Derek Brown

[AZCrazy]

"The top tier of this draft in order:
Young
Okudah
Simmons

The next tier in order:
Wills
Lamb
Jeudy

The next tier in no particular order
Ruggs
Wirfs
Thomas
Kinlaw

After that..... the Risk for each player goes up"


Sir, everything you just said is exactly correct. You can lead the dig anytime.

 

[TheCardFan]

Watch the two plays at 3:30. They run right at Brown in the red zone and Wills puts him on the ground both times. 2nd one for a TD.

For those who think Any Isabella's 80 yard run was fast...watch Waddle do basically the same thing at 4:43 and run away from everyone.

 

[Chopper0080]

If QW wasn’t that guy at the NFL level.... what makes you think DB is??

makes no sense.

Because I liked Derrick Brown more than Q Williams last year...

 

[TheCardFan]

Because I liked Derrick Brown more than Q Williams last year...

Quinnen Williams is a really good player who will only be better when he is able to play a NFL game that has less snaps to manage.

I like him and Bosa equally at #1. I really don't care which one they go with.

So, you like Derek Brown more than Bosa?

 

[Ohcrap75]

"The top tier of this draft in order:
Young
Okudah
Simmons

The next tier in order:
Wills
Lamb
Jeudy

The next tier in no particular order
Ruggs
Wirfs
Thomas
Kinlaw

After that..... the Risk for each player goes up"


Sir, everything you just said is exactly correct. You can lead the dig anytime.

This is pretty much how I would have it. I would flip Ruggs and Lamb, but that’s just nitpicking. One of the top three make it to eight, we better not pass!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This is pretty much how I would have it. I would flip Ruggs and Lamb, but that’s just nitpicking. One of the top three make it to eight, we better not pass!

You need to read the Hmmm thread about why Ruggs is a massive mistake even in the first round

 

[Ohcrap75]

You need to read the Hmmm thread about why Ruggs is a massive mistake even in the first round

You need to read the thread too apparently. I have multiple posts in it. WTF?!!

 

[Ohcrap75]

You need to read the Hmmm thread about why Ruggs is a massive mistake even in the first round

Isn’t there a reason for multiple threads? Didn’t know Ruggs can only be talked about it one and why you feel the need to tell me my OPINION is wrong is AAF!!

 

[Harry]

Has there been a player that has performed historically bad at the combine and been a solid pro, never mind a top ten pick?

Dozens

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1970024-10-nfl-stars-who-overcame-terrible-combine-performances


https://www.bannersociety.com/2018/3/5/20707154/worst-nfl-combine-performances

 

[Finito]

Dozens

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1970024-10-nfl-stars-who-overcame-terrible-combine-performances


https://www.bannersociety.com/2018/3/5/20707154/worst-nfl-combine-performances

pretty impressive list

 

[TheCardFan]

Outside of Calais...not a very inspiring list at DT that overcame a bad combine in the history of the NFL?

Defensive linemen
Domata Peko, 2006
Calais Campbell, 2008
Wallace Gilberry, 2008
Pernell McPhee, 2011

Calais also had better college production:

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You need to read the thread too apparently. I have multiple posts in it. WTF?!!

I was just not wanting to repeat the point sorry.

 

[Finito]

Outside of Calais...not a very inspiring list at DT that overcame a bad combine in the history of the NFL?

Defensive linemen
Domata Peko, 2006
Calais Campbell, 2008
Wallace Gilberry, 2008
Pernell McPhee, 2011

Calais also had better college production:

You must be registered for see images attach

Ok you don’t like Brown

 

[WildBB]

I wouldn’t be upset with Brown or Kinlaw. Although, I think I slightly prefer Kinlaw. Brown got to play with another topflight defensive lineman in Marlon Davidson.

I like Davidson but he and Kinlaw don't fit as well as Brown will. Plus Brown can move around to NT if need be on 3rd downs and really keep Peter's fresher at this point in his career. Brown was the one who always drew double teams at Auburn also.

 

[TheCardFan]

Ok you don’t like Brown

[URL="https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/posts/4187710/"]Derek Brown[/URL]

 

[Chopper0080]

So, you like Derek Brown more than Bosa?

Yes. Though I think edge rusher is a more valuable position.

 

[TheCardFan]

Does anyone have a PFF membership that is willing to post more of this article?

PREMIUM CONTENT Sign Up
Projecting Auburn DI Derrick Brown's impact as an NFL player

You must be registered for see images attach

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-projecting-auburn-di-derrick-browns-impact-nfl-player

 

[TheCardFan]

Another person's post from internet...very detailed (pre-combine). I dropped in his combine numbers for comparison.

Posted by Jaguars
u/TheSlinger

A Case Against Derrick Brown in the Top 10

You must be registered for see images

This post is largely motivated by him being commonly mocked to the Jaguars and me detesting that pick.

Recent history (I looked at last ten years) shows that Derrick Brown, as a 320 pound senior defensive tackle who is primarily a run-stuffer with middling pass rush production, is not the type of player to be drafted in the top ten.

I would go so far as to say he's almost a draft cliche - the strong run defender who people push up boards saying "oh but he's good against the pass too!" But they're not. At least not to the caliber necessary to be considered in the top ten. And so these players fall out of the top ten or the first round entirely, and even then it usually turned out that they were overdrafted.

Players I put in this category include, but are not limited to, Dan Williams, Johnathan Hankins, Star Lotulelei, Danny Shelton, and Vita Vea. All of these players were at one point hyped as top ten, and in some cases top 5 players, and went lower than expected. I would argue that in most, if not all cases, they were still overdrafted. In particular with Brown I think since he played at Auburn he had the opportunity to make a couple of splash plays in big situations that have made people believe Brown is some dominant pass rusher that he is not.

While people have started to argue that interior defensive line is now a premium position based on how much interior pressure affects QBs, teams have not drafted that way. In the last ten years, the only players I would classify as interior defensive linemen drafted in the top ten have been:

• Ndamukong Suh
  
• Gerald McCoy
  
• Tyson Alualu
  
• Marcell Dareus
  
• Leonard Williams
  
• Quinnen Williams
  
• Ed Oliver

Solomon Thomas and DeForest Buckner have also been drafted in the top ten and may be classified as interior defensive linemen depending on your definition; however it's easy to say that they are very different players from Brown based on role, measurables, and production so you'll excuse me if I exclude them.

So here's Derrick Brown at a glance:

• Senior
  
• Listed 6'4" 318, estimated 5.06 40 time
  
• 3 sacks and 9 TFL in 2017. 4.5 sacks and 10.5 TFL in 2018. 4.0 sacks and 11.5 TFL in 2019

Let's compare him to the above seven players one-by-one. Yes this is superficial. Yes this is largely based on combine times and box score scouting. If you have a strong argument as to why Brown is, in fact, comparable to these players I'm happy to hear it.

Ndamukong Suh

• Drafted as a senior
  
• 6'4" 307, 4.98 40, 4.44 SS, 7.21 3-cone, 35.5 vert, 8'9" broad
  
• 7.5 sacks and 16 TFL in 2008. 12.0 sacks and 20.5 TFL in 2009.
  
• Suh had one of the best college seasons by a college defender ever. In the conversation for best DT prospect ever. I don't think anybody would argue Brown is in his league. Very different in both style and caliber. Next.

Gerald McCoy

• Drafted as a junior
  
• 6'4" 295, 4.99 40, 4.48 ss 7.32 3-cone, 30.5" vert, 9'6" broad
  
• 6.5 sacks, 11 TFL in 2008. 6.0 sacks 15.5 TFL in 2009.
  
• Similar to Suh in caliber and style. While Brown may get in their ballpark in the 40 I can't imagine him approaching their overall athleticism. Both were true explosive 3-tech interior pass rushers that Brown is not.

Tyson Alualu

• Drafted as a senior

• 6'2" 295 4.87 40 4.43 SS 7.15 3-cone 35.5" vert 9'8" broad

• 6.0 sacks, 11 TFL in 2008. 7.5 sacks, 11.5 TFL in 2009
  
• Athletically he was actually a marvel and slightly outproduced Derrick Brown. Also he played in a true 3-man front where he didn't get the opportunities to rush the passer that Brown has. More importantly Alualu is considered one of the great draft reaches who was expected AT BEST to sneak into the late 1st and while he's carved out a career as quality depth, he's never come close to living up to this draft position

Marcell Dareus

• Drafted as a junior
  
• 6'3" 319, 4.93 40, 4.62 S, 7.83 3-cone, 27" vert, 8'10" broad jump
  
• 6.5 sacks, 9.0 TFL in 2009. 4.5 sacks 11.0 TFL in 2010
  
• If you're a Brown fan, Dareus is the comparison you would point to. He has some similarities both in terms of physical attributes and production. I don't see Brown breaking sub-5 in the 40, though the other numbers are achievable. Production-wise it's important to note that unlike Brown, Dareus also played in a true 3-man front where his primary role was to eat up blockers, not rush the passer. Also he was a junior; if he was given a senior season to develop like Brown he may have far surpassed him.

Leonard Williams

• Drafted as a junior
  
• 6'5" 302, 4.97 40, 4.53 SS, 7.5 3-cone, 29.5 vert, 8'10" broad
  
• 8.0 sacks, 13.5 TFL in 2012. 5.0 sacks, 12.5 TFL in 2013. 7.0 sacks, 9.5 TFL in 2014
  
• Another different style player who is longer, leaner, and likely more athletic than Brown will be. While he was criticized for not having terrific production he managed 35.5 TFL and 20 sacks in his FR-SO-JR seasons compared to Brown's 11.5 sacks and 30.5 TFL in his SO-JR-SR seasons. He's also been considered a disappointment as his pass rush production in the NFL has not matched the expectations for a top ten pick.

Quinnen Williams

• Drafted as a RS Sophomore
  
• 6'3", 303, 4.83 40, 30.5" vert, 9'4" broad
  
• 8.0 sacks, 19.5 TFL in 2018
  
• While somewhat of a one-year wonder, he far outstrips Brown in athleticism and production in that year while having less experience. Much different player

Ed Oliver

• Drafted as a junior
  
• 6'2" 287, 36" vert, 10' broad (no 40)
  
• 5.0 sacks, 22 TFL in 2016. 5.5 sacks, 16.5 TFL in 2017. 3.0 sacks, 14.5 TFL in 2018
  
• While his sack production was marginal, his TFL production was absurd. He's another smaller, quicker, more explosive type DT which Brown is not. He was also in a situation where he was the only notable defensive lineman and received an absurd amount of attention from defenses.

So there are the seven. All but two were underclassmen. None who ran the 40 were above 5.00. All except Dareus were more productive, some by a large amount, in either TFL, sacks, or both. While I can find numerous players similar to Brown who were highly touted but dropped out of the top ten or first round, I do not see a strong comparison to any players in the top ten. It is hard for a true interior defensive lineman to be drafted top ten. To be drafted in the top ten a defensive lineman has to be outstanding in either physical ability or production so that they can be projected to be a true dominant interior pass rusher. I believe that Brown lacks both.

 

[Syracusecards]

NFL Network Path to the Draft doing a segment on DB next

 

[Proximo]

Another person's post from internet...very detailed (pre-combine). I dropped in his combine numbers for comparison.

Posted by Jaguars
u/TheSlinger

A Case Against Derrick Brown in the Top 10

You must be registered for see images

This post is largely motivated by him being commonly mocked to the Jaguars and me detesting that pick.

Recent history (I looked at last ten years) shows that Derrick Brown, as a 320 pound senior defensive tackle who is primarily a run-stuffer with middling pass rush production, is not the type of player to be drafted in the top ten.

I would go so far as to say he's almost a draft cliche - the strong run defender who people push up boards saying "oh but he's good against the pass too!" But they're not. At least not to the caliber necessary to be considered in the top ten. And so these players fall out of the top ten or the first round entirely, and even then it usually turned out that they were overdrafted.

Players I put in this category include, but are not limited to, Dan Williams, Johnathan Hankins, Star Lotulelei, Danny Shelton, and Vita Vea. All of these players were at one point hyped as top ten, and in some cases top 5 players, and went lower than expected. I would argue that in most, if not all cases, they were still overdrafted. In particular with Brown I think since he played at Auburn he had the opportunity to make a couple of splash plays in big situations that have made people believe Brown is some dominant pass rusher that he is not.

While people have started to argue that interior defensive line is now a premium position based on how much interior pressure affects QBs, teams have not drafted that way. In the last ten years, the only players I would classify as interior defensive linemen drafted in the top ten have been:

• Ndamukong Suh
• Gerald McCoy
• Tyson Alualu
• Marcell Dareus
• Leonard Williams
• Quinnen Williams
• Ed Oliver

Solomon Thomas and DeForest Buckner have also been drafted in the top ten and may be classified as interior defensive linemen depending on your definition; however it's easy to say that they are very different players from Brown based on role, measurables, and production so you'll excuse me if I exclude them.

So here's Derrick Brown at a glance:

• Senior
• Listed 6'4" 318, estimated 5.06 40 time
• 3 sacks and 9 TFL in 2017. 4.5 sacks and 10.5 TFL in 2018. 4.0 sacks and 11.5 TFL in 2019

Let's compare him to the above seven players one-by-one. Yes this is superficial. Yes this is largely based on combine times and box score scouting. If you have a strong argument as to why Brown is, in fact, comparable to these players I'm happy to hear it.

Ndamukong Suh

• Drafted as a senior
• 6'4" 307, 4.98 40, 4.44 SS, 7.21 3-cone, 35.5 vert, 8'9" broad
• 7.5 sacks and 16 TFL in 2008. 12.0 sacks and 20.5 TFL in 2009.
• Suh had one of the best college seasons by a college defender ever. In the conversation for best DT prospect ever. I don't think anybody would argue Brown is in his league. Very different in both style and caliber. Next.

Gerald McCoy

• Drafted as a junior
• 6'4" 295, 4.99 40, 4.48 ss 7.32 3-cone, 30.5" vert, 9'6" broad
• 6.5 sacks, 11 TFL in 2008. 6.0 sacks 15.5 TFL in 2009.
• Similar to Suh in caliber and style. While Brown may get in their ballpark in the 40 I can't imagine him approaching their overall athleticism. Both were true explosive 3-tech interior pass rushers that Brown is not.

Tyson Alualu

• Drafted as a senior

• 6'2" 295 4.87 40 4.43 SS 7.15 3-cone 35.5" vert 9'8" broad

• 6.0 sacks, 11 TFL in 2008. 7.5 sacks, 11.5 TFL in 2009
• Athletically he was actually a marvel and slightly outproduced Derrick Brown. Also he played in a true 3-man front where he didn't get the opportunities to rush the passer that Brown has. More importantly Alualu is considered one of the great draft reaches who was expected AT BEST to sneak into the late 1st and while he's carved out a career as quality depth, he's never come close to living up to this draft position

Marcell Dareus

• Drafted as a junior
• 6'3" 319, 4.93 40, 4.62 S, 7.83 3-cone, 27" vert, 8'10" broad jump
• 6.5 sacks, 9.0 TFL in 2009. 4.5 sacks 11.0 TFL in 2010
• If you're a Brown fan, Dareus is the comparison you would point to. He has some similarities both in terms of physical attributes and production. I don't see Brown breaking sub-5 in the 40, though the other numbers are achievable. Production-wise it's important to note that unlike Brown, Dareus also played in a true 3-man front where his primary role was to eat up blockers, not rush the passer. Also he was a junior; if he was given a senior season to develop like Brown he may have far surpassed him.

Leonard Williams

• Drafted as a junior
• 6'5" 302, 4.97 40, 4.53 SS, 7.5 3-cone, 29.5 vert, 8'10" broad
• 8.0 sacks, 13.5 TFL in 2012. 5.0 sacks, 12.5 TFL in 2013. 7.0 sacks, 9.5 TFL in 2014
• Another different style player who is longer, leaner, and likely more athletic than Brown will be. While he was criticized for not having terrific production he managed 35.5 TFL and 20 sacks in his FR-SO-JR seasons compared to Brown's 11.5 sacks and 30.5 TFL in his SO-JR-SR seasons. He's also been considered a disappointment as his pass rush production in the NFL has not matched the expectations for a top ten pick.

Quinnen Williams

• Drafted as a RS Sophomore
• 6'3", 303, 4.83 40, 30.5" vert, 9'4" broad
• 8.0 sacks, 19.5 TFL in 2018
• While somewhat of a one-year wonder, he far outstrips Brown in athleticism and production in that year while having less experience. Much different player

Ed Oliver

• Drafted as a junior
• 6'2" 287, 36" vert, 10' broad (no 40)
• 5.0 sacks, 22 TFL in 2016. 5.5 sacks, 16.5 TFL in 2017. 3.0 sacks, 14.5 TFL in 2018
• While his sack production was marginal, his TFL production was absurd. He's another smaller, quicker, more explosive type DT which Brown is not. He was also in a situation where he was the only notable defensive lineman and received an absurd amount of attention from defenses.

So there are the seven. All but two were underclassmen. None who ran the 40 were above 5.00. All except Dareus were more productive, some by a large amount, in either TFL, sacks, or both. While I can find numerous players similar to Brown who were highly touted but dropped out of the top ten or first round, I do not see a strong comparison to any players in the top ten. It is hard for a true interior defensive lineman to be drafted top ten. To be drafted in the top ten a defensive lineman has to be outstanding in either physical ability or production so that they can be projected to be a true dominant interior pass rusher. I believe that Brown lacks both.

This is eye opening. He is an even worse prospect than I thought when you compare him to these other guys. I do not understand the hype he is getting at all.

He is terrible athletically, and his production sucks. I do not understand why anybody ranks him highly.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Meh i like Derrick brown as a player and his highlights are promising just cards haven't had the best luck drafting dline... if they take him ill be on board hope for best

Im personally hoping for lamb simmons wills

 

[cardsfanmd]

Nobody is writing them off but Q was as close to a sure thing DT as we have seen in a long time. He didn't have the type of impact anyone expected as a rookie.

If fact, who was the last DT taken in the top 10 that made an impact? Hint - it's been a very long time and there have been a lot of DT's taken.

History is not on Brown's side.

Sorry but everything about this post is incorrect lol.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

This is eye opening. He is an even worse prospect than I thought when you compare him to these other guys. I do not understand the hype he is getting at all.

He is terrible athletically, and his production sucks. I do not understand why anybody ranks him highly.

Brown’s production is outstanding considering he was double and sometimes triple teamed. He is a great player and has been every year he has played at Auburn.

 

[slanidrac16]

Jeremiah ranks Brown above Quinnan Williams from last year.

 

[football karma]

the one quality that will work to Brown's benefit vs nearly every other interior DT drafted in the last several years is the Brown plays hard from kickoff to final whistle -- every play

it probably gets him production in excess of more athletically gifted players. I also think its an attribute that will translate to the NFL.