Diamondbacks To Sign Bronson Arroyo

[Phrazbit]

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/keith-law/post/_/id/1782/arizona-makes-mistake-by-signing-arroyo

Kieth Law's take.

Arroyo has long been homer-prone because he pitches with below-average velocity and doesn't have great movement or sink on whatever we want to call his fastball. While pitching in Cincinnati, one of the majors' most homer-friendly parks, hasn't helped, the reality of Arroyo's recent history is that he's not homer-prone because of Great American Ballpark -- he's homer-prone because he has below-average stuff. Over the last three years, his home run allowed rates have been nearly equal at home and on the road, whether we go by home runs per 9 innings pitched (1.59 at home versus 1.51 on the road) or by home runs per 30 batters faced (1.26 at home, 1.22 on the road). Any further loss of velocity will only exacerbate the issue, and his gopheritis is already one of the worst cases in the majors. This means he’s a few more homers a year away from being nonviable as a major-league starter.

Arroyo has also long had problems with left-handed hitters, another issue that isn't improving with age and that could intensify quickly with any loss of stuff. Over the last three years, lefties have hit .299/.339/.534 against Arroyo
...

The oddest part about the signing is that the D-backs already had a player a lot like Arroyo last season and gave him away for 50 cents on the dollar: Ian Kennedy. Kennedy was also a homer-prone, fringy-fastball, strike-throwing innings eater type, but didn't have Arroyo's platoon-split issues and will make just $6 million in 2014.

 

[PDXChris]

http://www.azsnakepit.com/2013/5/18/4342540/paul-goldschmidt-diamondbacks

I get it, you are Keith Law. I makes sense now.

 

[Phrazbit]

http://www.azsnakepit.com/2013/5/18/4342540/paul-goldschmidt-diamondbacks

I get it, you are Keith Law. I makes sense now.

So, a guy who opines about just about every topic in baseball as part of his job was wrong about Paul Goldschmidt... so that means his opinion should be ignored on all topics, even when supported by facts?

If you applied this standard to all writers, and all posters on these forums, then then nothing would be worth reading.

 

[PDXChris]

So, a guy who opines about just about every topic in baseball as part of his job was wrong about Paul Goldschmidt... so that means his opinion should be ignored on all topics, even when supported by facts?

If you applied this standard to all writers, and all posters on these forums, then then nothing would be worth reading.

Keith Law is a failed scout is was so bad at his job he became a writer. He helped destroy the Blue Jays farm system, so I take nothing he says as anything but pure garbage. And the fact that he still refuses to give Goldy any form of credit only proves that. But hey, you and Law seem to have the same baseball eye, so maybe you should become a writer.

 

[Phrazbit]

Well, I disagreed with him on Goldschmidt, I didnt get why he wasnt called up sooner when he was killing it in AAA and we had a massive hole at 1st.

As for Bronson, keep your head in the sand if you want. The guy is a 37 year old with declining stuff who already gives up more homers than anyone in baseball. Towers is keeping to his time honored formula of getting rid of a guy (Kennedy) only to replace him with someone very similar, only older and much more expensive.

If you can use the Goldschmidt article to write off everything Law has to say then I can use countless awful trades and signings by Towers to conclude that he is absolutely clueless at his job.

Its going to be sadly humorous to see how peoples tune changes over the next couple years as the fortunes of this franchise continue to decline.

 

[sfrancis13]

Keith Law is a failed scout is was so bad at his job he became a writer. He helped destroy the Blue Jays farm system, so I take nothing he says as anything but pure garbage. And the fact that he still refuses to give Goldy any form of credit only proves that. But hey, you and Law seem to have the same baseball eye, so maybe you should become a writer.

Apparently you didn't hear he was interviewed by the Astros for a position in their front office? Also you apparently didn't read this...

insider.espn.go.com/blog/keith-law/post/_/id/1297/players-whove-exceeded-my-expectations

Name a writer who scouts players that you agree with. Curious to see who your go-to guy is.

 

[sfrancis13]

Also, provide some examples of how he destroyed the Blue Jays farm system. It is kind of hard to do as a special assistant to the GM.

 

[PDXChris]

Also, provide some examples of how he destroyed the Blue Jays farm system. It is kind of hard to do as a special assistant to the GM.

Pretty sure I said helped, good job tolling though.

 

[PDXChris]

Also, provide some examples of how he destroyed the Blue Jays farm system. It is kind of hard to do as a special assistant to the GM.

See, I don't need any that agree with me, it is my opinion and my opinion alone. Not sure your point here unless you are trolling again. For some reason you think Phrazbit and I actually are taking this as more than a message board disagreement.

Of course, it does appear that my opinion bothers you since half of your 13 posts have been directly pointed at me. Glad to know I have an admirer. Sorry to disappoint you, but I am married.

 

[PDXChris]

During his time with the Blue Jays, he acted as a major league and minor league scout, contract negotiator, and provided assistance to the team's marketing and sales staffs. Law reached the position of "Special Assistant to the GM" before resigning in 2006 to work at ESPN.

FWIW

Yup he had no influence there.

 

[sfrancis13]

See, I don't need any that agree with me, it is my opinion and my opinion alone. Not sure your point here unless you are trolling again. For some reason you think Phrazbit and I actually are taking this as more than a message board disagreement.

Of course, it does appear that my opinion bothers you since half of your 13 posts have been directly pointed at me. Glad to know I have an admirer. Sorry to disappoint you, but I am married.

You made a dumb statement and I asked you to back it up. All I am asking is for you to provide one tiny piece of evidence to back up your statement. If trolling in your mind equals accountability then yes, I am trolling.

I want to have insightful discussion about baseball and comments like that undermine all progress towards that. Your 'joke' also doesn't help your case.

 

[PDXChris]

You made a dumb statement and I asked you to back it up. All I am asking is for you to provide one tiny piece of evidence to back up your statement. If trolling in your mind equals accountability then yes, I am trolling.

I want to have insightful discussion about baseball and comments like that undermine all progress towards that. Your 'joke' also doesn't help your case.

Accountability about what? I answered all your questions. Your obsessing is getting scary, so I am going to use the ignore option now. Good luck I what every you are looking for.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well, I disagreed with him on Goldschmidt, I didnt get why he wasnt called up sooner when he was killing it in AAA and we had a massive hole at 1st.

As for Bronson, keep your head in the sand if you want. The guy is a 37 year old with declining stuff who already gives up more homers than anyone in baseball. Towers is keeping to his time honored formula of getting rid of a guy (Kennedy) only to replace him with someone very similar, only older and much more expensive.

If you can use the Goldschmidt article to write off everything Law has to say then I can use countless awful trades and signings by Towers to conclude that he is absolutely clueless at his job.

Its going to be sadly humorous to see how peoples tune changes over the next couple years as the fortunes of this franchise continue to decline.

Goldy never killed it in AAA...


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[AZ Native]

Goldy never killed it in AAA...


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He was only in AAA for 103 games so it's not like they left him there too long. But he did hit .306 with 30 HRs and 94 RBIs in those 103 games.

 

[82CardsGrad]

He was only in AAA for 103 games so it's not like they left him there too long. But he did hit .306 with 30 HRs and 94 RBIs in those 103 games.

Nope.... Goldy never played a single game in AAA.


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[AZ Native]

Nope.... Goldy never played a single game in AAA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're right, it was AA. My mistake.

 

[DWKB]

He's a soft thrower, not quite in the Jamie Moyer mold, but you get the idea. He should be fine for two more years.

BTW- I don't like this, BUT if Cahill, McCarthy, or Delgado struggles, he's a decent insurance policy.

Have you looked at Arroyo's similar players age 36 season and how they did the next two years? Plenty of reason to have concern.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/f...ybr01:Bronson Arroyo&st=int&compage=36&age=36

 

[82CardsGrad]

You're right, it was AA. My mistake.

And, speaking of Goldy... It's funny nobody mentions the deal Towers struck with him last year which locks him thru the 2019 season. And when you compare Goldy's deal to the contract the Braves just gave to Freddie Freeman, it makes the deal Towers struck all that much more awesome.

Towers ain't perfect... who is? But, man the hate he gets from certain people on this board is so over the top...

 

[AZ Native]

And, speaking of Goldy... It's funny nobody mentions the deal Towers struck with him last year which locks him thru the 2019 season. And when you compare Goldy's deal to the contract the Braves just gave to Freddie Freeman, it makes the deal Towers struck all that much more awesome.

Towers ain't perfect... who is? But, man the hate he gets from certain people on this board is so over the top...

I mentioned that in a previous post. I think it was 5 years for 32 mil extension. That was a great move by Towers and the DBacks.

I like many of the moves he has made. I'm not crazy about the Arroyo signing, mostly because I have followed him while he was on my fantasy team. But it could turn out to be a decent signing. Only time will tell.

I'm the first to respect the position because I know Towers is 100 times more qualified than anyone on here. It's like we know it all, because we are playing with matchsticks, while this is his livelihood.

I too don't mind someone disagreeing with a move and stating why. That is what makes this board interesting. If everyone always agreed, I would never post. But only hating and never seeing the positive, well, that speaks for itself.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I mentioned that in a previous post. I think it was 5 years for 32 mil extension. That was a great move by Towers and the DBacks.

I like many of the moves he has made. I'm not crazy about the Arroyo signing, mostly because I have followed him while he was on my fantasy team. But it could turn out to be a decent signing. Only time will tell.

I'm the first to respect the position because I know Towers is 100 times more qualified than anyone on here. It's like we know it all, because we are playing with matchsticks, while this is his livelihood.

I too don't mind someone disagreeing with a move and stating why. That is what makes this board interesting. If everyone always agreed, I would never post. But only hating and never seeing the positive, well, that speaks for itself.

Well said...

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Arroyo is very bland but he keeps McCarthy from pitching hopefully so I will take it.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Arroyo is very bland but he keeps McCarthy from pitching hopefully so I will take it.

I don't think anyone is looking at Arroyo as our Kershaw... Pretty sure we all have the same expectation level with the guy. I think if he can give a year anywhere close to what he's done for the past 9 years, where he has averaged 211 innings, 13 W's and 10 L's and a 1.27 WHIP, he will have earned his keep...

 

[DWKB]

The comparison is not Arroyo to Kershaw, it's Arroyo to the staff as a whole. It's not about Arroyo earning his keep by being his mediocre self, it's how he helps a mediocre team compete. How does his hopefully 200 IP of league avg ERA better our league average ERA staff of last year? Better yet, how does paying Arroyo $23.5M for the next two years look like a better option than paying Ian Kennedy $6M next year instead of trading him for two throw away relievers?

The answer to these questions is that this move doesn't make us better, it doubles down on mediocrity. Not only that, but it essentially replaces cheaper players we trade away with more expensive ones.

 

[Brian]

Have you looked at Arroyo's similar players age 36 season and how they did the next two years? Plenty of reason to have concern.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/f...ybr01:Bronson Arroyo&st=int&compage=36&age=36

I was only suggesting that he should be fine due to the fact that he doesn't rely on velocity, which tends to go away with age.

I'm not a big fan of this deal, and although the market dictates the price, I think 22 million for a guy of his caliber and his age is ridiculous.

 

[Phrazbit]

The comparison is not Arroyo to Kershaw, it's Arroyo to the staff as a whole. It's not about Arroyo earning his keep by being his mediocre self, it's how he helps a mediocre team compete. How does his hopefully 200 IP of league avg ERA better our league average ERA staff of last year? Better yet, how does paying Arroyo $23.5M for the next two years look like a better option than paying Ian Kennedy $6M next year instead of trading him for two throw away relievers?

The answer to these questions is that this move doesn't make us better, it doubles down on mediocrity. Not only that, but it essentially replaces cheaper players we trade away with more expensive ones.

Exactly, its yet another expansion of the payroll with very little improvement of the talent.

I too don't mind someone disagreeing with a move and stating why. That is what makes this board interesting. If everyone always agreed, I would never post. But only hating and never seeing the positive, well, that speaks for itself.

I actually have pointed out the moves I liked in the past. Not everything has been terrible but taken as a whole Towers has been overwhelmingly bad.

Towers has dramatically expanded the payroll, he has made the team much older, he has drained the farm system and in the process he has taken a young division winner he had very little to do with constructing and made them worse with each passing season.

And it would be one thing if Towers seemed to have some sort of plan but he clearly does not. You can claim "he knows more than any of us" and that must mean he has a vision as a GM, but this guy's "vision" 12 months ago was that we needed to get rid of cheap outs on our roster, have guys that worked counts and didnt give away at bats. 12 months later and thats completely out the window as he goes on a desperate search because we supposedly need "power outfielder", and lands a strike out machine with a terrible OBP... and at a cost of more prospects. He also gets this infatuation with sinkerball pitchers because they keep the ball in the park, goes and acquires some while horribly overpaying. 12 months later he does yet another complete reversal and signs and aging player who gives up the most home runs in baseball.

People on here complain about our inability to compete with the Dodgers because of money, but there are competitive teams at every salary level in the league (and its not like the Dodgers have won anything anyway). Towers is doing more to cripple this team's finances than any opposition is. We have an insane portion of our payroll tied up in mediocre players and the back end of our rotation. Success is sustained by building from within, Towers does not abide by that philosophy. This is also a good place to note that in San Diego he also horribly managed their minor league system, bringing through very little home grown talent and traded blossoming talent for guys who were much older and almost instantly worse than what they were traded for (Jason Bay for Brian Giles), and drafted the worst #1 pick in league history.

Between the complete lack of secrecy in negotiations, how often struggling players and former players get thrown under the bus by this organization... and the completely absurd campaign to "bean more hitters", there has been a serious lack of professionalism from this organization.

Go ahead, claim its all just bias that causes my hate, but Towers has a track record that is very ugly. And as much as I rip him, bias works both ways. Anyone who can somehow praise BOTH Heath Bell moves has no room to accuse others of bias.