Devin Booker future extension

[Chaplin]

Why would it be too late? You change negotiations based upon fan expectations even though you have a better solution for the player and for the team? That wold be silly. If Booker is good with this--and that is a necessity-- then you just release a statement that says something like:

"Both Devin Booker and the Suns have decided to wait to sign a max extension until next summer to give the Suns an advantage in next summer's very desirable free agent market. Both Booker and the Suns are in agreement on this strategy."

That would be nice, but I don't think the odds are good. Besides A LOT can happen in a single year. If you have the opportunity to sign him now, you have to take it. As many have pointed out, we don't have the greatest reputation in the league.

 

[Phrazbit]

Because I’m a realist. Just like all of you, as a fan I wish we could be the New York Yankees and throw money at everyone all the time. But I recognize that (a) there’s a cap. Every dollar that goes in one direction, to some degree limits the ability to spend in another; and (b) Sarver and his partners aren’t the deepest pockets in the league (they’ve proven that time and again) so if they unnecessarily (if it’s indeed unnecessary) blow their wad here we’ll get to trade away two firsts in the future to unload a contract they can’t afford.

I don’t understand why you guys all see this as all or nothing.

Because that's the nature of max contacts. It's a max deal or it isn't. Trying to shave a mil or 2 off Booker's deal does nothing to help us sign anyone and instead shouts that we're the only team that wouldn't offer him the max without thinking twice.

This is not even a question, even having this conversation is inane.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And again, you love thinking that fantasy worlds like that exist. What makes you think that will happen here?

I think we'd all like it if Booker didn't take the max but was still all-in with staying with the SUns for his whole career, but that doesn't happen in today's NBA. But the fact of the matter is, in a player's league, having the "max" isn't just an amount, but a standing.

There are franchise players that have accepted less than the max to help their teams to achieve greater success. Not just in hoops. See Tom Brady. It happens. And even if it’s not the norm it can’t hurt to explore possibilities.

Finally, as someone else pointed out, there’s a lot more to contracts than just the $$$. There could be a ton of negotiating points.

 

[Hoop Head]

Why would it be too late? You change negotiations based upon fan expectations even though you have a better solution for the player and for the team? That wold be silly. If Booker is good with this--and that is a necessity-- then you just release a statement that says something like:

"Both Devin Booker and the Suns have decided to wait to sign a max extension until next summer to give the Suns an advantage in next summer's very desirable free agent market. Both Booker and the Suns are in agreement on this strategy."

If they came out together and said it, then it might work but wouldn't that be against the CBA? I know the order signings happen are manipulated frequently, the Lakers are doing that right now, but agreeing on a deal a year in advance is different than asking someone to wait a week.

I don't see it going over well with casual fans. While the people here can see the reasoning behind it, we're not the people who buy the majority of Suns tickets. Most fans would see that as "Sarver being cheap" and not understand they why behind it. It would definitely require some assurance from Booker to be able to sell it to the fans as a good thing though. Even then, I think there would still be a large amount of people claiming the sky is falling for not getting it done immediately.

 

[Phrazbit]

Finally, as someone else pointed out, there’s a lot more to contracts than just the $$$. There could be a ton of negotiating points.

This I agree with and I suspect is why it wasn't a 10 second negotiation. They need to make it clear what they expect of him, in appearances, in media and as a leader.

I also am guessing the one years/money negotiation is I bet he wants to have a player option on the 5th year, as a new max in 4 years will likely be much larger than now.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Let me ask you guys this: where do you draw the line? In other words, if booker wants the extension to be a player option every year, do you that to him? What if wants a 5 yr contract with the 4th and 5th year’s POs? Or the 3rd-5th years POs? I mean, he’s the franchise, he’s asking for it. Do you guys just give him anything he asks for? I don’t. But that’s me. Y’all seem to be so afraid of his leaving or the egg on the face of the franchise do you just give him whatever he wants no matter how ludicrous it might be?

Of course we wouldn't be okay with him getting all those player options. The point is that it makes a lot of sense to make it feel to Booker as though he came away as a winner in the deal. If that means a 5th year option than fine, but they should certainly try and get him to sign with no options first. It just shouldn't be a sticking point to coming away with a signed deal. The idea that the Suns should not be willing to accept because they can't come away with a specific leg up somewhere is what I think a lot of us disagree with. I even liked a post on here by JCsunsfan that suggested that they could give him the option to either take the max with no options this summer or get a 5th year option by signing next summer so that we could have more money in free agency.

Obviously if there is something as asinine as Booker demanding player options as soon as the 3rd year than we have to keep negotiating because that is not a contract that the Suns can afford to give out. Of course it's not a black and white situation and the Suns are going to try and get some things in their favor, but I don't think it is an absolute necessity that they come away feeling like the winner of the deal. At least not as important as it is that Booker feel that way.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Because that's the nature of max contacts. It's a max deal or it isn't. Trying to shave a mil or 2 off Booker's deal does nothing to help us sign anyone and instead shouts that we're the only team that wouldn't offer him the max without thinking twice.

This is not even a question, even having this conversation is inane.

Just because you say this doesn’t make it true. Every dollar not spent on one contract could (it may not, I freely admit that, as the team could already be over the cap as a whole) be spent on another. The smartest teams are those that manage their cap intelligently and proactively rather than reactively.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If they came out together and said it, then it might work but wouldn't that be against the CBA? I know the order signings happen are manipulated frequently, the Lakers are doing that right now, but agreeing on a deal a year in advance is different than asking someone to wait a week.

I don't see it going over well with casual fans. While the people here can see the reasoning behind it, we're not the people who buy the majority of Suns tickets. Most fans would see that as "Sarver being cheap" and not understand they why behind it. It would definitely require some assurance from Booker to be able to sell it to the fans as a good thing though. Even then, I think there would still be a large amount of people claiming the sky is falling for not getting it done immediately.

As someone else stated before, who cares about fan sentiment if both booker and the franchise are onboard.

 

[Mainstreet]

I guess I didn't miss anything.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This I agree with and I suspect is why it wasn't a 10 second negotiation. They need to make it clear what they expect of him, in appearances, in media and as a leader.

I also am guessing the one years/money negotiation is I bet he wants to have a player option on the 5th year, as a new max in 4 years will likely be much larger than now.

There could also be things like jordan’s “For love of the game” clauses or what if booker has offseason off-roading proclivities that the subs don’t want to be liable for, etc. there literally tons of things that could be included.

 

[Phrazbit]

Just because you say this doesn’t make it true. Every dollar not spent on one contract could (it may not, I freely admit that, as the team could already be over the cap as a whole) be spent on another. The smartest teams are those that manage their cap intelligently and proactively rather than reactively.

Those teams give max deals to stars and are creative with their role players.

The only team outside of that mold are the Warriors, who got strangely lucky with Curry's serious ankle problems at the start of his career.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Of course we wouldn't be okay with him getting all those player options. The point is that it makes a lot of sense to make it feel to Booker as though he came away as a winner in the deal. If that means a 5th year option than fine, but they should certainly try and get him to sign with no options first. It just shouldn't be a sticking point to coming away with a signed deal. The idea that the Suns should not be willing to accept because they can't come away with a specific leg up somewhere is what I think a lot of us disagree with. I even liked a post on here by JCsunsfan that suggested that they could give him the option to either take the max with no options this summer or get a 5th year option by signing next summer so that we could have more money in free agency.

Obviously if there is something as asinine as Booker demanding player options as soon as the 3rd year than we have to keep negotiating because that is not a contract that the Suns can afford to give out. Of course it's not a black and white situation and the Suns are going to try and get some things in their favor, but I don't think it is an absolute necessity that they come away feeling like the winner of the deal. At least not as important as it is that Booker feel that way.

I don’t disagree with you. I don’t think the team needs to feel like they “won” I think they just need to feel like the deal is reasonable. Booker feeling like a winner is more important, but I don’t think this should be viewed as a win or lose proposition. Ideally it should be win-win.

 

[carrrnuttt]

There’s That good old hyperbole again. If you can’t make a reasonable counter argument go straight to exaggeration.

The fact that no reasonable free agent is going to want to sign here unless traded if the Suns prove themselves willing to nickel-and-dime is not a reasonable counter argument? Because your willingness to hold on to yours (arguments) obsessively is "reasonable," LMAO.

Unless you've been in a cave lately, in our division alone, we're competing against L.A. and the Bay Area. Much better and more lucrative destinations (especially for getting non-NBA money) for A+ free agents. But hey, let's see if that spare million can get us Patrick Beverly so we lose out on <insert premier FA name here>.

 

[Phrazbit]

Also, this is why I wish there were no max deals. If not for the superstars having their value deflated a pseudo star like Booker would probably be looking at something like 3-4 years, 15-20 mil per.

As is though, he's unquestionably a max player.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

As someone else stated before, who cares about fan sentiment if both booker and the franchise are onboard.

Agreed. If they are both on board and are in no way in violation of the CBA than I have no issue with them agreeing to finalize a deal next year. We could potentially sign two high end free agents next year if they do that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Those teams give max deals to stars and are creative with their role players.

The only team outside of that mold are the Warriors, who got strangely lucky with Curry's serious ankle problems at the start of his career.

And I believe Durant took less to come over.

And I know Duncan took less at one point. What about Parker and GinobiLi? Im seriously asking I don’t know the answer?

And didn’t wade and/or bosh do the same in Miami?

 

[Phrazbit]

The only worry about waiting until next year is... what if we're really bad again? I personally think we'll be dramatically better, but still, it's a team of early 20s kids.

If we're terrible and he's unsigned, he might want out.

 

[Superbone]

I hope the Suns get some concession out of Booker....somewhere

The Art of the Deal or The Art of War?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Agreed. If they are both on board and are in no way in violation of the CBA than I have no issue with them agreeing to finalize a deal next year. We could potentially sign two high end free agents next year if they do that.

Right?!? I mean booker stated that he wants to make the playoffs. What gets him there faster? An extension a year early or waiting a year to get better teammates?

 

[Phrazbit]

And I believe Durant took less to come over.

And I know Duncan took less at one point. What about Parker and GinobiLi? Im seriously asking I don’t know the answer?

And didn’t wade and/or bosh do the same in Miami?

All those guys did so after already having max deals and winning at huge levels. None took less than the max on their first contract.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

And I believe Durant took less to come over.

And I know Duncan took less at one point. What about Parker and GinobiLi? Im seriously asking I don’t know the answer?

And didn’t wade and/or bosh do the same in Miami?

Sure players will take a little less (when they have already made a ton of money and want a chance at a title). These aren't guys taking less on their 2nd contract in the league and they aren't doing it for anything less than having a chance at winning a championship.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The only worry about waiting until next year is... what if we're really bad again? I personally think we'll be dramatically better, but still, it's a team of early 20s kids.

If we're terrible and he's unsigned, he might want out.

I kinda doubt that. If he agreed to wait a year he knows what he’s getting into this year. And he’s still a RFA at that point. I don’t think he’s the personality to go all agro, particularly with all the young talent.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sure players will take a little less (when they have already made a ton of money and want a chance at a title). These aren't guys taking less on their 2nd contract in the league and they aren't doing it for anything less than having a chance at winning a championship.

Fair

 

[carrrnuttt]

And I believe Durant took less to come over.

You have a 73-win team and a Championship to offer?

And I know Duncan took less at one point. What about Parker and GinobiLi?

Do you have a proven winning organization and a proven winning coach in that bag of yours?

And didn’t wade and/or bosh do the same in Miami?

Oh wait. We're offering All-Star buddies to play together and play with arguably the greatest player of their generation?

Man. I didn't know we had all these options. Why are we even keeping Booker, much less pay him?

EDIT: Speaking of hyperbole, pardon me if I find your attempting to use these highly contextual and outlying instances for us to nickel-and-dime our star as just a *little* hyperbolic and more than a little hypocritical, consider what you've been berating people about hyperbole for.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You have a 73-win team and a Championship to offer?



Do you have a proven winning organization and a proven winning coach in that bag of yours?



Oh wait. We're offering All-Star buddies to play together and play with arguably the greatest player of their generation?

Man. I didn't know we had all these options. Why are we even keeping Booker, much less pay him?

EDIT: Speaking of hyperbole, pardon me if I find your attempting to use these highly contextual and outlying instances for us to nickel-and-dime our star as just a *little* hyperbolic and more than a little hypocritical, consider what you've been berating people about hyperbole for.

I think you’re missing my point. If booker wants to get to, and stay in, the playoffs building, and maintaining, a team around him will be crucial. Right? Aw forget it . . . you’re just getting my point and I’m done banging my head against the wall. Whatever happens, happens. I hope everyone comes out of this happy and ready to excel.