Deandre Ayton facing 25 game suspension

[Dr. Jones]

As of right now Doncic 10th in scoring, 13th in assists and 27th in rebounds. I thought he'd be a bust.

Why? The consensus on him was pretty unanimous leading up to the draft.

I could be wrong..... but the poll on this board was less than 25% would take Ayton IIRC. It was nuts in my eyes.

EDIT: Found the thread. The poll was Ayton or Doncic. Ayton won 104 votes to 10 votes. That is an insane landslide of homerism IMO.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/ayton-or-doncic.265285/

He had star written all over him in my eyes.

Agreed

yeah... people said that last year when he came out and averaged 21/8/6/1. So far this year, he's at 25/9/7/2.

And if this is a peak of 25/9/7/2, that's going to be one of the best players of all time.

I really don't get why people think the guy younger than Ayton has already peaked. Dude's still playing with baby-fat that's going to get leaner with better health staff, nutritionists and NBA weight-training. He could easily get better and move up to Harden levels, while not being nearly as selfish with the ball.

It's going to be the Suns version of Levi Brown (no heart or killer instinct) versus Adrian Peterson.

 

[Mainstreet]

Gina Mizell‏Verified account @ginamizell


Deandre Ayton was doing some extra work with Cheick Diallo, as well as assistant/player development coaches, today after practice. Due to game/travel scheduling, this was the #Suns’ first true practice since Ayton’s suspension.

1:09 PM - 31 Oct 2019

 

[Mainstreet]

Gina Mizell‏Verified account @ginamizell


Coach Monty Williams on Ayton’s work: “Just keeps the gears oiled. He’s gonna be out for a while, but he’s our guy...Now’s a chance for us to really show that we are a family. We have a guy who made a mistake, has shown great remorse. #Suns

1:09 PM - 31 Oct 2019

 

[Mainstreet]

Gina Mizell‏Verified account @ginamizell


More Williams on Ayton: “This is what family does. We hang in there with him. Love on him. And he’s doing the same thing. You watch him after our games, on the plane, he’s the first person there to greet everybody. It says a lot about him growing up. So he’s doing well.” #Suns

1:09 PM - 31 Oct 2019

 

[Mainstreet]

Gina Mizell‏Verified account @ginamizell


More Williams on Ayton: “He’ll be hungry when he gets back. I’m sure when you have the game taken away from you, you just have a desire to get back on the floor. Not only to play, but to be there for your teammates.” #Suns

1:09 PM - 31 Oct 2019

 

[SirStefan32]

I could be wrong..... but the poll on this board was less than 25% would take Ayton IIRC. It was nuts in my eyes.

EDIT: Found the thread. The poll was Ayton or Doncic. Ayton won 104 votes to 10 votes. That is an insane landslide of homerism IMO.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/ayton-or-doncic.265285/



Agreed



It's going to be the Suns version of Levi Brown (no heart or killer instinct) versus Adrian Peterson.

I wouldn't agree that it was a huge amount of homerism. Ayton was considered the number one pick by most experts as well. There was one site (Stepien, maybe) that was all about Luka, but outside of them, almost all of them considered Ayton to be the number one pick.

I voted for Ayton, even though I was a huge Luka fan. I knew Luka would be good, but I didn't realize he would be as good as he is. Additionally, Ayton flat out had more potential, and the Suns already had Booker and no Center. I considered Ayton's potential and fit next to Booker, and went with Ayton. I am not saying that there was no homerism. there definitely was some homerism and some prejudice against a white European player, but I don't think 104 votes against 10 was an unreasonable result. I think that lines up with what the experts thought as well.

That said, huge props to the ten of you who stuck with Luka in that poll.

 

[Covert Rain]

I could be wrong..... but the poll on this board was less than 25% would take Ayton IIRC. It was nuts in my eyes.

EDIT: Found the thread. The poll was Ayton or Doncic. Ayton won 104 votes to 10 votes. That is an insane landslide of homerism IMO.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/ayton-or-doncic.265285/



Agreed



It's going to be the Suns version of Levi Brown (no heart or killer instinct) versus Adrian Peterson.

It's not homerism though if most fans agree with the majority of NBA scouts can it? I could buy into what you were saying if there wasn't a pro consensus but that wasn't the case.

 

[SirStefan32]

I read the first couple of pages of that old thread, and there were multiple people being very complimentary of Doncic, but going with Ayton. There was actually a lot less homerism and anti-Doncic stuff than I remembered. It must have been just a handful of people who were set on the whole "No white Euros" thing. First couple of pages of that thread looked very reasonable. I really liked JC's post regarding the 1984 draft- Sure Jordan was the best player in the draft, but pretty sure the Rockets were happy with who they picked at number one.

 

[TJ]

It's going to be the Suns version of Levi Brown (no heart or killer instinct) versus Adrian Peterson.

This is an awful take. Levi Brown was a complete non-factor and a liability for the Cardinals; whereas, Ayton is the 2nd best player on the Suns who had a historic rookie season for his position.

 

[TJ]

I read the first couple of pages of that old thread, and there were multiple people being very complimentary of Doncic, but going with Ayton. There was actually a lot less homerism and anti-Doncic stuff than I remembered. It must have been just a handful of people who were set on the whole "No white Euros" thing. First couple of pages of that thread looked very reasonable. I really liked JC's post regarding the 1984 draft- Sure Jordan was the best player in the draft, but pretty sure the Rockets were happy with who they picked at number one.

Im fine with Doncic being the best player in the draft as long as Ayton is one of the best centers in the game in a couple of years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I feel the same, I feel like he has already peaked. Not that he isn’t very good - he is, but I still feel ayton can be the better player.

You think he’s already peaked?!? Ooookaaaay . . .

 

[AzStevenCal]

You think he’s already peaked?!? Ooookaaaay . . .

I don't think he's peaked but I do think he's much closer to his peak than the typical teenaged draft pick. I'd worry more about the possible early decline of his body given that he's been a pro for several years now. He's a very cerebral player and doesn't kill the knees the way a lot of stars do but that's a lot of wear and tear even for non-jumpers. But even if he starts to fall off a year or two earlier than most players I doubt that Dallas will ever have cause to regret drafting him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think he's peaked but I do think he's much closer to his peak than the typical teenaged draft pick. I'd worry more about the possible early decline of his body given that he's been a pro for several years now. He's a very cerebral player and doesn't kill the knees the way a lot of stars do but that's a lot of wear and tear even for non-jumpers. But even if he starts to fall off a year or two earlier than most players I doubt that Dallas will ever have cause to regret drafting him.

Even if his numbers don’t increase exponentially over the years there are so many nuanced things that players learn that take them to higher and higher levels. To think a teenage star is even close to peaking is shortsighted or bias-driven imho.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Even if his numbers don’t increase exponentially over the years there are so many nuanced things that players learn that take them to higher and higher levels. To think a teenage star is even close to peaking is shortsighted or bias-driven imho.

Absolutely. Even though he's been playing pro ball for years now he's still just a baby to the NBA game.

 

[elindholm]

He could easily get better and move up to Harden levels, while not being nearly as selfish with the ball.

I just don't see it. He's a below-average athlete by NBA standards, especially among wings. So far, he's putting up gaudy numbers on energy and street smarts, but it's also true that the Mavericks are losing, so there's not that much incentive to shut him down. I don't think he can sustain elite production once defenses take the time to figure out how to exploit his lack of athleticism.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I just don't see it. He's a below-average athlete by NBA standards, especially among wings.

he's just as good of an athlete as a Paul Pierce was, while having much better natural instincts and rebounding ability. Do you think it's just a fluke that in his first two years he's averaging 8.5 rebounds per game? You don't board that well if you're a below average athlete at 6'8.

So far, he's putting up gaudy numbers on energy and street smarts, but it's also true that the Mavericks are losing, so there's not that much incentive to shut him down.

WTF are you talking about? So far they're 3-1 this season while he's playing out of his mind and again, won 9 more games last season than they did the season before where he was the ONLY upgrade.

I don't think he can sustain elite production once defenses take the time to figure out how to exploit his lack of athleticism.

This just screams to me "i made an opinion on him already and am loathe to admit I was wrong".

 

[Cheesebeef]

Even if his numbers don’t increase exponentially over the years there are so many nuanced things that players learn that take them to higher and higher levels. To think a teenage star is even close to peaking is shortsighted or bias-driven imho.

I think it stems from the biggest problem in this entire country at this point. People would seemingly rather kill themselves than admit they're wrong about ANYTHING.

 

[elindholm]

This just screams to me "i made an opinion on him already and am loathe to admit I was wrong".

I was wrong about the Mavericks' record, obviously -- I've only been scanning box scores this season, and I guess I saw the game that they lost.

But no, it's too soon to tell how wrong I am about Doncic. Obviously he's not a bust, so I'm wrong to some degree, but I still think the odds are heavily against him having a hall-of-fame career.

And suffice it to say that we have different memories of Paul Pierce.

 

[Chaplin]

he's just as good of an athlete as a Paul Pierce was, while having much better natural instincts and rebounding ability. Do you think it's just a fluke that in his first two years he's averaging 8.5 rebounds per game? You don't board that well if you're a below average athlete at 6'8.



WTF are you talking about? So far they're 3-1 this season while he's playing out of his mind and again, won 9 more games last season than they did the season before where he was the ONLY upgrade.



This just screams to me "i made an opinion on him already and am loathe to admit I was wrong".

...and the board is no longer copacetic.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I was wrong about the Mavericks' record, obviously -- I've only been scanning box scores this season, and I guess I saw the game that they lost.

But no, it's too soon to tell how wrong I am about Doncic. Obviously he's not a bust, so I'm wrong to some degree, but I still think the odds are heavily against him having a hall-of-fame career.[/QUOTE]

and there it is... can't admit you're wrong even tho you thought he'd be a bust and just digging yourself deeper by saying "you're wrong to some degree"? You thought he'd bust so you're just wrong PERIOD. But you've decided to do what us Americans do best and dig your heels in after... the odds are heavily against him having a HOF career?

Jesus. even though he's one of the best European players ever to play the game, then immediately came in and put up one of the best rookie seasons ever last year, made an actual impact in terms of wins and losses for an atrocious Mavs team and has only continued that ascent this season?

And suffice it to say that we have different memories of Paul Pierce.

well, you can't even remember what's going on this season, much less in the past so it doesn't surprised me that you've completely forgotten about Pierce's prime from the time he was 23-30, where he averaged 25 ppg, 6 rebounds and 4 assists per game, and the rest of his career where he made 10 all-star games, was an ALL-NBA'er 4 times as well and a shoe-in for the HOF.

 

[elindholm]

well, you can't even remember what's going on this season, much less in the past so it doesn't surprised me that you've completely forgotten about Pierce's prime from the time he was 23-30, where he averaged 25 ppg, 6 rebounds and 4 assists per game, and the rest of his career where he made 10 all-star games, was an ALL-NBA'er 4 times as well and a shoe-in for the HOF.

Uh, no, I remembered that part fine -- that was back when I followed the league pretty carefully. It's the part about him being less athletic than Doncic that doesn't ring a bell.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Uh, no, I remembered that part fine -- that was back when I followed the league pretty carefully. It's the part about him being less athletic than Doncic that doesn't ring a bell.

JFC... Eric, you can't even remember what I said THREE POSTS AGO. I never said he was less athletic than Doncic. Here's what you said and my response:

I just don't see it. He's a below-average athlete by NBA standards, especially among wings.

My response:
"he's just as good of an athlete as a Paul Pierce was, while having much better natural instincts and rebounding ability."

I mean, JESUS! This was posted a couple freaking minutes ago. but again, this is the lengths to which people go to avoid admitting they're wrong... they make up facts (or just don't bother to try and find the correct ones) and when proven wrong there, they resort to changing other people's arguments. All because they are LOATHE to admit they're wrong.

 

[elindholm]

I never said (Pierce) was less athletic than Doncic.

"he's just as good of an athlete as a Paul Pierce was, while having much better natural instincts and rebounding ability."

This is the nuance that has reduced you to shouting? Okay dude.

they make up facts (or just don't bother to try and find the correct ones) and when proven wrong there, they resort to changing other people's arguments.

You know who else hysterically accuses people of exactly the same logical sins that they are clearly guilty of themselves? I'll give you three guesses. Hint: It's a group of people you don't hold in high regard.

 

[Hoop Head]

Even if his numbers don’t increase exponentially over the years there are so many nuanced things that players learn that take them to higher and higher levels. To think a teenage star is even close to peaking is shortsighted or bias-driven imho.

I think it depends on how one believes he's "peaked". I think he's closer to peaking statistically than Ayton is but that doesn't mean I believe he won't get much better as time goes on. Right now he puts up big numbers that don't do a whole lot, similar to Booker's numbers throughout his career. Booker's numbers this year probably won't be as good as they were last but some of them like shooting percentage and turnovers will go down, he'll be much more efficient than previously seen and I think that is what Doncic needs to work on as well. At his age though it's amazing he puts up those numbers so no one is going to complain about them but in a couple of years he'll be where Booker is now, expected to produce more impactfully than he has.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is the nuance that has reduced you to shouting? Okay dude.

lol... you STILL won't admit you're wrong even when the words are staring you right in the face? Yes... when you tell me I said Pierce was less athletic than Doncic even tho I clearly said they were equal athletes, there is a CLEAR difference between the two.

But I'm done here... you've already posted facts that have been proven factually wrong, then once shown those, completely projected an argument on to me that I never made and once i showed proof of that, you just start gas lighting.

congrats on once again proving my point the lengths to which people will go to because they absolutely loathe admitting they're wrong.

You know who else hysterically accuses people of exactly the same logical sins that they are clearly guilty of themselves? I'll give you three guesses. Hint: It's a group of people you don't hold in high regard.

the irony is that you don't see that you are acting just like them.

it really won't kill you to just admit you were wrong about something. I did it and didn't melt into a puddle.