Devin Booker future extension

[3rdside]

You better be joking JC! The heat I’m getting for something that’s pretty obvious is something else.


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[JCSunsfan]

You better be joking JC! The heat I’m getting for something that’s pretty obvious is something else.


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Im not. He was the best pure shooter in his draft class. Everyone in the league knows he is a excellent shooter. He just won the three point contest. He has been absolutely clutch at the end of games. He shoots a huge volume of contested shots because he is the best player--though just 21 years of age--on a bad team.

Good grief, he has a better effective % than Michael Jordan did his third year (he was drafted into the same type of situation and had the same type of usage). Sometimes its hard to see the facts because of the stats that don't tell the whole story.

 

[3rdside]

You’re all in denial - this is freaking hilarious; so pure he’s not even in the top half of the league for TS%.

If there is anything that stats paint the picture of without distorting things it’s shooting - it’s why shooting has the heaviest weighting when calculating PER and is why Booker has such an average PER for such such high point scorer....he’s a bad 2pt shooter.




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[JCSunsfan]

You’re all in denial - this is freaking hilarious.




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When you are all alone in your opinion you real

You’re all in denial - this is freaking hilarious; so pure he’s not even in the top half of the league for TS%.

If there is anything that stats paint the picture of without distorting things it’s shooting - it’s why shooting has the heaviest weighting when calculating PER and is why Booker has such an average PER for such such high point scorer....he’s a bad 2pt shooter.




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Only a crazy man thinks everyone else is crazy!

 

[3rdside]

When you are all alone in your opinion you real

Only a crazy man thinks everyone else is crazy!

Your credibility is shot, sir.


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[SirStefan32]

Your credibility is shot, sir.


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No, he is absolutely right. You are literally claiming that Booker is not a good shooter, and you are the only one to claim such a thing. This is right up there with Slin claiming Magic Johnson was not a point guard.

 

[3rdside]

No, he is absolutely right. You are literally claiming that Booker is not a good shooter, and you are the only one to claim such a thing. This is right up there with Slin claiming Magic Johnson was not a point guard.

Except that I literally have the evidence to back it up.




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[3rdside]

And I’m not staying he’s poor, I’m saying he has a reasonable way to go to convince me he’s going to be effective inside the 3pt line because he is not great so far.



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[JCSunsfan]

No, he is absolutely right. You are literally claiming that Booker is not a good shooter, and you are the only one to claim such a thing. This is right up there with Slin claiming Magic Johnson was not a point guard.

I would agree, but my credibility is now shot, so. . .

 

[Chaplin]

Except that I literally have the evidence to back it up.




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Did you break out his percentages over the past 3 seasons? How does his percentage change from year to year? Averaging is a terrible way to go on this argument because he's so young.

 

[JS22]

Every second day I look at his box score he throws up horrendous shooting %'s that's why I checked, and statistically I'm correct, so we're paying him on potential and not actual output. And questioning everything in this world is the right approach, not just blindly following what everyone says even though I have said he's worthy of the max.

I'm not trying to attack you, but do you watch the games? I'll admit that I don't watch them all, but when I do it seems as if Booker is the ONLY player the opposing team cares about. A fair % of his shots are extremely difficult. And he probably shouldn't be taking them. But when you've got nobody else that can hit a jumper, or someone as passive and useless as Bender, you're forced to try and take over, leading to difficult and bad shots.

Booker really, REALLY needs another shooter and / or legitimate scoring option not named Warren next to him. I think that will take him to the next level. And yes, I'd pay him the max the second it's possible based on his potential to be the franchise cornerstone for the next 10 years.

Edit: Yeah I threw Bender into the conversation because of how infuriating it is to watch him play.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not trying to attack you, but do you watch the games? I'll admit that I don't watch them all, but when I do it seems as if Booker is the ONLY player the opposing team cares about. A fair % of his shots are extremely difficult. And he probably shouldn't be taking them. But when you've got nobody else that can hit a jumper, or someone as passive and useless as Bender, you're forced to try and take over, leading to difficult and bad shots.

Booker really, REALLY needs another shooter and / or legitimate scoring option not named Warren next to him. I think that will take him to the next level. And yes, I'd pay him the max the second it's possible based on his potential to be the franchise cornerstone for the next 10 years.

Edit: Yeah I threw Bender into the conversation because of how infuriating it is to watch him play.

I'm liking it but I'm still trying to figure out how Bender sneaks into the conversation.

 

[JS22]

I'm liking it but I'm still trying to figure out how Bender sneaks into the conversation.

Tipping point was watching Bender dribble out of a really easy shot close to the rim yesterday. He caught the ball, had a clear path to the basket, and didn't even bother to try and score. Just dribbled the ball away from the hoop and passed it. EJ ripped him pretty hard during the broadcast.

I am at the point of wanting Chriss to start and trade minutes with Bender. At least Chriss, and as awful he can be at times, showed legit flashes for stretches last year and isn't afraid of the ball.

 

[Mainstreet]

Tipping point was watching Bender dribble out of a really easy shot close to the rim yesterday. He caught the ball, had a clear path to the basket, and didn't even bother to try and score. Just dribbled the ball away from the hoop and passed it. EJ ripped him pretty hard during the broadcast.

I am at the point of wanting Chriss to start and trade minutes with Bender. At least Chriss, and as awful he can be at times, showed legit flashes for stretches last year and isn't afraid of the ball.

Bender driving out of easy baskets is indeed infuriating. He is looking more and more like Spencer Hawes who is now out of the NBA.

Gosh I hope this is not true.

 

[SirStefan32]

At least he took eight shots instead of one. He also had eight assists, so there is that.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

If I say you come 170th in a race with 314 people in it how do you grade that performance?

And if Booker ranks 170th in TS% out of 314 people who played > 500 minutes this season, does that change your opinion?

These are important questions you need to consider when building a team because if Booker doesn’t improve his TS%, as unlikely as that is as I have said multiple times, then we have a potential problem in view of paying him max dollars.

And while Booker is a probable slam dunk for a max extension, which I’ve also said he’s worthy of multiple times, he’s not a definite slam dunk because his statistics don’t bear that out; go look lebron and Durant’s statistics at the same stage of their careers for what a definite slam dunk looks like.


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Of those 314 players most of them barely shoot any shots per game. That is why I narrowed it down to good scorers and Booker is about average compared to the other top scorers in the league. I care a lot more how he compares to the other players that have a similar amount of responsibility to him than some guy who takes 5 wide open shots a game.

 

[Covert Rain]

You’re all in denial - this is freaking hilarious; so pure he’s not even in the top half of the league for TS%.

If there is anything that stats paint the picture of without distorting things it’s shooting - it’s why shooting has the heaviest weighting when calculating PER and is why Booker has such an average PER for such such high point scorer....he’s a bad 2pt shooter.




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OMG your still on PER being the be all end all?? Look I get the points your making about PER but that is not justification for letting the guy go.

Market dictates what a player is worth. If Booker goes on the open market he gets MAX. The question becomes can you afford to let his level of talent walk on a talent starved team?!

I say no. He gets max. If it doesn’t work out there is always a sucker team to take him off your hands later.

 

[Phrazbit]

Right, so LBJ and Durant were just ignored when people played them...Booker should have the opportunity to improve his TS% of course, for the many reasons which I've raised already.

And he almost certainly will... seeing as he is among the best shooters in NBA history at his age. Furthermore, what you're really knocking is his shot selection, and that knock has merit, he takes too many midrange 2s, and while he is good at making them, that shot lowers TS% because it does not carry the value of 3pt shots or shots that are more likely to draw fouls.

 

[3rdside]

Did you break out his percentages over the past 3 seasons? How does his percentage change from year to year? Averaging is a terrible way to go on this argument because he's so young.

See below post - he is miles behind LBJ and KD in TS% but his 3pt% is competitive, as I said. This is not about his 3pt shooting, it's about his 2pt shooting (which is what it's always been about).

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/fo...r-future-extension.255350/page-3#post-3663503

 

[3rdside]

I'm not trying to attack you, but do you watch the games? I'll admit that I don't watch them all, but when I do it seems as if Booker is the ONLY player the opposing team cares about.

I watch games when I can but mainly highlights as I'm in the UK and they're at bad times - but these are actually pretty good these days on youtube and get posted quickly after the games.

But to suggest Booker is somehow the first good player on a bad team to be the focus of a team's defence is a stretch, the difference is guys like KD and LBJ got statistically better across all shooting categories regardless, whereas Booker has flat lined his 2pt% three years straight. Fyi KD's teams went 20-62 then 23-59 his first two years and Westbrook arrived this second year so it's not like RW as a Rookie was better than what Booker had in Warren and Bledsoe.

A fair % of his shots are extremely difficult. And he probably shouldn't be taking them. But when you've got nobody else that can hit a jumper, or someone as passive and useless as Bender, you're forced to try and take over, leading to difficult and bad shots.

To say he hasn't had help is a reasonable argument in some senses but you can always ask the question from the other side:

If you accept that Booker isn't as athletic as some of the other guys out there, is the defence forcing him into these bad shots?

Saying he'll have a better PG and better players around him are valid arguments as to why he should increase his 2pt%, but having three years experience in the league and a flatlined 2pt% is not to be ignored.

And yes, I'd pay him the max the second it's possible based on his potential to be the franchise cornerstone for the next 10 years.

I have never disagreed with paying him the max, all i did was question how much he deserved it in view of the statistical output of guys like KD and LBJ, his below average TS% defined by a weak and not improving 2pt%....You'd think I was telling religious nuts god isn't real by the reactions of this board.

 

[3rdside]

Bender driving out of easy baskets is indeed infuriating. He is looking more and more like Spencer Hawes who is now out of the NBA.

Gosh I hope this is not true.

You think it's possible players might spend a game or five focusing on a certain aspect of their game e.g. passing, rather than play the exact same way for 82 games?

It's a long season, and in a dud one like ours you can afford to let players experiment and get comfortable with less familiar aspects of their game at the expense of their more usual ones.

 

[3rdside]

Of those 314 players most of them barely shoot any shots per game. That is why I narrowed it down to good scorers and Booker is about average compared to the other top scorers in the league. I care a lot more how he compares to the other players that have a similar amount of responsibility to him than some guy who takes 5 wide open shots a game.

Maybe you missed this list here:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/fo...r-future-extension.255350/page-7#post-3664262

 

[3rdside]

OMG your still on PER being the be all end all?? Look I get the points your making about PER but that is not justification for letting the guy go.

Good grief - it's about the shooting % that forms one part of PER, it just happens that this one part - shooting - carries the greatest weighting when calculating it.

And that's for good reason; it's the point of basketball - to score the ball - and, lucky for us, it's also the easiest and most non-grey area around which to measure someones basketball ability:

Did they put the ball in the hoop or not?

This is 100% measureable.

You can argue Booker takes tougher shots but he still takes them and misses them and there's no prizes for taking hard shots.

Yes, better team mates and a better PG will almost certainly help but what if Booker's slightly limited athleticism is to blame?

Again, his flatlined 2pt% just can't be ignored.

Market dictates what a player is worth. If Booker goes on the open market he gets MAX. The question becomes can you afford to let his level of talent walk on a talent starved team?!

I say no. He gets max. If it doesn’t work out there is always a sucker team to take him off your hands later.

At no stage have I said he doesn't deserve the Max.

 

[3rdside]

And he almost certainly will... seeing as he is among the best shooters in NBA history at his age. Furthermore, what you're really knocking is his shot selection, and that knock has merit, he takes too many midrange 2s, and while he is good at making them, that shot lowers TS% because it does not carry the value of 3pt shots or shots that are more likely to draw fouls.

Allelujah - someone finally gets it, but to add (again) you have to ask why he's always taking tough shots.

Is it just that he has bad team mates and a bad PG (but KD and Durant also did and they improved their 2pt% year on year) or is he just not physically gifted enough to find easier ones?

Cheesebeef loves to rail on Doncic for his lack of athleticism, that he will get killed by bigger and faster players, so there's no reason why the same isn't at play with Booker.

But that's no reason not to pay him the max and it's not like he couldn't tailor his game- if necessary - to become more of a pure shooter (i.e. 3pt baller) and less of a driver, as much as it will be a shame to see the tough shots he makes (relatively infrequently) fall by the wayside.

 

[3rdside]

Remember these takes when you start siding with 3rdside as he champions Donicic over the other possible mega-studs in the lotto:

Dude you can't even spell his name right! But I'm not here to talk semantics...You know where I stand on Ayton and i'm not calling Doncic anything until I've heard what he's like against NBA talent pre-draft; can he play the PG or not?

Does he have the drive of Drazen Petrovic or not?

If the answer is yes to both of those then yes I would take him over everyone not names Ayton.