Devin Booker future extension

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Why is this so important to you?

We (the rest of us rational fans) are hoping the Suns establish themselves here as a good destination for free agents since we recognize talent and are willing to take a risk if you can show that you have potential.

You and others want to establish the Suns as pessimistic a-holes who will nickel-and-dime you because "it's a business, and you the player are a commodity and don't need to feel anything about this except grateful that we're willing to pay you something."

The hell?

Because I’m a realist. Just like all of you, as a fan I wish we could be the New York Yankees and throw money at everyone all the time. But I recognize that (a) there’s a cap. Every dollar that goes in one direction, to some degree limits the ability to spend in another; and (b) Sarver and his partners aren’t the deepest pockets in the league (they’ve proven that time and again) so if they unnecessarily (if it’s indeed unnecessary) blow their wad here we’ll get to trade away two firsts in the future to unload a contract they can’t afford.

I don’t understand why you guys all see this as all or nothing.

 

[Chaplin]

Because I’m a realist. Just like all of you, as a fan I wish we could be the New York Yankees and throw money at everyone all the time. But I recognize that (a) there’s a cap. Every dollar that goes in one direction, to some degree limits the ability to spend in another; and (b) Sarver and his partners aren’t the deepest pockets in the league (they’ve proven that time and again) so if they unnecessarily (if it’s indeed unnecessary) blow their wad here we’ll get to trade away two firsts in the future to unload a contract they can’t afford.

I don’t understand why you guys all see this as all or nothing.

With Devin Booker specifically, what are your alternatives? Offer him the max, don't offer him the max, with or without a player option, with or without a team option... Since you are a realist, what realistic possibilities are there for this situation?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Because I’m a realist. Just like all of you, as a fan I wish we could be the New York Yankees and throw money at everyone all the time. But I recognize that (a) there’s a cap. Every dollar that goes in one direction, to some degree limits the ability to spend in another; and (b) Sarver and his partners aren’t the deepest pockets in the league (they’ve proven that time and again) so if they unnecessarily (if it’s indeed unnecessary) blow their wad here we’ll get to trade away two firsts in the future to unload a contract they can’t afford.

I don’t understand why you guys all see this as all or nothing.

The discussion at this point isn't even about money. It is well established at this point that they are working a max contract. The questions surrounding the contract at this point will be incentives and player/team options.

 

[Hoop Head]

Everyone wants to compare what booker did at an early age to lebron. Did lebron have substantially more help? I’ll grant you Kobe did. But I mean you gotta look at everything. Turning a blind eye to relevant information is stupid.

Lebron's teams didn't openly tank like the Suns have been doing. I think comparing Booker to Durant would make more sense. He was drafted to a team with nothing in place and was going through a rough period. He was the first piece to fall to them in their rebuilding efforts. They acquired Westbrook and Harden a few years into Durant's career and that could be similar to the Suns adding JJ and Ayton.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Exactly.

This isn't a debate about whether to give Dragan Bender $15mil a year or $10mil a year. This is a discussion about our franchise player. Demanding concessions? Really? How anyone can think that is the way to do business with Booker is nuts.

There comes the hyperbole. “Demanding concessions” is far different than “negotiating an extension.” But you live your life demanding. I’ll negotiate ina friendly manner. Someone earlier said something to the effect of this being adversarial. Negotiations don’t have to be adversarial if both sides want a long lasting relationship. It’s called compromise. And even when the power is imbalanced compromise typically results in a better ongoing relationship. By your definition bookers agent should be “demanding” everything, right? Not compromising because they have the power? Hardly seems a good way to engender a great team effort into the future.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Please. You're reading into something just so you can criticize posters. You know it and I know it.

Chap, what does the phrase “money doesn’t grow on trees” mean? When do you use it in context?

 

[Chaplin]

There comes the hyperbole. “Demanding concessions” is far different than “negotiating an extension.” But you live your life demanding. I’ll negotiate ina friendly manner. Someone earlier said something to the effect of this being adversarial. Negotiations don’t have to be adversarial if both sides want a long lasting relationship. It’s called compromise. And even when the power is imbalanced compromise typically results in a better ongoing relationship. By your definition bookers agent should be “demanding” everything, right? Not compromising because they have the power? Hardly seems a good way to engender a great team effort into the future.

And again, I ask you, what are they "negotiating"? All of us are guessing the negotiations are all around that 5th year player option. The dollar amount is irrelevant because we all know it's the max. So what are they negotiating? You've still yet to give us any ideas.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You too.

I'm only thin skinned when you attack posters without any reason.

That was hardly an “attack.”

 

[Chaplin]

Chap, what does the phrase “money doesn’t grow on trees” mean? When do you use it in context?

I'm done talking about this particular thing. I shouldn't have said that, obviously--didn't expect someone to not get it.

 

[carrrnuttt]

Because I’m a realist.

The stop following sports. Period.

This is an arena of life where grown men and women follow other grown men and women playing games, and pay out the nose for doing so. "Rationality" and "realism" has very limited shelf space in this world.

Just like all of you, as a fan I wish we could be the New York Yankees and throw money at everyone all the time. But I recognize that (a) there’s a cap. Every dollar that goes in one direction, to some degree limits the ability to spend in another; and (b) Sarver and his partners aren’t the deepest pockets in the league (they’ve proven that time and again) so if they unnecessarily (if it’s indeed unnecessary) blow their wad here we’ll get to trade away two firsts in the future to unload a contract they can’t afford.

There will be NO ONE. TO. "PAY." — or anyone at least worth it, if the Suns prove themselves misers against their own, homegrown star. This is as much of an investment into the Suns image and future as it is Devin's.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

With Devin Booker specifically, what are your alternatives? Offer him the max, don't offer him the max, with or without a player option, with or without a team option... Since you are a realist, what realistic possibilities are there for this situation?

I would think you lay the cards on the table. You let him know what different salaries will mean in terms of keeping and attracting future talent. You see if he’s willing to accept lower (like Tim Duncan did at points in his career) to help them build a team around him. If he wants the full max then i think you say yeah we’ll give that a year early but not player option. That’s a fair trade off. You also let him see what delaying would do for free agent signings next year and see if he wants to go for that. It’s a conversation. No demands. A discussion of what’s feasible. And let him decide what’s in his best interest with options.

What would you do? Go in and say here’s the max, you want a player option you got it. What else can we do for you? And just ignore all the other moving parts that might help him avoid “missing the playoffs” which he’s sworn to do?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Chap, what does the phrase “money doesn’t grow on trees” mean? When do you use it in context?

When someone is asking you to buy something you can't afford would be quite common. Which again is not the case with the Suns paying Booker.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The discussion at this point isn't even about money. It is well established at this point that they are working a max contract. The questions surrounding the contract at this point will be incentives and player/team options.

I don’t disagree with that.

So everyone that’s yelling that we have to roll over, do you just give booker everything he’s asking for in these elements too?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm done talking about this particular thing. I shouldn't have said that, obviously--didn't expect someone to not get it.

Hahahahaaa that’s rich. You said it and you’re the one that totally missed the irony. So funny.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The stop following sports. Period.

This is an arena of life where grown men and women follow other grown men and women playing games, and pay out the nose for doing so. "Rationality" and "realism" has very limited shelf space in this world.



There will be NO ONE. TO. "PAY." — or anyone at least worth it, if the Suns prove themselves misers against their own, homegrown star. This is as much of an investment into the Suns image and future as it is Devin's.

There’s That good old hyperbole again. If you can’t make a reasonable counter argument go straight to exaggeration.

If the max is $154M and they offer $148M with the hope of using that savings to sign someone like a young Patrick Beverly to help booker make the playoffs is it really “miserly?”

 

[Chaplin]

Hahahahaaa that’s rich. You said it and you’re the one that totally missed the irony. So funny.

Oh yes, because you're the smartest guy here, right? What a joke.

 

[Chaplin]

There’s That good old hyperbole again. If you can’t make a reasonable counter argument go straight to exaggeration.

If the max is $154M and they offer $148M with the hope of using that savings to sign someone like a young Patrick Beverly to help booker make the playoffs is it really “miserly?”

FINALLY! Something of substance instead of trying to attack the poster.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

When someone is asking you to buy something you can't afford would be quite common. Which again is not the case with the Suns paying Booker.

If you can’t afford it because it means you can’t buy something else (like a point guard to help booker get to the next playoffs - you know, make him happy - it’s nit just $$$ that booker wants), it is exactly the case.

 

[Chaplin]

In what universe is asking a franchise player to take less on his first opportunity for the max contract a good thing?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Oh yes, because you're the smartest guy here, right? What a joke.

I have no idea the level of anyone’s intelligence. I just saw a funny inconsistency in what you wrote, pointed it out, and you lost your mind calling it an “attack.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

FINALLY! Something of substance instead of trying to attack the poster.

What are you talking about? I’ve been talking about negotiations all along other than the post pointing out your funny post. Get off it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In what universe is asking a franchise player to take less on his first opportunity for the max contract a good thing?

In a universe where you open all possibilities and find something that makes everyone happy and allows the organization the most flexibility to continue to build a winner.

 

[Chaplin]

In a universe where you open all possibilities and find something that makes everyone happy and allows the organization the most flexibility to continue to build a winner.

And again, you love thinking that fantasy worlds like that exist. What makes you think that will happen here?

I think we'd all like it if Booker didn't take the max but was still all-in with staying with the SUns for his whole career, but that doesn't happen in today's NBA. But the fact of the matter is, in a player's league, having the "max" isn't just an amount, but a standing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Let me ask you guys this: where do you draw the line? In other words, if booker wants the extension to be a player option every year, do you that to him? What if wants a 5 yr contract with the 4th and 5th year’s POs? Or the 3rd-5th years POs? I mean, he’s the franchise, he’s asking for it. Do you guys just give him anything he asks for? I don’t. But that’s me. Y’all seem to be so afraid of his leaving or the egg on the face of the franchise do you just give him whatever he wants no matter how ludicrous it might be?

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think it's too late to go back and say they'll sign him next offseason. At this point the majority of fans are waiting on news of his extension and if the front office comes out and says they'll sign him next summer for maximum flexibility that will only bring on the questioning. We've been bad for too long at this point and most fans don't trust our front office, and with good reason, so trying to sell everyone on a deal happening later is a really tough sell. Especially when it's fairly clear that if the Suns struggle again this year, McD will be looking for a new job elsewhere. Then what would happen with Booker's extension?

If that was the plan, I think we'd know by now. There's no point in keeping negotiations going and leaking things to the media about a deal being imminent. Booker is the face of the franchise. Dragic was the last person to hold that sort of distinction and it's the same front office that ran him out. So there's not a lot of faith in them doing the right thing, at least in fans eyes, and I don't think I'd be the only one here worried about them doing something to screw it up down the line. Sign him now, get it done with.

Why would it be too late? You change negotiations based upon fan expectations even though you have a better solution for the player and for the team? That wold be silly. If Booker is good with this--and that is a necessity-- then you just release a statement that says something like:

"Both Devin Booker and the Suns have decided to wait to sign a max extension until next summer to give the Suns an advantage in next summer's very desirable free agent market. Both Booker and the Suns are in agreement on this strategy."

 

[Chaplin]

Let me ask you guys this: where do you draw the line? In other words, if booker wants the extension to be a player option every year, do you that to him? What if wants a 5 yr contract with the 4th and 5th year’s POs? Or the 3rd-5th years POs? I mean, he’s the franchise, he’s asking for it. Do you guys just give him anything he asks for? I don’t. But that’s me. Y’all seem to be so afraid of his leaving or the egg on the face of the franchise do you just give him whatever he wants no matter how ludicrous it might be?

I'm not sure why you're accusing us of being black and white here. Poker originally said that Booker should give concessions with his contract. Many of us countered that we weren't in a good position to demand concessions from Booker, considering his career so far and the state of the franchise. If by "negotiating" you mean whether or not he gets a player option in year 5, then sure, we should negotiate that. But there isn't much left to negotiate beyond that. The dollar amounts won't change---so the actual money is irrelevant to us idiots.