Did Arians stunt the growth of Cardinal Rookies?

[Dback Jon]

With his two practice field setup, refusal to play most rookies?

I know there was some success (DJ, Budda Baker), but all in all the rookies drafted when BA was coaching have under performed.

It will be interesting to see how the ones left fare under Coach Wilkes system, which eliminated the "Rookie" field

 

[NJCardFan]

Make no mistake. Had Chris Johnson not gotten hurt we might not have ever seen the best of DJ as a rookie.


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[Dback Jon]

Make no mistake. Had Chris Johnson not gotten hurt we might not have ever seen the best of DJ as a rookie.


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Very true.

 

[unseenaz]

Make no mistake. Had Chris Johnson not gotten hurt we might not have ever seen the best of DJ as a rookie.


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So true. This is the only thing that gives me hope for chad Williams

 

[Redneck Voodoo]

I'd always deferred to BA on this subject but I have to be honest, I would've liked to see more of what the rookies could do.

I can't / won't argue with his success -- I guess only time will tell. How's that for a non-committal answer?

 

[Ronin]

I can't / won't argue with his success -- I guess only time will tell. How's that for a non-committal answer?

That will be my answer to the question as well.

 

[Dback Jon]

I'd always deferred to BA on this subject but I have to be honest, I would've liked to see more of what the rookies could do.

I can't / won't argue with his success -- I guess only time will tell. How's that for a non-committal answer?

but could he have had MORE success if he wasn't so stubborn? He did best using players drafted/developed by others. Then as vets were replaced, and draftees were expected to contribute (second, third years) they didn't.

 

[Garthshort]

Don't understand why the "two fields" were a bad thing. Seemed like a good thing to me.

 

[MadCardDisease]

With his two practice field setup, refusal to play most rookies?

I know there was some success (DJ, Budda Baker), but all in all the rookies drafted when BA was coaching have under performed.

It will be interesting to see how the ones left fare under Coach Wilkes system, which eliminated the "Rookie" field

I don't think so. Several rookies had impactful seasons under BA:

Mathieu
Andre Ellington
Bucannon
John Brown
Jaron Brown
David Johnson
Rodney Gunter
Budda Baker

 

[kerouac9]

With his two practice field setup, refusal to play most rookies?

I know there was some success (DJ, Budda Baker), but all in all the rookies drafted when BA was coaching have under performed.

It will be interesting to see how the ones left fare under Coach Wilkes system, which eliminated the "Rookie" field

With two practice fields, rookies got more reps than they would if they were only on one. During drills and stuff, only a small amount of coaching happens. The real work and technique training happens in the film room later, when coaches can individually break down the position group.

2013's draft class:
Jonathan Cooper was injured his entire rookie year.
Meanwhile, would you have rather seen Kevin Minter's rookie season, or Daryl Washington and Karlos Dansby?
Tyrann Mathieu played 77% of the defensive snaps before ending up on IR for the last three games of the year
Alex Okafor didn't play much, but he wasn't very good, anyway.
Earl Watford sat the bench, but our OL was healthy pretty much all season.
Meanwhile, Andre Ellington had almost 40% of offensive snaps.

2014 draft class:
Deone Bucannon played 65% of the defensive snaps.
Troy Niklas was injured for 10 games, but was on the field for almost 10% of the offensive snaps.
Kareem Martin and Ed Stintson both played about 20% of the defensive snaps as rookies.
John Brown played 62% of the offensive snaps.

2015 draft class:
Knee-deep
Markus Golden played over 48% of the defensive snaps in a rotation with Alex Okafor, who developed into a played who was signed as a free agent.
David Johnson was used strategically as he developed into a guy who could block sometimes.
Rodney Gunter played 43% of defensive snaps(!).
Did Shaq Reddick make the team? Was he injured all year?
J.J. Nelson found his way to over 13% of offensive snaps in a loaded WR room.

2016 draft class:
'Diche played fewer than 10% of snaps
Brandon Williams somehow played over 22% of snaps despite from all indications never having played football before.
Evan Boehm had more than 10% of snaps.

It should be a gift if anyone after the 4th round contributes in a meaningful way as a rookie (outside of running backs). This is such a weird smear on Arians that I don't really understand and isn't supported by evidence.

 

[BigRedRage]

2 fields was more work for the young guys, I don't see any problem with it.

 

[TruColor]

Brandon Williams somehow played over 22% of snaps despite from all indications never having played football before.

This made me laugh.

 

[Cardiac]

Make no mistake. Had Chris Johnson not gotten hurt we might not have ever seen the best of DJ as a rookie.


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Did you miss or forget about BA telling MB & SK in the "All or Nothing show" that DJ would explode onto the scene by Thanksgiving as he was still learning.

 

[oaken1]

IMO we have suffered from piss poor oline coaching over the BA tenure... but BA's only guilt in that is his loyalty to goodwin...he brought in lots of buddies for a good'ol boy run and unfortunately the game had passed a few of them by...most notably oline and special teams.

 

[Jim Otis]

IMO we have suffered from piss poor oline coaching over the BA tenure... but BA's only guilt in that is his loyalty to goodwin...he brought in lots of buddies for a good'ol boy run and unfortunately the game had passed a few of them by...most notably oline and special teams.

I agree with your post !

 

[Dr. Jones]

Loyalties to horrible coaches on the O-Line and Special Teams really put us back. IMO though.... we dont draft nearly as well as Keim gets credit for.

 

[kerouac9]

Harold Goodwin was 40 when he was hired with the Cards.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Remember what Cole Toner said when he got to the Bengals? He said something to the effect that he was finally learning technique...

 

[kerouac9]

Remember what Cole Toner said when he got to the Bengals? He said something to the effect that he was finally learning technique...

He was with the Bengals for 25 days.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He was with the Bengals for 25 days.

Yes, but that's what he said.

 

[kerouac9]

Yes, but that's what he said.

I can’t find evidence of that. Link?

 

[Capital Card]

IMO we have suffered from piss poor oline coaching over the BA tenure... but BA's only guilt in that is his loyalty to goodwin...he brought in lots of buddies for a good'ol boy run and unfortunately the game had passed a few of them by...most notably oline and special teams.

Special Teams took a noticeable step backwards during BA's first season, and only regressed from there.

Both the Offense and Defense improved significantly under BA leading to a magical 2015 season.

Not sure what all to expect from the new regime. My guess is that ST will show a dramatic improvement (how can it not). There is no way, IMO, the Offense matches our 2015 season. We are just going to play much more conservatively then a BA called game. I also expect a pretty big step backwards for the Defense as I think the talent on that side of the ball has regressed too much to finish in the top 10 yards/points/game.

I think over the next 2-3 years, we'll be competitive enough to hang around for a shot at a WC berth, but if we manage to get it, not be able to make much noise in the play-offs.

Go Cards.

 

[oaken1]

Special Teams took a noticeable step backwards during BA's first season, and only regressed from there.

Both the Offense and Defense improved significantly under BA leading to a magical 2015 season.

Not sure what all to expect from the new regime. My guess is that ST will show a dramatic improvement (how can it not). There is no way, IMO, the Offense matches our 2015 season. We are just going to play much more conservatively then a BA called game. I also expect a pretty big step backwards for the Defense as I think the talent on that side of the ball has regressed too much to finish in the top 10 yards/points/game.

I think over the next 2-3 years, we'll be competitive enough to hang around for a shot at a WC berth, but if we manage to get it, not be able to make much noise in the play-offs.

Go Cards.

yeah... that is my fear as well. going 8-8...up to 10-6 with a WC,.. but not being good enough to finish out.... thats why I aint gonna stress too much if this years tough schedule bites us in the ass...having a top 3 pick, while already having a QBOF in the mix...could yield huge dividends... a dominant DT or MLB could make a huge difference in this defense...

just suxx that right now so much of it is just wait and see.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I can’t find evidence of that. Link?

I remember him saying that as well. Now, whether or not that had any bearing on why he did not excel with the Cards or possibly stunt his growth as a player and he could not then make up the learning curve to compete in Cincy remains to be seen. I personally feel when a young player, especially one who does not have a high draft selection mystique to increase his chances, starts talking like that, they are reaching for excuses why they might not have what it takes to be a pro

 

[Finito]

With his two practice field setup, refusal to play most rookies?

I know there was some success (DJ, Budda Baker), but all in all the rookies drafted when BA was coaching have under performed.

It will be interesting to see how the ones left fare under Coach Wilkes system, which eliminated the "Rookie" field

This isn't really true at all.