Defense?

[jagu]

Weren't we supposed to get better on defense with this trade? Wonder what happened lol. Hopefully the defense gets there in time before the time runs out on us. I like the new acquisitions, and tonight Gortat played well. He could have used another big because Philly did a nice job of boxing him away from rebounds and also forcing him to switch off his man which forced a lot of rebounding problems. Pietrus had a rough game, a few very poor foul calls on him did him in but the guy shoots with confidence and his stroke seems pure.

Carter , I was impressed but I need to see more and I hope his knee holds up.

 

[95pro]

the suns seem to switch almost everytime on defense, which is why gortat ended up on someone else. also, i think that confuses warrick as well. warrick just doesnt have it on the defensive end, which is why he loses his man constantly.

 

[Folster]

I think we share some of the blame as fans. Nobody ever brings the letter D and a cut out of a fence to the game like they do at football games. Maybe if we brought those, we'd improve defensively. Actually, it would be hilarious if we could get a couple hundred fans to bring those to the next home game.

 

[slinslin]

How do you figure Gortat has been playing well? He put up decent stats the last 2 games and horrible stats the first game.

That being said his +/- was by far the worst on the team in both games. He had no impact espcially not defensively. If anything the team is playing worse defense when he is in.

 

[jagu]

+/- is misleading , he played with Goran and as soon as he comes in the entire offense goes into a lull and of course they'll be outscored then. He showed really good skills last night playing with Nash.

 

[mojorizen7]

I've never bought into plus/minus stats either. Too many variables.
Just have some basketball knowledge and watch the games....and rewatch them.

 

[desertdawg]

This is the main thang.

 

[sunsfan88]

Gortat played extremely well. He had 2 blocks and 6 boards...I think the 76ers only missed 6 times.

jk

But here's a quote that Gortat said

"Now I know why despite having such athleticism, Amare was never a great rebounder...there aren't any misses to rebound!"

 

[Griffin]

In reality the current Suns aren't that much worse defensively than in the last five years or so. Statistically they are worse, but a large part of it is due to less efficient and much less potent offense. In the past, the Suns could get away with bad defense more because offensively they could not only outscore most opponents but also flat out demoralize them. Those past Suns teams would score at will, on misses and makes, score quick, inside and out, to the point that opponents often couldn't get into a good rhythm offensively. The Suns had an answer for every hoop, for every run, and could erase a double-digit deficit in a few possessions.

This is no longer the case. The Suns can still put up points, but not the same kind of points, and not in the same manner. Obviously the biggest reason for that is a lack of dominant inside scorer that we had in Amare. Amare might have not done much on the defensive end, but the offensive punch that he and Nash provided together was enough to offset some of the team's defensive shortcomings.

The current Suns squad needs to realize that they can no longer beat anyone just by outscoring them. The 76ers game could have easily been a win in previous seasons even when the Suns gave up 120, because the 76ers played poor defense as well and the old Suns would have scored 130. In the past, defense was what the Suns needed to be a title contender. Now, it's what they absolutely must have just to prevent being a sub-.500 team. The team also needs to realize that it is not enough to talk about defense, and not enough to practice it. I remember how D'Antoni was blamed by many here for lack of defensive emphasis. Now we have all the emphasis in the world and still no results. The players must learn to execute what they practice. They are already learning that they cannot win games otherwise.

 

[Gwindor]

I'd like to notice, that Pietrus, Gortat and Carter played well when switching each other player in man to man D... Maybe this 3 guys can bring to PHX some kind of manner during the practise and finally we'll be able to see this in court? I hope so, becouse i cannot stand how poor D was responding against simple switches without even classic P&R...

 

[devilalum]

I'd like to notice, that Pietrus, Gortat and Carter played well when switching each other player in man to man D... Maybe this 3 guys can bring to PHX some kind of manner during the practise and finally we'll be able to see this in court? I hope so, becouse i cannot stand how poor D was responding against simple switches without even classic P&R...

Orlando was on a 4 game losing streak before they jettisoned these 3 guys.

Just sayin

 

[elindholm]

In reality the current Suns aren't that much worse defensively than in the last five years or so.

That just isn't true. Their FG% allowed and defensive rebounding percentage are both much worse. They used to be in the middle of the pack for FG% allowed -- often slightly better than average, believe it or not -- and now they are dead last. Defensive rebounding has always been a problem, but that is definitely worse now as well.

If someone has access to Points (allowed) Per Possession stats, I imagine you'll find a dramatic difference between this season and the last several. Last night the Suns got fewer than 8 stops per quarter. That's just insane.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

"I came from a team where everybody's competing and trying, doing the stuff that Coach is saying. We just totally are changing our rotations. We're not playing hard enough. I've just got to tell you, there's a lot of work in front of us. The positive thing is it can't be worse."

"I think we have to be at the gym every day for three hours and learn the rotations and everything from the beginning. There are so many things that we are doing bad. I just can't find the explanation. I'm trying to get some rebounds and stops but unfortunately there are not too many opportunities for me to rebound. Because the team is scoring 120-something points, there is not much to rebound. It's just frustrating, frustrating as hell. I'm not going to lie. Now is a reality check for me, being on a team that is winning and now being on a team that is losing and we're the worst defensive team in the league. We've got to come tomorrow as early as possible and put in work, three hours at least."

"We've got to be more serious about everything we do. We've got a lot of young guys on the team and a lot of potential but a lot of young guys who don't know how it is to be on top and play on a high level. It's not just a focus on the game. It's also focus on the practice. When you're passing that door up front over there in the parking, it's a time when you're locking in and getting ready for the game or practice. It can't happen when we're coming in and doing different things. We've got to read the scouting report. We've got to read which guy likes to do what and we've just got to learn it. There's a lot of work. If Philly is scoring 120 points, I don't want to see teams like Boston, Orlando, San Antonio, Miami or the other teams because it's going to be bad."

That was Gortat after the game. I don't disagree about anything with regards to practice and better defense......

But does someone want to tell him his current team went to the WCF last year same as his former Orlando team? Its not like the core of this team isn't used to success.

He's acting like he got traded from the Lakers to the Clippers....

Just Sayin....

 

[elindholm]

Gortat's English sure has gotten a lot better in a hurry. Maybe the Suns have an excellent ESL staff?

I suspect those quotes are either highly embellished or not by Gortat at all.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Gortat's English sure has gotten a lot better in a hurry. Maybe the Suns have an excellent ESL staff?

I suspect those quotes are either highly embellished or not by Gortat at all.

I'd be surprised if they were, it sounds like pretty much all of the rest of the stuff he's been saying. (Of course it all may be, but it's spot on, and I'm glad someone is so frank about it)

 

[AfroSuns]

Now is a reality check for me, being on a team that is winning and now being on a team that is losing and we're the worst defensive team in the league.

oh man, it says a lot about this team, when a bench player who is less than a week on your roster makes that kinda comment

 

[Griffin]

That just isn't true. Their FG% allowed and defensive rebounding percentage are both much worse. They used to be in the middle of the pack for FG% allowed -- often slightly better than average, believe it or not -- and now they are dead last.

I did acknowledge that they are statistically worse defensively, which you confirmed. However, as I explained, I believe that one of the main underlying reasons for this regression is actually on the other end. The Suns don't score like they used to, allowing opposing defenses to feel good about themselves, which translates to an increase in confidence on the offensive end. And confidence is everything. Teams also get to run more against us, punishing us in transition when we take a bad shot or turn the ball over. It's not that we are doing something fundamentally different defensively, it's that the teams we are facing, even the bad ones, are more confident that they can outplay us and outshoot us.

 

[elindholm]

I did acknowledge that they are statistically worse defensively, which you confirmed.

I thought you meant by "easy" measures like points per game, and you were implying that such measures are misleading (which they are).

The Suns don't score like they used to, allowing opposing defenses to feel good about themselves, which translates to an increase in confidence on the offensive end. And confidence is everything.

I doubt that what you're describing can make that much difference, but I agree that there's no way to know for sure.

Teams also get to run more against us, punishing us in transition when we take a bad shot or turn the ball over.

But the Suns are still near the top of the league offensively and in the middle of the pack for turnovers, so I don't think that the opponent has any more opportunities to run than usual.

That said, I suppose you could argue that, since the Suns are also, now, even worse at offensive rebounding than they've ever been, it's easier for opposing teams to send more players on the break.

Anecdotally, though, I feel like it is more common this season that I'm disgusted with the Suns' half-court defense. In recent years, I remember thinking, "Their first-shot defense really isn't that bad; it's just that they can't rebound."

 

[JS22]

Gortat played extremely well. He had 2 blocks and 6 boards...I think the 76ers only missed 6 times.

jk

But here's a quote that Gortat said

"Now I know why despite having such athleticism, Amare was never a great rebounder...there aren't any misses to rebound!"

LOL. I already really like Gortat. Give him about 10 more games and he'll master the P&R with Nash. If the Suns could stop anyone I wouldn't be shocked to see him average 14/10/2 on a nightly basis.

 

[TucsonDevil]

I think we share some of the blame as fans. Nobody ever brings the letter D and a cut out of a fence to the game like they do at football games. Maybe if we brought those, we'd improve defensively. Actually, it would be hilarious if we could get a couple hundred fans to bring those to the next home game.

+ 1,000,000

This would make SportsCenter on a repeating loop. We have got to make it happen, just for the irony...

 

[Covert Rain]

Orlando was on a 4 game losing streak before they jettisoned these 3 guys.

Just sayin

It had nothing to do with defense though. Orlando couldn't score. They were struggling to put points on the board. That's why they wanted JRich...bad. Throw in that they think they could get the old TURK back and it was worth the gamble for them.

Our defensive philosophy on this team sucks. I mean how many guys have come here and talked about our defensive system being "different". I can't remember who just said it last but that seems to be the M.O. I know you have to have the horses but it seems like no matter who the Suns plug in....we see the exact same thing.

That says system to me. If you look at the #'s even before the trade, Gortat, Pietrus and Carter had good defensive #'s when looking at the defensive PER. Let's see how that holds up here. If it goes significantly south.....I think it's time for a coaching change..........AGAIN.

We can't keep this up. If this is our team then why keep Nash? Why keep some of these mid tear free agents that we just locked up? This team has to turn things around in a hurry or we are witnessing the beginning of the end for the Nash era IMO.

 

[mojorizen7]

Gortat the Marlboro Red is already being morphed into a menthol cigarette due to this shitbox system.
He's resisting,but its only a matter of time.
He's just speaking the truth.

Seriously,WTF is it gonna take for this FO to just light the fuse and realize that 2004-2008 is history?

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[BC867]

We can't keep this up. If this is our team then why keep Nash? Why keep some of these mid tear free agents that we just locked up? This team has to turn things around in a hurry or we are witnessing the beginning of the end for the Nash era IMO.

If the Suns were going to move Nash, it certainly wouldn't happen before the All Star game. He will be our lone representative in the game.

 

[jagu]

We have more wings than Wild Wild Wings. How about moving some of these for some pieces that actually fit rather than being 4 deep at the SF position lol.

 

[mojorizen7]

We have more wings than Wild Wild Wings. How about moving some of these for some pieces that actually fit rather than being 4 deep at the SF position lol.

Pieces that fit into what Jagu?