DBacks Trade Touki Toussaint & Bronson Arroyo to the Braves

[BC867]

...most scouting outlets have already noted that they surely could've gotten a lot more back than Gosselin/salary relief.

There is no direct reference in the CBS article to the timing of the imminent return of Arroyo from the DL.

Heading off the competition of Arroyo vs. one of the young guys currently in the rotation was a smart baseball move.

The article also said, "The outfield is so crowded that they've been using Yasmany Tomas (24) at third base as well."

That is BS. Tomas was brought up as a 3B, then moved to RF when Trumbo was traded, which is why he is traded.

There is more to a trade than meets the eye. The CBS article did not consider that. The D-backs Front Office evidently did.

 

[Lefty]

There is no direct reference in the CBS article to the timing of the imminent return of Arroyo from the DL.

Heading off the competition of Arroyo vs. one of the young guys currently in the rotation was a smart baseball move.

The article also said, "The outfield is so crowded that they've been using Yasmany Tomas (24) at third base as well."

That is BS. Tomas was brought up as a 3B, then moved to RF when Trumbo was traded, which is why he is traded.

There is more to a trade than meets the eye. The CBS article did not consider that. The D-backs Front Office evidently did.

The Diamondbacks got robbed and right now I don't think Stewart and company are any better then Towers. I hope they can make me change my mind but right now they are in the same company as Kevin Towers.

Here is another article where some baseball writers give their thoughts on the trade.

http://www.talkingchop.com/2015/6/21/8819785/braves-trade-diamondbacks-touki-touissant-reaction

 

[BC867]

Here is another article where some baseball writers give their thoughts on the trade.

'Still no reference to the timing of moving Bronson Arroyo before his coming off the DL and either being demoted to the bullpen or bumping a younger pitcher from the rotation.

For the sake of team chemistry, the D-backs had to throw in a pitching prospect of which we've had many. It is a factor that should not be overlooked. But still, it is being overlooked in articles and posts to this board.

 

[GatorAZ]

I am sorry, but I just can't come to that conclusion. The D-backs are building a good, young starting pitching staff. Perhaps that is why they traded off Toussaint. An overabundance at this time.

And they are developing a young starting lineup as well. As soon as they get rid of Aaron Hill and Addison Reed, and perhaps add another power bat, they will only get better.

I feel a lot better about the D-back future, both short- and long-term, now than I did one year ago. I cringe when I see D-backs fans use words such as "a joke", "moron", "garbage".

I don't even use those words on the ASFN Suns board, and they are the team who keeps rolling along with no hope.

C'mon, D-backs fans! There is reason for hope!

As long as Kendrick is calling the shots it's hard to hope. Not allowing myself to get burned again after 07' and 11'.

 

[Lefty]

'Still no reference to the timing of moving Bronson Arroyo before his coming off the DL and either being demoted to the bullpen or bumping a younger pitcher from the rotation.

For the sake of team chemistry, the D-backs had to throw in a pitching prospect of which we've had many. It is a factor that should not be overlooked. But still, it is being overlooked in articles and posts to this board.

They did not have to do anything right now. They could of made a trade with another team with a better offer or just eat Bronson's contract. Makes no sense to get rid of your #1 pick from a year ago. They just got a tv deal worth 1 billion plus.

First Parker, then Bauer, now Touki. This organization is so incompetent when it comes to trades and free agent signings. Maybe it's time to get rid of Derrick Hal.

 

[Phrazbit]

This being about avoiding Arroyo pushing someone out of the rotation... thats nonsense. Nothing was going to force them to put him on the 25 man roster. They could DFA him, they could just shut him down and have him sit out there year.

It was a pure salary dump. They wanted to clear Arroyo's disgusting contract... but this was a disgusting way to do it.

I hate this idea that Touki was expendable because we have so many young arms, that same dumb logic is what led us to shipping off several of our top pitching prospects, then signing BRONSON ARROYO when it turned out we were short on pitching.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

 

[Phrazbit]

There is no direct reference in the CBS article to the timing of the imminent return of Arroyo from the DL.

Heading off the competition of Arroyo vs. one of the young guys currently in the rotation was a smart baseball move.

The article also said, "The outfield is so crowded that they've been using Yasmany Tomas (24) at third base as well."

That is BS. Tomas was brought up as a 3B, then moved to RF when Trumbo was traded, which is why he is traded.

There is more to a trade than meets the eye. The CBS article did not consider that. The D-backs Front Office evidently did.

Tomas was playing OF in the minors, he came up to play 3rd only because Lamb got hurt.

 

[unseenaz]

I am sorry, but I just can't come to that conclusion. The D-backs are building a good, young starting pitching staff. Perhaps that is why they traded off Toussaint. An overabundance at this time.

And they are developing a young starting lineup as well. As soon as they get rid of Aaron Hill and Addison Reed, and perhaps add another power bat, they will only get better.

I feel a lot better about the D-back future, both short- and long-term, now than I did one year ago. I cringe when I see D-backs fans use words such as "a joke", "moron", "garbage".

I don't even use those words on the ASFN Suns board, and they are the team who keeps rolling along with no hope.

C'mon, D-backs fans! There is reason for hope!

sooo... You like this trade or the logic behind it ?

This type of trade gives me insight to the front office that gives me a lot of things, hope isn't one of them.

The team this year IS exciting, but this is still mostly KTs roster

 

[Dback Jon]

Disappointed by this trade.


The only thing that would make it ok is if the money saved was used to get an impact arm or bat.

 

[Iceman]

Disappointed by this trade.


The only thing that would make it ok is if the money saved was used to get an impact arm or bat.

For sure. Was shocked to see this happen just like the rest of you. It's a real head scratcher. There HAS to be more to it and we are going to see more roster players out before All Star break. Reed is owed 5 mil, but he needs to be sent down to the minors or sent out. Anyone can do just as worse as him from the minors, but maybe there will be a pleasant surprise with an farm guy taking his spot.

 

[TJ]

I am sorry, but I just can't come to that conclusion. The D-backs are building a good, young starting pitching staff. Perhaps that is why they traded off Toussaint. An overabundance at this time.



And they are developing a young starting lineup as well. As soon as they get rid of Aaron Hill and Addison Reed, and perhaps add another power bat, they will only get better.



I feel a lot better about the D-back future, both short- and long-term, now than I did one year ago. I cringe when I see D-backs fans use words such as "a joke", "moron", "garbage".



I don't even use those words on the ASFN Suns board, and they are the team who keeps rolling along with no hope.



C'mon, D-backs fans! There is reason for hope!

Don't fall for the okie-doke.

Saying you're building a team with talent by trading away arguably the best arm in the farm system is like me saying I want a sexier wife, so I'm going to divorce Kate Upton.

Also, I'm not seeing an over abundance in pitching talent. Chase Anderson is awesome. After that, you have a shell-shocked Bradley and Corbin coming back from Tommy John. The rest is simply hopes and dreams. Touki could've very well been an anchor in the rotation for years.

When the team trades a significant amounts of young pitching talent, the words, "sunshine and "glee" don't come to mind. The words I want to use to describe this rash of porous personnel moves would get filtered by this website.

 

[PDXChris]

Don't fall for the okie-doke.

Saying you're building a team with talent by trading away arguably the best arm in the farm system is like me saying I want a sexier wife, so I'm going to divorce Kate Upton.

Also, I'm not seeing an over abundance in pitching talent. Chase Anderson is awesome. After that, you have a shell-shocked Bradley and Corbin coming back from Tommy John. The rest is simply hopes and dreams. Touki could've very well been an anchor in the rotation for years.

When the team trades a significant amounts of young pitching talent, the words, "sunshine and "glee" don't come to mind. The words I want to use to describe this rash of porous personnel moves would get filtered by this website.

Yoan Lopez is coming along super fast, Robbie Ray is showing he just might belong, Blair is pretty close too. Shipley needs a bit more work and we have two #5's in Rubby De La Rosa and Hellickson.

With that being said, terrible trade and I would love to know the real reason behind it.

 

[Azlen]

Don't fall for the okie-doke.

Saying you're building a team with talent by trading away arguably the best arm in the farm system is like me saying I want a sexier wife, so I'm going to divorce Kate Upton.

I think comparing Toussaint to Kate Upton is a bit of a stretch at this point. Kate is already a major leaguer and nobody knows how Touki is going to turn out.
Still a dumb trade though. The only possible explanation is a demand from ownership to dump Arroyo's contract regardless of the cost in talent.

 

[TJ]

I think comparing Toussaint to Kate Upton is a bit of a stretch at this point. Kate is already a major leaguer and nobody knows how Touki is going to turn out.

Still a dumb trade though. The only possible explanation is a demand from ownership to dump Arroyo's contract regardless of the cost in talent.

Not sure you read my response right.

Young:Touki :: Hot:Upton.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This is one of the three worst trades in the history of Arizona Sports. Selling your #1 pick for no benefit other than cash in the owners pocket.

DBacks are now 29th in Payroll.

 

[unseenaz]

This is one of the three worst trades in the history of Arizona Sports. Selling your #1 pick for no benefit other than cash in the owners pocket.

DBacks are now 29th in Payroll.

seriously?
wtf!

does anyone feel this move was to spite the fans?? I seriously don't understand! 10 mil is not that much to be saving

 

[Phrazbit]

This is one of the three worst trades in the history of Arizona Sports. Selling your #1 pick for no benefit other than cash in the owners pocket.

DBacks are now 29th in Payroll.

Not trying to defend the trade, which was horrible. But does that payroll figure account for us paying most of Cahill's salary and Cody Ross' buyout?

 

[sundevil04]

"arguably the best arm in the farm system"

Touki could've very well been an anchor in the rotation for years.

Lol, are you serious? He turned 19 years old last week and has a 5.75 ERA in A ball. He has good (not great) stuff, no better than Rubby De La Rosa, who is a #5 at best. In the 2019 season, he'll be 22 years old on opening day. IF (IIIIIF) he makes it to the bigs, and for the record about 16% if high school players drafted in the first round do, he's not the "anchor the rotation" type of guy. He's a #4 or #5. You're making the guy out to be STephen Stausburg, if he were, he would have been drafted #1...or 2....or 3...or 4....or anything before #16.

Befor this trade was made if you were to ask the same naysayers to describe the health of the pitching prospects in our farm system I GUARANTEE you NONE of them would have said, we'll overall, we're OK, but THANK GOD we have Touki Toussaint, he's going to anchor our rotation for years to come. But now that he's been traded it's doomsday, we just traded Tom Seaver!

 

[unseenaz]

Lol, are you serious? He turned 19 years old last week and has a 5.75 ERA in A ball. He has good (not great) stuff, no better than Rubby De La Rosa, who is a #5 at best. In the 2019 season, he'll be 22 years old on opening day. IF (IIIIIF) he makes it to the bigs, and for the record about 16% if high school players drafted in the first round do, he's not the "anchor the rotation" type of guy. He's a #4 or #5. You're making the guy out to be STephen Stausburg, if he were, he would have been drafted #1...or 2....or 3...or 4....or anything before #16.

Befor this trade was made if you were to ask the same naysayers to describe the health of the pitching prospects in our farm system I GUARANTEE you NONE of them would have said, we'll overall, we're OK, but THANK GOD we have Touki Toussaint, he's going to anchor our rotation for years to come. But now that he's been traded it's doomsday, we just traded Tom Seaver!

There's a bunch of fallacies here, because yes many of us were keeping up with touki and were very aware of his existence and what he meant for the future of this team.TLR said something on the radio today which was utterly ridiculous. "I believe touki will have a good major league career, but he won't be major league ready by the time we are ready to compete" umm.. And by the time he is ready you won't be in the front office anymore? I don't care when his window is, I'm a fan for the long haul, and my job doesn't depend on the DBacks success in the next 3-4 years Tony...

Here's what i posted a couple weeks back regarding toukis struggles so far in the minors;

Toussaint is currently in A ball after spending last year in rookie ball. He isn't playing particularly well, but that's not cause for concern. Often these kids are changing their mechanics or learning new pitches ect, being groomed basically for a major league career

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Not trying to defend the trade, which was horrible. But does that payroll figure account for us paying most of Cahill's salary and Cody Ross' buyout?

It does. This link doesn't have Arroyo off yet, which is why they were at 82 million.

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/arizona-diamondbacks/payroll/

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Befor this trade was made if you were to ask the same naysayers to describe the health of the pitching prospects in our farm system I GUARANTEE you NONE of them would have said, we'll overall, we're OK, but THANK GOD we have Touki Toussaint, he's going to anchor our rotation for years to come. But now that he's been traded it's doomsday, we just traded Tom Seaver!

Before this trade, he was ranked the #5 prospect in the DBacks organization. They got zero for their #5 prospect.

That is the issue. It isn't what the final product will be because we can't predict that.

It is taking a very real asset and basically burning it to take you from 27th in payroll to 29th.

 

[don7031]

Statistically there is a 10% chance of Toussaint ever pitching on the major league level.

La Russa / Stewart have managed to free the D'backs of nine of the top ten salaries from the 2014 Opening Day roster whilst simultaneously making the team better. They've managed to move the rebuilding timeline up a couple years.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Before this trade, he was ranked the #5 prospect in the DBacks organization. They got zero for their #5 prospect.

That is the issue. It isn't what the final product will be because we can't predict that.

It is taking a very real asset and basically burning it to take you from 27th in payroll to 29th.

Yes... we got zero... now. Let's give LaRussa & Co the benefit of some time to see what they do with that $10 million. He sure seemed pretty certain that this move will allow them the chance to make another move(s) for another position player or Pitcher.
Personally, I like where the team is heading with respect to pitching... But IMHO, we are in desperate need of a more steady/consistent and true cleanup bat. I don't think Tomas is that guy, though he can suffice for now. And I definitely don't believe Peralta is that guy and in fact, I am not even sure Peralta should be an everyday starter... Which means along with our needs for more offense at SS and 2B, we need a true starter in left field.

I don't like this trade - today. But I'm willing to be patient and see what the fellas do from here...

 

[GatorAZ]

Diamondbacks have traded seven first round picks since 2006. Most in baseball over that time span. Unfortunately owners can't be held accountable.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Yes... we got zero... now. Let's give LaRussa & Co the benefit of some time to see what they do with that $10 million. He sure seemed pretty certain that this move will allow them the chance to make another move(s) for another position player or Pitcher.
Personally, I like where the team is heading with respect to pitching... But IMHO, we are in desperate need of a more steady/consistent and true cleanup bat. I don't think Tomas is that guy, though he can suffice for now. And I definitely don't believe Peralta is that guy and in fact, I am not even sure Peralta should be an everyday starter... Which means along with our needs for more offense at SS and 2B, we need a true starter in left field.

I don't like this trade - today. But I'm willing to be patient and see what the fellas do from here...

This is the stuff though that makes your head explode when you think of it. They already paid Touki's signing bonus and would have him cost controlled for years should he make it to the major league level.

So basically the best case scenario is to burn multiple prospects to be able to afford making a trade for a player now? That hasn't worked out so well recently.

Even IF they end up making a move, history says they will just do the same biting your nose off thing 2 to 3 years later.

My guess...nothing happens. Right around .500. Attendance is up. New TV money kicking in...

They will be content to "build their core"