Derek Brown

[Mainstreet]

I watched a lot of video where teams simply ran away from Brown. He can certainly anchor the defensive line and he is a road grader but his athleticism is not exceptional. I can't help but wonder if some of his effectiveness will be matched on the next level. That said, he would really help the Cardinals defense and would provide an immediate impact. Also he is unlikely to bust.

 

[SoonerLou]

My prepared reaction when we draft Brown over OL.

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[Finito]

I watched a lot of video where teams simply ran away from Brown. He can certainly anchor the defensive like and he is a road grader but his athleticism is not exceptional. I can't help but wonder if some of his effectiveness will be matched on the next level. That said, he would really help the Cardinals defense and would provide an immediate impact. Also he is unlikely to bust.

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maybe the single most athletic play I’ve ever seen from a DT. To be that big change direction that fast and have enough speed to chase down a RB 20 yards downfield is scary.

running away from a DT is the same as throwing away from a top CB. That’s a good thing. They realize there’s going to be nothing there on his side

 

[Finito]

My prepared reaction when we draft Brown over OL.

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i rank the top 4 defensive prospects all above the top 4 offensive lineman however any of them except Becton I’m perfectly fine with

 

[Mainstreet]

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maybe the single most athletic play I’ve ever seen from a DT. To be that big change direction that fast and have enough speed to chase down a RB 20 yards downfield is scary.

running away from a DT is the same as throwing away from a top CB. That’s a good thing. They realize there’s going to be nothing there on his side

I'm not down on Brown. I agree with the part in bold.

Brown should be a solid career defensive lineman if that's what the Cardinals want at #8 or if he is there in a trade down. He is very unlikely to bust.

 

[TheCardFan]

I am not down on Brown specifically either. I think he is Dexter Lawrence...strong run defender but pass rush/penetration will be significantly neutralized in the NFL when he is going up against grown ass men vs 20/21 year old kids. That and DT's like him don't make impacts in the NFL. I don't think its worth a top 10 pick.

 

[daves]

I always remember Deacon Jones talking about the combine and him saying that back in the day still holds true today that there is no bench in the middle of the fifty, cones, and there is not forty yards to the QB.

This raises an interesting issue, something i've wondered about for a while: Why the heck to they put all the players through the same drills, including the 40 yard dash? Shouldn't they have drills for D-linemen that measure their reaction time and maybe 20-yard dash time? Etc.

...dave

 

[Jetstream Green]

This raises an interesting issue, something i've wondered about for a while: Why the heck to they put all the players through the same drills, including the 40 yard dash? Shouldn't they have drills for D-linemen that measure their reaction time and maybe 20-yard dash time? Etc.

...dave

I don't know but I am sure they can take increments of certain drills and apply them just as well, such as noticing the take off speed etc... they are base drills so one can manipulate them accordingly towards different aspects

 

[GatorAZ]

I liked our defensive additions and think they take us from awful to below average but inserting a 315 attention magnet makes everyone in the front-7 better... Phillips along with Brown, Jones and Kennard is a lot closer to Phillips, Lotulelei, Hughes and Oliver than we’d be just rotating him with Peters and Allen.

 

[TheCardFan]

Relative Athletic Score: Projecting Derrick Brown’s value in the NFL
When evaluating Auburn DT Derrick Brown, how will NFL teams reconcile his poor measurables with the outstanding play he's put on film over the past few years?

Derrick Brown - 8.22 cone drill
No defensive tackle who posted an 8.00 or greater cone time has ever had a season where they recorded 7.5 sacks. There have only been three Pro Bowl defensive tackles since 1987 who recorded a cone time greater than 8.00, so I started there to find a fairer comparison for Brown. The first was Pat Williams. But while Pat played at a similarly large size, he wasn’t as big during the draft season. The second, another nose tackle, was Linval Joseph. (my note: The third was Marcus Stroud. Both Joseph and Stroud did better than Brown though 8.07 and 8.12)

There are many different parts to the puzzle
All of this is only to look at athletic comparables for Brown, of course. Prior to Stroud and Williams, there were no defensive tackles who had made a Pro Bowl with that single, odious distinction of a terrible cone time.

Defensive tackles who become premier pass rushers with poorer metrics aren’t unheard of, which is why fans of Brown are quick to point out those players who’ve made it despite the numbers. It is, however, rare, which is ammunition for critics or the more risk-averse.

In the end, it would be foolish to discount Brown’s tape due to poor measurables, even if they’re very poor (and only one part). It would also be foolish to discount several failed attempts at ignoring the numbers made in the past and the value associated with taking a player who potentially could be one dimensional high in the draft.

Previous picks such as Malcolm Brown and Danny Shelton yielded good players, but they likely didn’t show the value of the draft capital used to acquire them. And when it comes down to it, that is ultimately the question with Derrick Brown. It’s not only if you believe he can develop into an impact player in the NFL, but what you’re willing to wager that he will.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/derrick-brown-2020-nfl-draft-prospect-relative-athletic-score/

 

[WisconsinCard]

That puts things into perspective for sure. It kind of sums what I was trying to say. Love his game film but is it a risk worth taking? I still believe there are safer picks to be had at #8

 

[Krangodnzr]

Relative Athletic Score: Projecting Derrick Brown’s value in the NFL
When evaluating Auburn DT Derrick Brown, how will NFL teams reconcile his poor measurables with the outstanding play he's put on film over the past few years?

Derrick Brown - 8.22 cone drill
No defensive tackle who posted an 8.00 or greater cone time has ever had a season where they recorded 7.5 sacks. There have only been three Pro Bowl defensive tackles since 1987 who recorded a cone time greater than 8.00, so I started there to find a fairer comparison for Brown. The first was Pat Williams. But while Pat played at a similarly large size, he wasn’t as big during the draft season. The second, another nose tackle, was Linval Joseph. (my note: The third was Marcus Stroud. Both Joseph and Stroud did better than Brown though 8.07 and 8.12)

There are many different parts to the puzzle
All of this is only to look at athletic comparables for Brown, of course. Prior to Stroud and Williams, there were no defensive tackles who had made a Pro Bowl with that single, odious distinction of a terrible cone time.

Defensive tackles who become premier pass rushers with poorer metrics aren’t unheard of, which is why fans of Brown are quick to point out those players who’ve made it despite the numbers. It is, however, rare, which is ammunition for critics or the more risk-averse.

In the end, it would be foolish to discount Brown’s tape due to poor measurables, even if they’re very poor (and only one part). It would also be foolish to discount several failed attempts at ignoring the numbers made in the past and the value associated with taking a player who potentially could be one dimensional high in the draft.

Previous picks such as Malcolm Brown and Danny Shelton yielded good players, but they likely didn’t show the value of the draft capital used to acquire them. And when it comes down to it, that is ultimately the question with Derrick Brown. It’s not only if you believe he can develop into an impact player in the NFL, but what you’re willing to wager that he will.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/derrick-brown-2020-nfl-draft-prospect-relative-athletic-score/

This is why I wouldnt touch Brown with a 30 foot pole in round 1.

It's extremely rare that a DL that is as poor an athlete as Brown becomes an elite player. I'm not gambling on him in round one, where there are about a dozen players you could take at 8 or in a trade down that have a higher chance of succeeding.

 

[juza76]

This is why I wouldnt touch Brown with a 30 foot pole in round 1.

It's extremely rare that a DL that is as poor an athlete as Brown becomes an elite player. I'm not gambling on him in round one, where there are about a dozen players you could take at 8 or in a trade down that have a higher chance of succeeding.

Agree, I see a higher ceiling on kinlaw at the next level
He looks with more burst and distruptive

 

[AZCrazy]

Stop putting so much value on the stupid combine. This guy is highly athletic and highly disruptive.

Here's another opinion, which comes from someone with actual NFL experience:

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2020/3...raft-2020-dt-film-breakdown-highlights-auburn

 

[Krangodnzr]

Stop putting so much value on the stupid combine. This guy is highly athletic and highly disruptive.

Here's another opinion, which comes from someone with actual NFL experience:

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2020/3...raft-2020-dt-film-breakdown-highlights-auburn

Athletic metrics arent the only qualifier here.

Derek Brown tested at the bottom FIVE PERCENT in some metrics that historically demonstrate some level of success at his position. Plenty of college players look great against college competition, then come to the combine, test poorly, and then demonstrate that they dont belong in the NFL.

If you have a choice between two "blue chip" players at positions of need, dont take the guy who tests historically awful.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This raises an interesting issue, something i've wondered about for a while: Why the heck to they put all the players through the same drills, including the 40 yard dash? Shouldn't they have drills for D-linemen that measure their reaction time and maybe 20-yard dash time? Etc.

...dave

They don’t all do the same drills. For instance d lineman don’t run routes. But strength, speed and movement are all elemental parts of the game. And they do break things down to get measurements better equated with position - like looking at 10 yard splits for dlinemen. I’d bet teams exalt that above the actual 40 time.

 

[Finito]

This is why I wouldnt touch Brown with a 30 foot pole in round 1.

It's extremely rare that a DL that is as poor an athlete as Brown becomes an elite player. I'm not gambling on him in round one, where there are about a dozen players you could take at 8 or in a trade down that have a higher chance of succeeding.

lol in round 1?

Probably wouldn’t of taken Jerry Rice either with his horrible workouts

 

[football karma]

In the spirit of not cutting and pasting entire articles from behind paywalls:

This is from the Athletic, where they talk to scouts about prospects by position. Two quotes on Brown:



"Brown is one of the five best players in the draft regardless of position, and Kinlaw is the No. 2 defensive lineman on most draft boards.
“Brown’s probably the most certain of the top guys in the draft,” said an AFC scout. “It’s a bit of a reach to say he’s the best player in the draft, but I don’t think he’s going to fail. His floor is very high.”"




“He’s far and away the best,” said a third scout. “He’s the total package. There ain’t nothing he can’t do. Just watch the Alabama game. He’s phenomenal.” According to one scout, Brown displayed stunning speed getting out of his stance and hitting the bag in drills.

 

[daves]

They don’t all do the same drills. For instance d lineman don’t run routes. But strength, speed and movement are all elemental parts of the game. And they do break things down to get measurements better equated with position - like looking at 10 yard splits for dlinemen. I’d bet teams exalt that above the actual 40 time.

Sure, I know there are some differences, and 10-yard splits, etc. But they still make O-linemen do broad jumps and vertical leaps. Why?! I'm surprised they don't have specialized drills like you see on Sport Science. See how quickly an OL can react to the snap and how hard he can drive back a tackling dummy, that sort of thing. There's so much riding on the knowledge that's gained at the combine, they should try to measure exactly the things that are predictive of ability to perform in the NFL, not try to deduce or extrapolate that information from 40-yard times and broad jumps.

...dbs

 

[Chopper0080]

Here is what I know. A dude who demands double teams inside and can play a ton of snaps is incredibly valuable. Honestly, from a scheme standpoint, how do you handle Phillips, Peters and Brown up front with Chandler Jones outside?

 

[slanidrac16]

That is probably the most spot on post in this thread.

This is a 315 lbs dude running and exploding like a wide receiver. When the Combine numbers does not reflect your expectations, you go back to watch the tape and see if you were wrong. Great post, Jetstream!

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Just to make it clear, on this particular play Brown was late coming in to the field. He was not playing in the flat.lol.

 

[Solar7]

Here is what I know. A dude who demands double teams inside and can play a ton of snaps is incredibly valuable. Honestly, from a scheme standpoint, how do you handle Phillips, Peters and Brown up front with Chandler Jones outside?

Yep, this seems like a pile to handle. I can't imagine any offensive line in the league not unhappy about having to deal with nearly 1,000 LBs of players in front of them with the speed and technique of Jones and Hicks behind them.

 

[TheCardFan]

Your not drafting a DT in the top 10 because they can take on double teams and clog the middle.

You can get that guy much later in the draft.

 

[Solar7]

Your not drafting a DT in the top 10 because they can take on double teams and clog the middle.

You can get that guy much later in the draft.

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[Praxis]

Simmons or Lamb