DCU: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
- Thread starter Brian in Mesa
- Start date
FArting
Lopes Up!
Dave Pasch is in the movie.
FWIW, 31% "Rotten" on R/T.
**Spoiler free review**
Just got back from seeing this. It was better than the reviews IMO and decent. Was it great? OK no. The biggest problem with the movie? They tried to throw too many story lines within the same movie. If you are familiar with the comics you know what I mean. They really tried to combine multiple comic book arcs into this single movie and then be a JL setup movie on top of that. So I get where some critics were saying it was a mess.
The dream sequences were garbage. Nothing but fanboy fodder. They were not only unnecessary but made the movie feel choppy and added ZERO to the film. The major dream sequence felt like someone had a nerdgasm and just through it in there....just because. Removing that one sequence alone would have made the film better and shorter. Seriously...you would have missed NOTHING had it not been there at all.
Also, one cameo in the film PMO. Why? Because someone who plays the part elsewhere already nailed it. I will leave it at that but its just annoys me to no end that DC doesn't have one continuity between the films and TV.
I agree that the geographical location of Metropolis and Gotham was a shocker to say the least. Seemed like convenient lazy writing to me.
Here is what I liked. It might be blasphemy.....but Ben Affleck is the best Batman to date. Yes...you heard me. He is the best depiction of the combination of Bruce Wayne and the Dark Knight. In fact, had you put Ben in Nolan's films? He does a better job and I am a Bale fan. They also not only handled the voice issue better but had a plausible explanation for it. Kudos. All those Ben Aflleck haters? They can kiss his backside.....he nailed it.
Lex. Well I didn't hate Jesse Eisenberg as much as I convinced myself I would. He wasn't great but he wasn't bad either. Just different kind of Lex.
Gal Gadot nailed Wonder Woman. She was convincing to me as both Dianna Prince and Wonder Woman. The problem? She wasn't in the movie nearly enough. I almost wish they had kept her out and just let her be introduced in her own movie. She pretty much stole the major sequence she was in though.
The action sequences I have to say were much better than Superman. Although I agree with the above some of the CGI was suspect. Not to mention that Snyder filmed many of the cool Batman sequences way to close to the camera (an action sequence cardinal sin).
All in all, it was decent IMO and worth the price of admission. It was better than Fantastic 4, better than the Green Lantern, better than Iron Man 2, better than either of the last 2 Spiderman movies. However, that's probably as high as it goes on my list. The cast definitely wasn't the weak leak. Snyder's directing and writing was.
They should seriously fire Snyder because this could have been great with just a few tweaks.
Just got back from seeing this. It was better than the reviews IMO and decent. Was it great? OK no. The biggest problem with the movie? They tried to throw too many story lines within the same movie. If you are familiar with the comics you know what I mean. They really tried to combine multiple comic book arcs into this single movie and then be a JL setup movie on top of that. So I get where some critics were saying it was a mess.
The dream sequences were garbage. Nothing but fanboy fodder. They were not only unnecessary but made the movie feel choppy and added ZERO to the film. The major dream sequence felt like someone had a nerdgasm and just through it in there....just because. Removing that one sequence alone would have made the film better and shorter. Seriously...you would have missed NOTHING had it not been there at all.
Also, one cameo in the film PMO. Why? Because someone who plays the part elsewhere already nailed it. I will leave it at that but its just annoys me to no end that DC doesn't have one continuity between the films and TV.
I agree that the geographical location of Metropolis and Gotham was a shocker to say the least. Seemed like convenient lazy writing to me.
Here is what I liked. It might be blasphemy.....but Ben Affleck is the best Batman to date. Yes...you heard me. He is the best depiction of the combination of Bruce Wayne and the Dark Knight. In fact, had you put Ben in Nolan's films? He does a better job and I am a Bale fan. They also not only handled the voice issue better but had a plausible explanation for it. Kudos. All those Ben Aflleck haters? They can kiss his backside.....he nailed it.
Lex. Well I didn't hate Jesse Eisenberg as much as I convinced myself I would. He wasn't great but he wasn't bad either. Just different kind of Lex.
Gal Gadot nailed Wonder Woman. She was convincing to me as both Dianna Prince and Wonder Woman. The problem? She wasn't in the movie nearly enough. I almost wish they had kept her out and just let her be introduced in her own movie. She pretty much stole the major sequence she was in though.
The action sequences I have to say were much better than Superman. Although I agree with the above some of the CGI was suspect. Not to mention that Snyder filmed many of the cool Batman sequences way to close to the camera (an action sequence cardinal sin).
All in all, it was decent IMO and worth the price of admission. It was better than Fantastic 4, better than the Green Lantern, better than Iron Man 2, better than either of the last 2 Spiderman movies. However, that's probably as high as it goes on my list. The cast definitely wasn't the weak leak. Snyder's directing and writing was.
They should seriously fire Snyder because this could have been great with just a few tweaks.
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Daughter and I saw it today.
I never read the B Vs S comic book sequence...
Opening on Bruce Wayne's backstory was a waste of time,.. we are familiar with the who and why of Batman.... I am guessing this is supposed to be the same Batman that Bale played, as he is older, and Wayne manor is destroyed.... but his leg is better....
Kudos to Ben Affleck........ he did a fantastic job on this....I am not a fan and have been down on him getting this role from the first news I heard of it.... but he nailed it....this aint no daredevil....
We both really enjoyed this movie...if the wife wanted to go see it tomorrow,..I would go with her and pay to see it again...no problem,.. and the DVD will sit proudly amongst my collection.
The directing pretty much sucked though....the dream sequences...okay,..kinda letting you know where the characters minds are at...and there at the end there were a few scenes that were drug out pretty bad...my guess was it was an attempt to build drama...but it was poorly done.
would have liked to know something about why Lex hated Batman??
I kinda liked the minor little introductions of Aquaman, Flash, and Cable....it was Cable wasn't it?......small moment in the story adding to the greater whole later...
Wonder Woman....DAMN....... I was a big Linda Carter fan back in the day and was kinda dreading seeing a chick as slight as Gadot take on the role.... but this chick was awesome....this aint no Thursday night TV version of wonder woman....pretty certain if the movie was Batman Vs Wonder Woman,...Bats is getting his black armored ass handed to him...that chick is a total badass......and immortal apparently?....way looking forward to her stand alone movie next year.
Like I said, we enjoyed it...I could nit pick it for all the stuff they tried to cram in there...but I understand they had to lay the foundation for everything else
I never read the B Vs S comic book sequence...
Opening on Bruce Wayne's backstory was a waste of time,.. we are familiar with the who and why of Batman.... I am guessing this is supposed to be the same Batman that Bale played, as he is older, and Wayne manor is destroyed.... but his leg is better....
Kudos to Ben Affleck........ he did a fantastic job on this....I am not a fan and have been down on him getting this role from the first news I heard of it.... but he nailed it....this aint no daredevil....
We both really enjoyed this movie...if the wife wanted to go see it tomorrow,..I would go with her and pay to see it again...no problem,.. and the DVD will sit proudly amongst my collection.
The directing pretty much sucked though....the dream sequences...okay,..kinda letting you know where the characters minds are at...and there at the end there were a few scenes that were drug out pretty bad...my guess was it was an attempt to build drama...but it was poorly done.
would have liked to know something about why Lex hated Batman??
I kinda liked the minor little introductions of Aquaman, Flash, and Cable....it was Cable wasn't it?......small moment in the story adding to the greater whole later...
Wonder Woman....DAMN....... I was a big Linda Carter fan back in the day and was kinda dreading seeing a chick as slight as Gadot take on the role.... but this chick was awesome....this aint no Thursday night TV version of wonder woman....pretty certain if the movie was Batman Vs Wonder Woman,...Bats is getting his black armored ass handed to him...that chick is a total badass......and immortal apparently?....way looking forward to her stand alone movie next year.
Like I said, we enjoyed it...I could nit pick it for all the stuff they tried to cram in there...but I understand they had to lay the foundation for everything else
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Cable is Marvel. It was Cyborg.
lol...realized that a while after the post....wasn't a total comic book geek back then...just about 80%...so I miss on some of them,lol.
was kinda badass watching how he was made
so,...what was your take on the WW character?? Being immortal,...and being able to leap 80 feet with striking authority, etc..... she is obviously more powerful than any WW I have ever seen before..... I am guessing...strength for strength...she is probably on par with Capt. America or so....
Its funny because I actually had this same thought about Wonder Woman a few years ago. There was an animated film that she was in and she was a total Badass almost on Supermans level.
I was like what? Wonder Woman isn't that powerful!
But then I read a bunch of her lore online and yeah, she's definitely super. She's nearly indestructible. One of our resident experts can elaborate, I dont read comics, and I dont mean that as a knock, I should because a lot of the plots are super engaging.
Well I remember in the old TV series she was as well. The series started out in World War 2 and then fast forwarded to present day and she had not aged. I never read her comic but always assumed she was immortal or aged really really slowly.
Also, in a cartoon that my kids watched they portrayed her just as powerful as Superman. She could even fly.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Oh, I don't know my comics terribly well--I asked a friend after the movie
The character itself--the acting, anyway--was done well. She can act, but though they did all they could with CGI and limiting camera angles, they couldn't make her buff enough. Felt like I as watching a dancer, not an Amazonian warrior. Still, everything up to her arrival in the fight was handled very well. I really, REALLY wish they would have left it at that but, like so much in this movie, desperation to build the larger universe ruined that. Anyway, as far as the strength, I was cool with that. They're trying to make their own Steve Rogers, so it's all good.
The lariat must have been 200 feet long to do what it did, though, and how in the heck was she doing damage to something they couldn't seem to damage with heavy weaponry? That bit felt about the same as having WW bust into the fight--they desperately felt the need to shoehorn her in for the bigger universe, and just doing the slick intro with her interactions with Wayne wasn't enough for them. No reason at all for her to show up at the fight, or have a major role in the movie. One of the many large problems I had with this train wreck.
Different iteration Batman (it's the veteran Batman from Dark Knight Returns basically, down to quite a bit of dialogue and actions), and they needed that bit for later. It doesn't work without Thomas Wayne's dying words, IMO.
Agree with most of this. I think the dream sequence is useful to foreshadow who the bad guy will be in JL 1&2 though. If they had left it out and just went with the "visitor" telling Bruce to listen to "her" it would have been sufficient.
And I agree on the quality of the TV actor. Hopefully the guy who is taking part in the movies will pan out.
And yes, Affleck knocked it out of the park.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
The problem is, you don't make an unimaginative, rehashed, and utterly boring opening sequence to a film merely to set up a plot twist. You either go for a different plot twist or set it up in a much better manner. They had the perfect opening to the movie; unfortunately, they pushed it until later and bloated the movie with a really boring, eye-rolling "are we REALLY doing THIS again?" opening.
Plus, you don't put in really stupid, head-scratching dream sequences ONLY to set up future movies. Another of the major problems with this movie, doing things that ONLY set up other movies and ruin/screw up the movie you're actually making.
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
Affleck was great in BvS and Gone Girl was really good. He directed and starred in The Town and Argo... He's been on fire recently.
NJCardFan
ASFN Icon
Well, in DC Universe Online they're on opposite sides of the country Metropolis(along with Central City and Coast City) is played in daytime on a bright sunny day while Gotham is dark and rainy. However, it really depends. I believe most cities in the DC universe are somewhat close to each other hence you get crossovers. When it comes to this movie, they might be using the coordinates from the early days that placed Gotham in South Jersey and Metropolis just across the Delaware Bay so, yes, at the end of The Dark Knight Returns, It's conceivable that Batman nuked Metropolis.
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Just looking at this map, Gotham looks to be about where Sea Isle City or Stone Harbor, NJ is while Metropolis is about where Lewes, Delaware is which is where the ferry goes to from Cape May.
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GatorAZ
feed hopkins
I believe the winged creatures in the dream were Darkseid's army or something but there's no way any non extreme comic honk would know that. Maybe a post credit peak would've been a better way to push the next villain?
Was very disappointed with this movie. So much going on and took so long for the real action to happen. Acting was good but the storyline wasn't. This criticism is coming from someone that pretty much loves every movie. I can honestly say that we would have walked out of the movie if my daughter wasn't in the next theater watching Alligent (which was a good movie, IMO).
NJCardFan
ASFN Icon
Going with Darkseid right from the jump would be a big mistake. Think of it as Marvel going with Thanos right from the jump on The Avengers. You have to build the team first and for JLA it would make more sense to have Brainiac and build to Darkseid.
I know exactly what it was and the scene still added nothing for me. Mainly because it was a dream sequence that ultimately means nothing and it added ZERO to the narrative of the movie. It felt so out of place not to mention Bruce seemed to have very detailed and dialoged dream sequence in that scene compared to the others. LOL.
crisper57
Open the Roof!
My spoilery thoughts:
C+
C+
I liked the movie overall, mostly because I've wanted to see some live-action version of "World's Finest" for most of my life, but I do have some complaints.
Batman: This was the best live-action Batman in terms of look, Bat-voice, fighting style, and gear. He makes use of his grapple and utility belt like I had always imagined it. However, THIS IS NOT BATMAN. Batman does not kill. I guess we should have known better when they released pictures of the Batmobile with machine guns mounted on it.
The Frank Miller "Dark Knight Returns" version that this is based on is not canon. But Snyder once again slavishly translated that version onto the screen without really examining the character's depths. I am very, very happy with Ben Affleck's Batman performance. I just wish he had a better script to work with and hope a stand-alone Bat-film does the character justice. If he is going to be the leader of the Justice League, why should they unite behind a cold-blooded murderer?
Superman:Didn't have much to do in this one other than act as a plot point for Batman's and Lex's rage. Underutilized until the end, when, they initiate the Death of Superman arc. I gotta admit, that was a ballsy choice and we will see if it pays off in JL: Part I.
Holly Hunter:What was the point of her character again? They could have trimmed her entire story and saved us 15 minutes of movie time. She wants to have a conversation about Superman's role in the world. We get a lot of preamble to their big showdown in Congress. And before we can actually watch a little back-and-forth between the two, they dun got blowed up. Also, a minor quibble: Mercy got killed too! I liked that character in the animated series and thought she could have done more, like maybe replace the Russian henchman that kept popping up in the movie.
Lex:Ugh. Awful Terrible. Stupid. He wants to bring down Superman why? Daddy issues? Atheism? When he gets access to the Kryptonian ship, he gains access to the knowledge of 100,000 planets. This is presumably where he learns about Darkseid. Because he knows about "Him" at the end of the movie. So if Superman is the great deterrent to this Intergalactic Devil, why would Lex continue on his path to destroying Superman?
Also, Lex clearly knows that Clark Kent and Superman are the same guy. Do you know how you bring down Superman? You tell that to the world and let the chaos ensue. His loved ones would be under constant threat. He'd be debilitated by people seeking him out directly for help. Let's have the Bat kill him! Failing that, lets create an uncontrollable monster to kill him. Okay. What happens if Doomsday does succeed? How do you stop him? Also, how does mixing Kryptonian and human DNA equate to THAT?
Wonder Woman: No complaints. Perfectly introduced.
Lois: They really wanted to make her a badass journalist who can handle herself. Except she can't. She is constantly thrown into harm's way and she can never get herself out. Superman to the rescue, over and over and over...
Intro of the Justice League Members: It's fine, but it takes you out of the movie a bit. And Lex has apparently already assigned them their logos and hero names, based of the file names on his computer.
Jimmy Olson:Okay, I have to admit, that was pretty good. Actually, it was wrong, but in the most twisted way possible. If he isn't going to have a larger role in the universe, why not just do what they did?
Bat-Signal:If there is a bat-signal, there is a Commissioner Gordon lighting it up to call in the Batman. That makes the police complicit in all of his killings. I can't imagine any police force calling in a murderer. But if they do tacitly accept his methods, why is a cop shooting at Batman early in the movie?
All-in-all, those are just whiny fanboy complaints for the most part. Despite all that, I enjoyed the movie. Maybe I had set my expectations at an appropriately low level going in, but I was surprised at how much none of this ruined the movie for me (except Batman killing people).
Batman: This was the best live-action Batman in terms of look, Bat-voice, fighting style, and gear. He makes use of his grapple and utility belt like I had always imagined it. However, THIS IS NOT BATMAN. Batman does not kill. I guess we should have known better when they released pictures of the Batmobile with machine guns mounted on it.
The Frank Miller "Dark Knight Returns" version that this is based on is not canon. But Snyder once again slavishly translated that version onto the screen without really examining the character's depths. I am very, very happy with Ben Affleck's Batman performance. I just wish he had a better script to work with and hope a stand-alone Bat-film does the character justice. If he is going to be the leader of the Justice League, why should they unite behind a cold-blooded murderer?
Superman:Didn't have much to do in this one other than act as a plot point for Batman's and Lex's rage. Underutilized until the end, when, they initiate the Death of Superman arc. I gotta admit, that was a ballsy choice and we will see if it pays off in JL: Part I.
Holly Hunter:What was the point of her character again? They could have trimmed her entire story and saved us 15 minutes of movie time. She wants to have a conversation about Superman's role in the world. We get a lot of preamble to their big showdown in Congress. And before we can actually watch a little back-and-forth between the two, they dun got blowed up. Also, a minor quibble: Mercy got killed too! I liked that character in the animated series and thought she could have done more, like maybe replace the Russian henchman that kept popping up in the movie.
Lex:Ugh. Awful Terrible. Stupid. He wants to bring down Superman why? Daddy issues? Atheism? When he gets access to the Kryptonian ship, he gains access to the knowledge of 100,000 planets. This is presumably where he learns about Darkseid. Because he knows about "Him" at the end of the movie. So if Superman is the great deterrent to this Intergalactic Devil, why would Lex continue on his path to destroying Superman?
Also, Lex clearly knows that Clark Kent and Superman are the same guy. Do you know how you bring down Superman? You tell that to the world and let the chaos ensue. His loved ones would be under constant threat. He'd be debilitated by people seeking him out directly for help. Let's have the Bat kill him! Failing that, lets create an uncontrollable monster to kill him. Okay. What happens if Doomsday does succeed? How do you stop him? Also, how does mixing Kryptonian and human DNA equate to THAT?
Wonder Woman: No complaints. Perfectly introduced.
Lois: They really wanted to make her a badass journalist who can handle herself. Except she can't. She is constantly thrown into harm's way and she can never get herself out. Superman to the rescue, over and over and over...
Intro of the Justice League Members: It's fine, but it takes you out of the movie a bit. And Lex has apparently already assigned them their logos and hero names, based of the file names on his computer.
Jimmy Olson:Okay, I have to admit, that was pretty good. Actually, it was wrong, but in the most twisted way possible. If he isn't going to have a larger role in the universe, why not just do what they did?
Bat-Signal:If there is a bat-signal, there is a Commissioner Gordon lighting it up to call in the Batman. That makes the police complicit in all of his killings. I can't imagine any police force calling in a murderer. But if they do tacitly accept his methods, why is a cop shooting at Batman early in the movie?
All-in-all, those are just whiny fanboy complaints for the most part. Despite all that, I enjoyed the movie. Maybe I had set my expectations at an appropriately low level going in, but I was surprised at how much none of this ruined the movie for me (except Batman killing people).
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Batman - I am OK with this portrayal. In the original comics Batman killed. Not only killed but used a gun. He was not "tamed down" until later. Even then over the years in the comics Batman occasionally did kill people he deemed too dangerous. The other reason I am OK with it is because it fits. There is a line in the movie that basically explains it. He has played by the rules and gotten nowhere. Criminals comeback, they kill his friends, some heroes turn bad (another reference) and after 20 years he is completely beat down.
Superman wouldn't have cared what he did if this was the sterilized version of Batman. Batman going too far is what got Superman's attention. Not to mention that he brings Bruce back from the edge which is the catalyst for Bruce wanting to do things the right way and form the JL in his honor.
Jimmy - hated what they did. Period.
Lex - he was different. Wasn't great but not has horrible as I predicted. His character seemed more like a spoiled brat with parent issues then a megalomaniac super villain.
Superman wouldn't have cared what he did if this was the sterilized version of Batman. Batman going too far is what got Superman's attention. Not to mention that he brings Bruce back from the edge which is the catalyst for Bruce wanting to do things the right way and form the JL in his honor.
Jimmy - hated what they did. Period.
Lex - he was different. Wasn't great but not has horrible as I predicted. His character seemed more like a spoiled brat with parent issues then a megalomaniac super villain.
So, I heard somewhere that this movie was the highest grossing Easter weekend movie ever and the highest first weekend Superhero movie ever as well. This coming with a lot of bad reviews (me being one of them). Some cool parts, but WAY too long and confusing
crisper57
Open the Roof!
I think Batman could have still crossed lines that made Superman angry without killing. Maybe to solve the issue of criminals coming back, he disables them, permanently. Paralyze them. Beat them. Cut off fingers. Torture them. Whatever. That could have still done it. I still just can't reconcile how Gotham PD would sanction his actions by still using the Bat-Signal. If that didn't exist, I may even be able to accept the killing. But I can't reconcile the two.
I should clarify my Jimmy Olson statement. It was horrible. It was wrong. I was shocked by it. But for some reason I still giggle about it.
I loved the portrayal of Lex. I just wish he motivations were a little more concrete and that the results of his actions had a little more impact. He started a smear campaign against Superman, but we got very little in terms of payoff from those efforts in the movie. I think that would have been a fascinating angle to explore more deeply. Maybe even to the point of having the world divided on whether Superman or Doomsday should win.
Also, why are we nuking Doomsday that early? Had he done anything up to that point to indicate that he was a nuke-worthy threat? Seems like the President went with the nuclear option a bit early.
I should clarify my Jimmy Olson statement. It was horrible. It was wrong. I was shocked by it. But for some reason I still giggle about it.
I loved the portrayal of Lex. I just wish he motivations were a little more concrete and that the results of his actions had a little more impact. He started a smear campaign against Superman, but we got very little in terms of payoff from those efforts in the movie. I think that would have been a fascinating angle to explore more deeply. Maybe even to the point of having the world divided on whether Superman or Doomsday should win.
Also, why are we nuking Doomsday that early? Had he done anything up to that point to indicate that he was a nuke-worthy threat? Seems like the President went with the nuclear option a bit early.
Well Doomsday was sort of throw away for me in this movie. I didn't hate Lex but didn't love him either. Agree with you on Jimmy.
In terms of Batman, it's easy for me to reconcile because I never viewed the character as incapable of killing his enemies. Just what it would take to push him over. Gotham PD has always been on the edge with Batman throughout the comics. The police did take a shot at him during the movie which probably means there is no "official" stance on Batman. Also, I don't buy Batman could go around paralyzing permanently his foes with surgical precision without killing some. I get your point though.
If I grew up with a vision of Batman who never kills....I would have a problem with it too. The reality is though throughout the comics both Batman and Superman have killed multiple times.
In terms of Batman, it's easy for me to reconcile because I never viewed the character as incapable of killing his enemies. Just what it would take to push him over. Gotham PD has always been on the edge with Batman throughout the comics. The police did take a shot at him during the movie which probably means there is no "official" stance on Batman. Also, I don't buy Batman could go around paralyzing permanently his foes with surgical precision without killing some. I get your point though.
If I grew up with a vision of Batman who never kills....I would have a problem with it too. The reality is though throughout the comics both Batman and Superman have killed multiple times.
BillsCarnage
ASFN Addict
It's still Superman and still Batman. Two of the most iconic superheros ever. This movie will probably be the second coming of Jurassic World. Horrible movie that still draws in the crowds.
From what I am hearing is that this movie was similar to the first Captain America movie. It was drawn out and somewhat boring as it gave you the history of his character. It was a movie to build up the others which worked as the second one was awesome. This movie sounds like it's building up its characters at least batman and wonder women. Now I haven't seen it yet but from what I am gathering from you guys is it was drawn out trying to tell the stories of the characters. The next movie will be much more entertaining as they don't have to waste time on the character building anymore(while I hope this is true).
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