Dexter done

[Snakester]

It seems like for every good decision Green makes, he then makes a bonehead move. I keep waiting for him to put Boldin on IR and then release him just because he didn't draft him. I don't understand his way of thinking at all. I bet the next guy he releases will be fullback James Hodgins. For no other reason than he didn't bring him here so he must not be any good. He is dumping players right and left whether they are good or not just because he didn't bring them here. He'll probably cut Leonard Davis at the end of the year for the hell of it. I also bet he won't re-sign Freddie Jones, but instead draft a TE next year and start him.

 

[pete]

You're missing my point Pete. Green put him on IR and openly said there may be an injury settlement if he didn't want to be here. IN other words, he's not so injured he won't be able to play this year(which is typically what it would take for a good veteran player to go on IR). Green put him on IR and that makes him untradeable, I don't even think you CAN trade a guy on IR.

If Green had simply put him on the injury list and let the back heal, if he still didn't like him, he could have traded him. The only reason he had no trade value was he was on IR, and apparently that wasn't necessary.

I don't know if you can trade a player on IR or not. Come to think of it, I don't think you can.

I think that with the way Green has been purging players, maybe teams knew Jackson would eventually be available for nothing. Maybe the Cards had discussions with other teams about Jackson before he was placed on IR. Maybe that was factored into the decision to put him on IR. My point is we don't know what was happening behind the scenes. It certainly makes sense to get some value for the guy, but we don't know that it was possible.

 

[Russ Smith]

It seems like for every good decision Green makes, he then makes a bonehead move. I keep waiting for him to put Boldin on IR and then release him just because he didn't draft him. I don't understand his way of thinking at all. I bet the next guy he releases will be fullback James Hodgins. For no other reason than he didn't bring him here so he must not be any good. He is dumping players right and left whether they are good or not just because he didn't bring them here. He'll probably cut Leonard Davis at the end of the year for the hell of it. I also bet he won't re-sign Freddie Jones, but instead draft a TE next year and start him.

I think you're right on Jones although based on what he's done this year it's hard to complain if he is gone. I do think again from watching the first half of the SF game he's open a lot more than his catch numbers would lead you to believe. What's odd is that according to what I've read, Jones and McCown are very good friends, you'd think Josh would be throwing him the ball more not less, I think it's an example of him sticking to his first option a bit too much he doesn't see the TE.

I was never a huge Hodgins fan either, good blocker but we signed him and then went 3WR which means he won't be on the field. Green is the same way he doesn't play FB's that much and when he does, he wants them to be threats like Leroy Hoard was. I would assume Hodgins is gone.

I'm sure we'll get plenty of comments from people who see a good side to cutting Dex, that back injuries are easy to fake, that he was obviously not buying into Green's system etc. I just don't buy it. My guess is Dex was another guy he suspects turned him in for the OTA violations, he was hurt so if he cut him there was a problem, so he put him on IR.

 

[spanky1]

I'm very curious to learn the answer to this question in light of the Jackson move.........why haven't they handled Hodgins in the same fashion as Jackson? He clearly does not figure into any Green offensive scheme (big huge blocker with marginal receiving skills). Is he being kept around cuz he might have trade value?

 

[clif]

I don't know if you can trade a player on IR or not. Come to think of it, I don't think you can.

I think that with the way Green has been purging players, maybe teams knew Jackson would eventually be available for nothing. Maybe the Cards had discussions with other teams about Jackson before he was placed on IR. Maybe that was factored into the decision to put him on IR. My point is we don't know what was happening behind the scenes. It certainly makes sense to get some value for the guy, but we don't know that it was possible.

How can you trade a guy that was injured? He appears to have been injured all the way up to the start of the season, and the team could not afford saving a roster spot for him. The rest is just speculation at this point.

EDIT: Oh and BTW ..if he was not injured (and didn't fake it) why didnt Graves or Bidwill make the call and trade him??? My guess is that he was either really hurt, or faked it and thus forced the teams hand...they put him on IR to see if he will change, and he didn't. that is my guess

 

[spanky1]

Are we not seeing the forest thru the trees here? Is it a given that Ohalete or Harris are "locks" for the FS position? Maybe, just maybe, Green has something up his sleeve.......could it be that Michael Stone will be playing at FS before too long?

 

[Russ Smith]

How can you trade a guy that was injured? He appears to have been injured all the way up to the start of the season, and the team could not afford saving a roster spot for him. The rest is just speculation at this point.

Clif, Anquan Boldin has been hurt all year too, Green didn't put him on IR and didn't have to put Dex on it either.

We don't know, that's correct, but given what's been said it appears Dex is no longer injured since there was apparently no settlement. If that's true, he's likely going to sign somewhere else and in a few weeks be playing. The reason he had no trade value is he was on IR and that was Greens' decision.

Again, we traded for a guy, Troy Hambrick, who was totally out of shape, and had days earlier walked out of Raider camp because he wasn't getting enough reps, you can trade players in the NFL, especially good ones like Dex.

The only way this makes sense is if Dex's back is bad enough that he had no trade value, if it was, it's highly unlikely he'd have been cut without an injury settlement.

Where is Jim O when we need his inside info?

 

[Pariah]

Here's an outlandish thought: Could we have put Dex on IR thinking he was done for the season, then realizing he's going to be healthy for the second half we cut him so that we can sign him again and play him? Is that a loophole in the IR rules?

 

[pete]

Clif, Anquan Boldin has been hurt all year too, Green didn't put him on IR and didn't have to put Dex on it either.

We don't know, that's correct, but given what's been said it appears Dex is no longer injured since there was apparently no settlement. If that's true, he's likely going to sign somewhere else and in a few weeks be playing. The reason he had no trade value is he was on IR and that was Greens' decision.

Again, we traded for a guy, Troy Hambrick, who was totally out of shape, and had days earlier walked out of Raider camp because he wasn't getting enough reps, you can trade players in the NFL, especially good ones like Dex.

The only way this makes sense is if Dex's back is bad enough that he had no trade value, if it was, it's highly unlikely he'd have been cut without an injury settlement.

Where is Jim O when we need his inside info?

I thought once a player was put on IR, we was done for the year no matter what team he played for. So Jackson can sign with another team and start playing?

 

[Rats]

I'm sure we'll get plenty of comments from people who see a good side to cutting Dex, that back injuries are easy to fake, that he was obviously not buying into Green's system etc. I just don't buy it. My guess is Dex was another guy he suspects turned him in for the OTA violations, he was hurt so if he cut him there was a problem, so he put him on IR.

Russ, I think you are right on with this assessment and it really hurts to lose Dex without getting something for him. If he was faking injury then even if he was our best defender last season he sent the signal that he didn't want to be here. There is more to it than just the back injury. A trade should have been worked out back in Training Camp. If Dex was one of the guys that turned DG in then you have to look at it as he was trying to get traded and using what leverage he had to get out. DG tried to teach him a lesson and put him on IR. It cost both sides. Another player loss that will have to be replaced later. But DG isn't going to change the way he coaches for anyone. We can except it and get behind it or not and keep being critics, I just want this team to win and I don't care what players are there or not there. If DG helps us become a winning franchise all the player personel moves will be moot but it hurts to lose a good player like DEX for nothing.

 

[Russ Smith]

Here's an outlandish thought: Could we have put Dex on IR thinking he was done for the season, then realizing he's going to be healthy for the second half we cut him so that we can sign him again and play him? Is that a loophole in the IR rules?

Pretty sure that's against the rules, he'd have to clear waivers and I think the team that cuts him has last claim right so even with our record, every other NFL team would have to pass on him first.

The part that makes me suspicious is Green saying when he put him on IR there may be an injury settlement reached depending on if he wants to be here or not. That implied that Green knew when he put him on IR, he wasn't really going to miss the year because of the back.

 

[Russ Smith]

I thought once a player was put on IR, we was done for the year no matter what team he played for. So Jackson can sign with another team and start playing?

Only for the team he was with, he's not on IR anymore because we cut him so if he's healthy, he can play.

 

[Snakester]

I think you're right on Jones although based on what he's done this year it's hard to complain if he is gone. I do think again from watching the first half of the SF game he's open a lot more than his catch numbers would lead you to believe. What's odd is that according to what I've read, Jones and McCown are very good friends, you'd think Josh would be throwing him the ball more not less, I think it's an example of him sticking to his first option a bit too much he doesn't see the TE.

I was never a huge Hodgins fan either, good blocker but we signed him and then went 3WR which means he won't be on the field. Green is the same way he doesn't play FB's that much and when he does, he wants them to be threats like Leroy Hoard was. I would assume Hodgins is gone.

I'm sure we'll get plenty of comments from people who see a good side to cutting Dex, that back injuries are easy to fake, that he was obviously not buying into Green's system etc. I just don't buy it. My guess is Dex was another guy he suspects turned him in for the OTA violations, he was hurt so if he cut him there was a problem, so he put him on IR.

The situation with Freddie Jones reminds me of what we did with TE Jay Novachek when he played for us. Because Novachek could not block worth anything we didn't want him. Of course we all know that he was an outstanding receiving TE. I think Green is doing the same thing to Jones. Instead of using his strength which is catching the ball, he is using him more for blocking. You can see it and I think everybody else can see that to. Green is a systems coach. He has his idea of how each position is supposed to be played in his system and he won't have it any other way.

I think we will be drafting a TE and a FS next year.

 

[Russ Smith]

The situation with Freddie Jones reminds me of what we did with TE Jay Novachek when he played for us. Because Novachek could not block worth anything we didn't want him. Of course we all know that he was an outstanding receiving TE. I think Green is doing the same thing to Jones. Instead of using his strength which is catching the ball, he is using him more for blocking. You can see it and I think everybody else can see that to. Green is a systems coach. He has his idea of how each position is supposed to be played in his system and he won't have it any other way.

I think we will be drafting a TE and a FS next year.

Yeah but Novacek was washed up, he barely did anything for Dallas after we cut him )-: They got Awalt from us too .

I guess it proves Green isn't the only guy who cuts useful players.

 

[Snakester]

Here's an outlandish thought: Could we have put Dex on IR thinking he was done for the season, then realizing he's going to be healthy for the second half we cut him so that we can sign him again and play him? Is that a loophole in the IR rules?

That would make too much sense. Denny Green is not that logical.

 

[az jam]

DJ never bought into Denny's program at all. Don't know why but that seems to be a fact. I can't recall if (due to his back injury?) he participated in any of the workout and practice sessions prior to the training camp. It seems like he did not want to be here (a Cardinal) any longer. If that is the case than its best that he is gone. Do agree with all that it would have been nice to get something in return.

 

[DKCards]

Q was not put on IR with a knee injury. It is pretty cut and dry that a repaired MCL takes 6 to 8 weeks to heal. Green knew that Q would be back. Backs can be a very tricky thing. They can flare up at any time, heal in a week or never get better. Maybe Green felt better about the secondary then the receiving corps. Maybe he didn’t think he could afford to have 2 players just waiting around. You add Hambrick and that makes 3 but they had no one behind Smith. Then Thompson makes 4, Shelton 5. Could the Cards afford to have 5 guys on the shelf? 4 were bad enough. Green had to make some decision.



Now cutting him I don’t understand but hopefully there is some reasoning behind that. Can you resign someone after cutting then off the IR?



If Mac would have done this he would have made some PR statement that we did it so that Dex would be able to hook up and play with someone this season. But it still would not improve the team. Denny just doesn’t do those PR media announcements.

 

[Lars the Red]

Yeah but Novacek was washed up, he barely did anything for Dallas after we cut him )-: They got Awalt from us too .

I guess it proves Green isn't the only guy who cuts useful players.

Oh crap! I just noticed that you had an emoticon that didn't show up on your post, Russ. And I went to the trouble of finding Novacek's stats to prove you wrong. Oh well, just for old times sake, here is what he did after leaving the Cards.


1990 dal | 16 | 59 657 11.1 4 |
| 1991 dal | 16 | 59 664 11.3 4 |
| 1992 dal | 16 | 68 630 9.3 6 |
| 1993 dal | 16 | 44 445 10.1 1 |
| 1994 dal | 16 | 47 475 10.1 1 |
| 1995 dal | 15 | 62 705 11.4 5

 

[spanky1]

DJ never bought into Denny's program at all. Don't know why but that seems to be a fact. I can't recall if (due to his back injury?) he participated in any of the workout and practice sessions prior to the training camp. It seems like he did not want to be here (a Cardinal) any longer. If that is the case than its best that he is gone. Do agree with all that it would have been nice to get something in return.

I seem to recall that Jackson was participating in the OTA's but missed TC. I know Green was upset with this and clearly said on camera that "he can't make the team sitting in the tub".

I have NEVER heard a derogatory comment about Jackson's intensity level or his lack of interest in being a Card under Green.

Something's rotten in the state of Denmark here. I'm sure it'll surface sooner than later.

 

[Reddog]

To me the most curious thing about this timing is that you lose that little bit of leverage you had in negotiations with Wilson. Now he knows he is the only premier Safety on the team. Why not wait until after the deal is signed as insurance iin the unlikely event that Wilson negotiations end in a stalemate. There has to be more to the picture. Either DJ really crossed a line (see Kendall) or they really believe that injury will reoccur.

 

[clif]

Clif, Anquan Boldin has been hurt all year too, Green didn't put him on IR and didn't have to put Dex on it either.

We don't know, that's correct, but given what's been said it appears Dex is no longer injured since there was apparently no settlement. If that's true, he's likely going to sign somewhere else and in a few weeks be playing. The reason he had no trade value is he was on IR and that was Greens' decision.

Again, we traded for a guy, Troy Hambrick, who was totally out of shape, and had days earlier walked out of Raider camp because he wasn't getting enough reps, you can trade players in the NFL, especially good ones like Dex.

The only way this makes sense is if Dex's back is bad enough that he had no trade value, if it was, it's highly unlikely he'd have been cut without an injury settlement.

Where is Jim O when we need his inside info?

Please see my edit. I think he was really hurt or faked it...thus making a trade impossible. (because no team would trade for a supposed injured player.. it is against NFL rules.

 

[Russ Smith]

Q was not put on IR with a knee injury. It is pretty cut and dry that a repaired MCL takes 6 to 8 weeks to heal. Green knew that Q would be back. Backs can be a very tricky thing. They can flare up at any time, heal in a week or never get better. Maybe Green felt better about the secondary then the receiving corps. Maybe he didn’t think he could afford to have 2 players just waiting around. You add Hambrick and that makes 3 but they had no one behind Smith. Then Thompson makes 4, Shelton 5. Could the Cards afford to have 5 guys on the shelf? 4 were bad enough. Green had to make some decision.



[

]

I wasn't saying Quan should have been on IR, I was showing Clif proof that you don't have to put an injured player on IR so he's out for the year. And an example of a player who's injured, but who could easily be traded if the entire front office woke up lobotomized and decided that made sense.

Jackson is not as good a player as Quan(compared to others around the NFL at his position) but he was our best defender last year and if his back is ok, which I'm assuming it is with no injury settlement, he could have been traded if he hadn't been on IR.

Backs can linger, we all understand that, but Green's other comments made it appear all along that this wasn't just a back injury, that he had some question as to whether Dex wanted to be here or not. If he really didn't want to be here, trade him. If you can't trade him because the back won't pass a physical and wait until he is healthy enough to trade.

 

[Russ Smith]

To me the most curious thing about this timing is that you lose that little bit of leverage you had in negotiations with Wilson. Now he knows he is the only premier Safety on the team. Why not wait until after the deal is signed as insurance iin the unlikely event that Wilson negotiations end in a stalemate. There has to be more to the picture. Either DJ really crossed a line (see Kendall) or they really believe that injury will reoccur.

True, but I wonder, in this case if the injury did reoccur, couldn't Jackson claim the Cards are liable since it happened while he was here (assuming no other team signed him)?

I think it'll be interesting if he clears waivers and starts getting other teams physicals what it shows, if he's failing physicals he'll be filing a grievance for being cut while injured, if he's passing physicals, we'll know he's at least healthy enough for now.

 

[Russ Smith]

Please see my edit. I think he was really hurt or faked it...thus making a trade impossible. (because no team would trade for a supposed injured player.. it is against NFL rules.

But they can trade for a player that was injured when the season started but is healthy now. As long as the player can pass a physical.

I'm not saying he wasn't hurt, I'm sure he was, but the way Green announced it made it appear that he didn't really think he'd miss the whole year.

 

[spanky1]

True, but I wonder, in this case if the injury did reoccur, couldn't Jackson claim the Cards are liable since it happened while he was here (assuming no other team signed him)?

I think it'll be interesting if he clears waivers and starts getting other teams physicals what it shows, if he's failing physicals he'll be filing a grievance for being cut while injured, if he's passing physicals, we'll know he's at least healthy enough for now.

Jackson does not have to clear waivers.......he is a totally free FA and is in control as to where he might end up.