Deshea Townsend & Russ Grimm

[Jetstream Green]

Of all our coaches, these guys make me question what the hell they are teaching guys. I think the main fault as teachers these guys have shown is that they are instructing players according to the coaches own past NFL ability, and what they had to do to be successful with their past skill sets instead of teaching the position to the players' own individual ability and the position itself. Grimm and Townsend also seem to lack the ability to not only teach past their own carbon copy basic skills (be like I was approach) but understand schemes. How many blown coverage blunders does the rest of the staff have to see in the secondary and OL not to see this?

 

[kerouac9]

That's the thing about the Steelers' defensive system and why it's not going to be solved with free agents: it takes years to learn.

The Steelers take a guy and develop him for two years before he earns his way into a starting job. They have solid starters in place for five or six years to allow the young players to develop. Then they sign the rising player to a cheap contract extension and have him locked up for the next six. They can afford to miss out on these midround guys, because there's no pressure to move them into the starting lineup.

You can't export the Pittsburgh defensive model because it requires generational development. That 3-4 has been developed, and the scouting requirements for the system, over 20 or 30 years. You just can't uproot that with a single coach and deliver it to a new area. They can miss on Jason Worilds and Thaddeus Gibson because they have guys in front of them that they know can play. They can miss on Bruce Davis because they have good players in front of him.

The Cards implementing the Pittsburgh system requires a complete re-set of the defense. It's going to happen at a glacial pace, and if we turn the page on this coaching staff, then we'll be starting over from scratch again.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

The Cards implementing the Pittsburgh system requires a complete re-set of the defense. It's going to happen at a glacial pace, and if we turn the page on this coaching staff, then we'll be starting over from scratch again.

Emphatically agree. The issues seem to come from the types of players they have been bringing in that may or may not fit the scheme, plus the problem of keeping our players during the times they have a lot of value - 4-6 years in. We have to keep them on versus letting the test the market or deciding if they are a 'core' player. They are a 'core' player if they know the system, can play well in it and do not have an immediate replacement.

 

[Big Deal]

That's the thing about the Steelers' defensive system and why it's not going to be solved with free agents: it takes years to learn.

The Steelers take a guy and develop him for two years before he earns his way into a starting job. They have solid starters in place for five or six years to allow the young players to develop. Then they sign the rising player to a cheap contract extension and have him locked up for the next six. They can afford to miss out on these midround guys, because there's no pressure to move them into the starting lineup.

You can't export the Pittsburgh defensive model because it requires generational development. That 3-4 has been developed, and the scouting requirements for the system, over 20 or 30 years. You just can't uproot that with a single coach and deliver it to a new area. They can miss on Jason Worilds and Thaddeus Gibson because they have guys in front of them that they know can play. They can miss on Bruce Davis because they have good players in front of him.

The Cards implementing the Pittsburgh system requires a complete re-set of the defense. It's going to happen at a glacial pace, and if we turn the page on this coaching staff, then we'll be starting over from scratch again.

Is it anything like what the 49ers are having to deal with this year? I'm done with excuses, everyone on this board thought that San Fran was mailing it in this year after the changes they made in the coaching staff, FA losses/lack of FA acquisitions, and injuries.

Despite all of the reasons for the players themselves to pack it in, the fans to accept a down year the coaching staff created an environment of no excuses. The players believe, you can tell they will run through a wall for the coaching staff.

I just don't see that here, I see lazy attitude where it seems like the play on the field is just waiting for the other shoe to drop. When something bad happens its the "here we go again" mentality.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I do not see our players as lazy at all, and Porter and Haggans just don't have anything left in the tank. No one just knows what the hell to do learning a new system where the LBs are the key to it all and our LBs in main positions are old and over the hill. It is not accurate to me to compare what the Niners are running on defense which does not seem half as complex with a stud veteran LB in Willis and then look at our team running the Steeler system from hell with no LBs outside of the young Washington who is still learning in the starting lineup. There are plain reasons why this defense stinks so far

 

[Catfish]

I'm with you JG-----our players are not lazy, they are not being placed into a position to succeed. They are more frustrated than anything else. That includes Porter and Haggans. THey are getting old and tired. The want to is there, but the body is failing them.

It is much the same with Levi. He knows that he is going to be all alone with any speed rusher he faces. That's a lot of angst to have to worry about in a pass first scenario. I still think the very best thing that Whiz can do with this offense is to make it a scheme in which we run to open up the pass. BEing a run first offense would at least bring more people into the box to stop the run, leaving fewer cover people in the secondary. It would also help with clock management. It's harder for the other team to score when we have the ball, and are running the clock.

 

[Russ Smith]

Is it anything like what the 49ers are having to deal with this year? I'm done with excuses, everyone on this board thought that San Fran was mailing it in this year after the changes they made in the coaching staff, FA losses/lack of FA acquisitions, and injuries.

Despite all of the reasons for the players themselves to pack it in, the fans to accept a down year the coaching staff created an environment of no excuses. The players believe, you can tell they will run through a wall for the coaching staff.

I just don't see that here, I see lazy attitude where it seems like the play on the field is just waiting for the other shoe to drop. When something bad happens its the "here we go again" mentality.

the thing is the 49ers had talent, it was just being wasted because Singletary insisted on the offense being to his liking and he didn't understand NFL offense.

The defense isn't really any better this year than last they just don't have the short fields and defensive TD's to overcome because the offense isn't killing them.

Last year SF was -1 takeaway for the year, this year they're +8, it's the whole reason they're winning they play solid defense, don't turn the ball over and run the ball.

The net yards per attempt on offense and defense are damn near the same the difference is the offense isn't beating them with mistakes.

15 INT's last year only 2 this year.

 

[Duckjake]

I do not see our players as lazy at all, and Porter and Haggans just don't have anything left in the tank. No one just knows what the hell to do learning a new system where the LBs are the key to it all and our LBs in main positions are old and over the hill. It is not accurate to me to compare what the Niners are running on defense which does not seem half as complex with a stud veteran LB in Willis and then look at our team running the Steeler system from hell with no LBs outside of the young Washington who is still learning in the starting lineup. There are plain reasons why this defense stinks so far

Well if our players aren't lazy then they're the slowest players in the NFL.

And what is up with the excuse that they're learning a new complex system when the Defensive formations and coverage look exactly like the ones they ran last year?

 

[Jetstream Green]

Yes we do lack speed, but what happens after the play starts dictates what the play is...the initial formation means nothing because it seems the responsibilities are very different out of the formation at least to me. I have never seen a team so lost on the field.

 

[Duckjake]

Yes we do lack speed, but what happens after the play starts dictates what the play is...the initial formation means nothing because it seems the responsibilities are very different out of the formation at least to me. I have never seen a team so lost on the field.

But what responsibilities are so different? I can't see that they're doing anything different than what they did last year with the exception of a couple of failed blitzes every game.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

the thing is the 49ers had talent, it was just being wasted because Singletary insisted on the offense being to his liking and he didn't understand NFL offense.

I think that there is talent on this team. Certainly more talent than some of the teams who have had success this year (The Bengals, etc.)

I want to see what a new regime can do with this roster