Deandre Ayton and Rookie expectations

[Yuma]

I've been watching Ayton. And I have been reading posts about Ayton. There seems to be a split of what people want him to be versus what he is.

In college I saw a guy with great footwork, spin moves, and beating guys to the hoop for lay ins, hook shots, or low post jumpers. Now with the Suns the same guy. Win with Fred Astaire moves, like a Hakeem Olajawon.

However, I read frustrated posts wanting a banger, like Shaq, or a rim rocker like Amare Stoudemire.

This guy has never shown those tendencies ever!

I never once in college saw him back some guy down and bull over him like Shaq. Or dominatingly rim blast like Stoudemire. Yet every game people are like, when will he start doing these things?

Really? Did you watch him in college? what ever made you think he was a Shaq or Stoudemire?

This guy has a soft shot, and tries to manuever smartly to the rim.

Not to say someday he won't learn the power game.

Give a guy with Fred Astaire moves time to learn to break dance.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I've been watching Ayton. And I have been reading posts about Ayton. There seems to be a split of what people want him to be versus what he is.

In college I saw a guy with great footwork, spin moves, and beating guys to the hoop for lay ins, hook shots, or low post jumpers. Now with the Suns the same guy. Win with Fred Astaire moves, like a Hakeem Olajawon.

However, I read frustrated posts wanting a banger, like Shaq, or a rim rocker like Amare Stoudemire.

This guy has never shown those tendencies ever!

I never once in college saw him back some guy down and bull over him like Shaq. Or dominatingly rim blast like Stoudemire. Yet every game people are like, when will he start doing these things?

Really? Did you watch him in college? what ever made you think he was a Shaq or Stoudemire?

This guy has a soft shot, and tries to manuever smartly to the rim.

Not to say someday he won't learn the power game.

Give a guy with Fred Astaire moves time to learn to break dance.

Hakeem Olajuwon came out of the womb playing defense... despite the fact that he didn't start playing basketball until he was a teenager. Defense is about desire. The criticisms overwhelmingly come on that end where we see next to none of it.

 

[Yuma]

Hakeem Olajuwon came out of the womb playing defense... despite the fact that he didn't start playing basketball until he was a teenager. Defense is about desire. The criticisms overwhelmingly come on that end where we see next to none of it.

While I agree with your assesment of Olajawon and his defense as a rookie, what in college led anyone to believe Ayton was a 2 or 3 block a game lock down defender? The games I watched he guarded out to the three point line and was adept at switching on defense. The low block stuff was done by the Center on Ayton's team. Yeah, Ayton played PF at Arizona. So, again, the expectations of our fans versus the player we drafted are two different things.

 

[Cheesebeef]

While I agree with your assesment of Olajawon and his defense as a rookie, what in college led anyone to believe Ayton was a 2 or 3 block a game lock down defender? The games I watched he guarded out to the three point line and was adept at switching on defense. The low block stuff was done by the Center on Ayton's team. Yeah, Ayton played PF at Arizona. So, again, the expectations of our fans versus the player we drafted are two different things.

dude... you gotta stop putting words in people's mouths. I'm not talking about expecting Hakeem D out of the gate. I'm talking BASIC EFFORT which we are seeing almost none of from Ayton to defend the basket.

People made A LOT of excuses for that when he was on the Cats because he played "PF" and said once he was a C, you'd see that. There's almost none of it. A massive lack of defensive intensity, much less knowing how and when to help.

And sure... he's a rookie so he'll learn those things, but I've been stunned that he's had to learn seemingly everything at that end of the court, including even wanting to make an impact.

 

[Sunburn]

Ya what he said ^

 

[Yuma]

dude... you gotta stop putting words in people's mouths. I'm not talking about expecting Hakeem D out of the gate. I'm talking BASIC EFFORT which we are seeing almost none of from Ayton to defend the basket.

People made A LOT of excuses for that when he was on the Cats because he played "PF" and said once he was a C, you'd see that. There's almost none of it. A massive lack of defensive intensity, much less knowing how and when to help.

And sure... he's a rookie so he'll learn those things, but I've been stunned that he's had to learn seemingly everything at that end of the court, including even wanting to make an impact.

I am not. There's a whole thread about his blocks or lack thereof. It's been a thing on this message board. Seriously.

I see a style thing versus a lack of effort thing. The Suns let him go all the way out to the three point line on switches, instead of staying on the low post like most centers. Sure he alters some three point shots. But then he's not there for rebounds or blocked shots on guys who get offensive rebounds. I have been watching him on plays even when he's not involved, and he plays a ton on the perimeter, like a PF. So you and I are approaching the conclusion from seperate ways, or views. He helps a lot on guys driving and then gets burned when they pass to the centers like Adams he has left to play help defense. I see he doesn't stay home enough on some centers like that. He tries too much. His effort is not appropriate for a Center, More like a PF. He really needs a Center to be brought in to teach him the center position in the NBA.

 

[sunsfan88]

There was a thread on rookie expectations for Ayton that was active till last week

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/expectations-for-aytons-rookie-year.275710/

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am not. There's a whole thread about his blocks or lack thereof. It's been a thing on this message board. Seriously.

I see a style thing versus a lack of effort thing. The Suns let him go all the way out to the three point line on switches, instead of staying on the low post like most centers. Sure he alters some three point shots. But then he's not there for rebounds or blocked shots on guys who get offensive rebounds. I have been watching him on plays even when he's not involved, and he plays a ton on the perimeter, like a PF. So you and I are approaching the conclusion from seperate ways, or views. He helps a lot on guys driving and then gets burned when they pass to the centers like Adams he has left to play help defense. I see he doesn't stay home enough on some centers like that. He tries too much. His effort is not appropriate for a Center, More like a PF. He really needs a Center to be brought in to teach him the center position in the NBA.

maybe. I'm just really surprised by the seeming lack of instincts a big guy like that has.

 

[AzStevenCal]

maybe. I'm just really surprised by the seeming lack of instincts a big guy like that has.

There was a time during the season where I just wanted no part of Ayton with our pick. I changed my mind because despite his lack of awareness, he still dominated in his own way.

 

[Yuma]

There was a time during the season where I just wanted no part of Ayton with our pick. I changed my mind because despite his lack of awareness, he still dominated in his own way.

I know. He's not playing like a center. But at the end of the day he has double doubles, on a team where guys are struggling to get points or rebounds. Arguably, he doesn't know his position or how to play in the NBA, and he still is contributing more than 2/3's of the team. That's why I believe his upside is so huge. When he finally discovers how to play, what in the hell will his stats be then?

 

[Yuma]

Suns center Deandre Ayton named finalist for Rookie of the Year

Phoenix Suns center Deandre Ayton was named a finalist for the NBA’s 2018-19 Rookie of the Year Friday, the NBA announced.

Ayton, the No. 1 overall pick in the 2018 NBA Draft, was the only rookie to average a double-double. Ayton’s 10.3 rebounds per game was the top mark among rookies and his 16.3 points per game ranked fourth behind Luka Doncic, Trae Young and Collin Sexton.

The 20-year-old’s rookie season was the most efficient historically given his production levels. Ayton is one of 35 rookies to average at least 16 points and 10 rebounds a game and his 60.8 TS% is the best of them all. Ayton is the the third rookie this decade to average a double-double, joining Blake Griffin and Karl-Anthony Towns.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

He has zero chance to win (he'll get third almost certainly), but it's good he was nominated. The future is bright!

 

[Yuma]

He has zero chance to win (he'll get third almost certainly), but it's good he was nominated. The future is bright!

Maybe second I am hoping.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Maybe second I am hoping.

Trae Young.

 

[Superbone]

Shaq tonight on TNT:

“Deandre Ayton had a OK season but you know he was out a lot with injuries.”

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Maybe second I am hoping.

I think there's about a 99% chance he gets third. However, he's still got a great chance to be the top guy 5-10 years from now, which matters way more.

 

[Mainstreet]

Shaq tonight on TNT:

“Deandre Ayton had a OK season but you know he was out a lot with injuries.”

Doncic played in 72 games while Ayton played in 71.

Trae Young played in 81 games.

 

[Hoop Head]

This essentially guarantees his spot on the All-Rookie 1st team so I guess it's good. I hope Bridges makes the 2nd team. I know Ayton isn't winning this and that's ok. He can shoot for "Most Improved" next year.

 

[Superbone]

Doncic played in 72 games while Ayton played in 71.

Trae Young played in 81 games.

Don’t shoot the messenger. I agree that he wasn’t injured “a lot”. Also, he played better than “OK”. He did some things very few have done before and one thing nobody has done before.

 

[BC867]

I think, to be unbiased, that the eye test showed that Ayton's influence on wins
didn't match his impressive rookie stats. And, as a Suns fan, I agree.

But the fault wasn't his. It was on a fired Coach who didn't use him properly on
offense. And revolving General Managers who didn't provide a solid Point Guard
to feed him or Power Forward to take pressure off him in the post.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think, to be unbiased, that the eye test showed that Ayton's influence on wins
didn't match his impressive rookie stats. And, as a Suns fan, I agree.

But the fault wasn't his. It was on a fired Coach who didn't use him properly on
offense. And revolving General Managers who didn't provide a solid Point Guard
to feed him or Power Forward to take pressure off him in the post.

Lots of culpable actors in this play, but let’s not alleviate Ayton of his share of the blame. He was part of it all. I hope we see leaps and bounds in his growth this offseason.

 

[Yuma]

Ayton's style of defense is to rotate to whoever has the ball. If that guys is behind the three point line, he is going to close out on that guy. I think that just leaves the paint open for offensive rebounds, and missed shot block opportunities. Until he sticks in the paint, and defends the paint like most highly regarded NBA defensive centers, we will always be light on defense in the paint. Partly it's up to a coach to change a guys tendencies for the betterment of the team. Ayton is just playing like he did in college defensively. No one on the Suns seemed to be able to change that, or they wanted him to play that way.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think, to be unbiased, that the eye test showed that Ayton's influence on wins
didn't match his impressive rookie stats. And, as a Suns fan, I agree.

But the fault wasn't his. It was on a fired Coach who didn't use him properly on
offense. And revolving General Managers who didn't provide a solid Point Guard
to feed him or Power Forward to take pressure off him in the post.

That's not unbiased, that is applying your usual bias by putting blame on others while absolving any and all blame directed towards Ayton himself. Claiming Ayton needed others to get him more involved is highlighting why he doesn't deserve an award for his play because he didn't do enough to earn it.

What makes Ayton special if it takes changing 50% of the players on the court with him, and getting a new coach for him, to get him to impact the game more? Why then would it be Ayton impacting the game more and not those 2 other players and coach?

 

[Mainstreet]

Don’t shoot the messenger. I agree that he wasn’t injured “a lot”. Also, he played better than “OK”. He did some things very few have done before and one thing nobody has done before.

Oh, I was agreeing with you.

I think Shaq was off base saying Ayton was injured a lot. That's why I included the breakdown on games played for the three primary rookie of the year candidates.

 

[BC867]

Ayton's style of defense is to rotate to whoever has the ball. If that guys is behind the three point line, he is going to close out on that guy. I think that just leaves the paint open for offensive rebounds, and missed shot block opportunities. Until he sticks in the paint, and defends the paint like most highly regarded NBA defensive centers, we will always be light on defense in the paint. Partly it's up to a coach to change a guys tendencies for the betterment of the team. Ayton is just playing like he did in college defensively. No one on the Suns seemed to be able to change that, or they wanted him to play that way.

Ayton played his one year at UofA at Power Forward. He was not the Center.

It takes a talented big-man coach to teach him to play Center without any
history of it beyond High School. And the Suns (evidently) did not have that
Assistant Coach.

Blaming Ayton (and Booker and all of the Small Forwards covering Power
Forward) is unfair to the players.

Hopefully, that will change this coming season with Sarver taking steps
back from his micro-managing and his hire of Monty. And hopefully, with
his turning the team over to Jones. We're pulling for him, even though
he didn't earn the promotion.