and, although we can sort of tread water and continue to "get by" with Levi, Faneca, Sendlein, Deuce and Brandon - we're going to have to bite the bullet sooner or later and start stockpiling the unit with quality talent. I doubt we'd choose one of the three top OT's (Solder, Castonzo or Carimi) over Von Miller at #5, but there are a bunch of good interior linemen who figure to be around at #37 - most notably Watkins and Moffit (both street-fighters & road-graders who can also anchor). Plus a couple of underclassmen (Pouncey and Wisniewski).

- If we can pull it off, this might be the right year to trade down. It depends on how the Cardinal board profiles - i.e. If we've determined that there is a blue-chipper still available at #5 who's far and away better than the next 15-20 rated guys we can't pass him up. But if our board profiles a pretty flat "plateau" of prospects from, say #3 all the way into the 2nd, 3rd or even the 4th round - we have more holes in our roster than draft picks available to fill them and maybe we should stockpile our board with extra picks by trading down (& more than once).

- One word of caution - Trading down (past a Suggs, Trufaunt and Kevin Williams) in order to settle for a McDougal (whom we were beaten to the punch anyway) B Johnson and Pace - this time, we should run like hell away from that kind of deal.

Finally (& it was alluded to by Leslie Frazier about the Vikings draft strategy), right now, Wiz and his assistants are, no doubt, reviewing (a) the offensive and defensive systems he wants to run and (b) the "ideal" player - in terms of size, speed and skill-set - for every starting and backup position within those systems. (Do we want a 6-5 QB with a cannon to operate a vertical offense? Or do we want a 6-0 brainy and surgical Drew Brees type? Do we want a short one-trick pony pass-rush freak at ROLB? Or do we want a 6-5 Lawrence Taylor type?). And then (c) the scouts and staff go about rating players according to how well they fit the team's position ideals. And (d) they wind up ranking all these players regardless of position BPA-style.

QB is the most vexing. We've got Skelton (whom the coaches could feel is definitely our QBOF) but can he get the job done as a starter in his 2nd year? We can look to a veteran to get the job done until Skelton is ready (but who's out there? McNabb? Palmer? (heh heh) Jeff George)? We could draft our franchise QB (if one were available) at #5. Right now, the only two guys who might fit the profile would be Gabbert (we'll have to see more of him) and Newton (high roof/different set of skills/risky floor). Or we could go the Philly "Kevin Kolb" route and draft someone like Dalton in the second or third round; but he'd probably start out as backup to Skelton either as a #2 or #3. There are a gazillion 2nd or 3rd-echelon prospects (6 of them in the Senior Bowl) who figure to be available in rounds 2 - 4 if we want to go in that direction. I'm guessing that, until the QB situation is resolved, our speculation about the draft (all positions considered) will be all over the lot.
 
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WildBB

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- If we can pull it off, this might be the right year to trade down. It depends on how the Cardinal board profiles - i.e. If we've determined that there is a blue-chipper still available at #5 who's far and away better than the next 15-20 rated guys we can't pass him up. But if our board profiles a pretty flat "plateau" of prospects from, say #3 all the way into the 2nd, 3rd or even the 4th round - we have more holes in our roster than draft picks available to fill them and maybe we should stockpile our board with extra picks by trading down (& more than once).[COLOR]


I think they;re seriously thinking (prefering) a good trade down senario this year. There are probably 7-8 top tier players, and the ones who would fall to us would be Akumara or Quinn as far as need area's. Your right, none of the QB's looks likely to legitimately crack past the top 15 picks. So concidering that we NEED to address/upgrade multiple area's w/ no FA probable, it's a must that we pull this off, and I think the FO has sent out some feelers that we want to move down.

Area's of concern are CB, OLB, ILB, QB, OT, OG/C, and TE. Preferably you address ALL those issues this draft by the top of the 5th round. After that it's projects down the road. Obviously the only way to do that is trade out of the #5.
 

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