Did Matt Williams prove my point for any of you?

[AzKarl]

Again folks this is not about bashing the guy but instead is about putting our best players on the field. For those of us who witnessed the pathetic strike out with a 3-2 count, bases loaded and no one out, is there any doubt that Matt is done as a viable offensive force? Now those of you who say look at his defense. What happened last night? Look, Matt is a good person I'm sure but, his presence on this team is hurting us by keeping the he players who deserve to play on the bench or in Tucson. Enough is enough. Garagiola must act.

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by AzKarl
Again folks this is not about bashing the guy but instead is about putting our best players on the field. For those of us who witnessed the pathetic strike out with a 3-2 count, bases loaded and no one out, is there any doubt that Matt is done as a viable offensive force? Now those of you who say look at his defense. What happened last night? Look, Matt is a good person I'm sure but, his presence on this team is hurting us by keeping the he players who deserve to play on the bench or in Tucson. Enough is enough. Garagiola must act.

Actually, it proves DWKB's point - Matt should not batt against righties....

 

[Smolder]

just because it proves DWKB's point doesn't mean it legitimizes azkarl's point any less. they are, in fact, both right. get matty out of there. we don't need him. he's more trouble than he's worth...

 

[moviegeekjn]

Originally posted by Smolder
just because it proves DWKB's point doesn't mean it legitimizes azkarl's point any less. they are, in fact, both right. get matty out of there. we don't need him. he's more trouble than he's worth...

Illogical and dead wrong!

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by Smolder
just because it proves DWKB's point doesn't mean it legitimizes azkarl's point any less. they are, in fact, both right. get matty out of there. we don't need him. he's more trouble than he's worth...

What would you do with Matt? Cut him and just eat his $10 million?

And who will replace this against lefties?

333 10 21 5 7 1 0 1 3 2 1 0 0 0 1 .375 .524 .899

 

[Cland]

I missed the first half of the game but I heard he made a great play in the field to save a run. At that time it was a close game.
I can't figure out why that was left out.???

I can see the responses that I'm going to get already: "we won by 4 runs, therefore the fact that he saved a run with his glove is meaningless."

 

[AzKarl]

Originally posted by Cland
I missed the first half of the game but I heard he made a great play in the field to save a run. At that time it was a close game.
I can't figure out why that was left out.???

I can see the responses that I'm going to get already: "we won by 4 runs, therefore the fact that he saved a run with his glove is meaningless."

Matt makes an occasional great play in the field, Happy? He also boots ground balls and throws balls over the firstbaseman's head. If you guys are happy with that live with his rally killing performances. I propose the following.

1) the Dbacks bench him unless the pitcher is left handed.

2) The front office proposes a buyout of his remaining contract by escalating the payment of some of his deferred money.

3) they send him to the minors to find his hitting stroke and if he refuses to report he is a free agent and we're off the hook.

4) Any combination of the above.

Don't know about you all but Matt is done and can't get it through his rather hard head

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by Cland
I missed the first half of the game but I heard he made a great play in the field to save a run. At that time it was a close game.
I can't figure out why that was left out.???

I can see the responses that I'm going to get already: "we won by 4 runs, therefore the fact that he saved a run with his glove is meaningless."

Sorry, Cland, but the response you're going to get is . . .

. . . And he threw the ball over the 1B head to let in a run, in the same game!

That averages out to . . . average! Maybe that's why you both left it out.

Matty gives, and Matty takes away! With a .180 batting average, he mainly takes away.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Damnit, I was going to try to not respond to Matty posts for awhile!

 

[AZZenny]

LOL - My poor dog is becoming classically conditioned - when she hears the announcers say "Matt Williams" she runs for cover, because she knows I will soon be SCREAMING and cursing at the television and stomping around in a fit. But - this year he has a ton of company.

 

[az240zz]

Originally posted by AzKarl
Matt makes an occasional great play in the field, Happy? He also boots ground balls and throws balls over the firstbaseman's head. If you guys are happy with that live with his rally killing performances. I propose the following.

1) the Dbacks bench him unless the pitcher is left handed.

2) The front office proposes a buyout of his remaining contract by escalating the payment of some of his deferred money.

3) they send him to the minors to find his hitting stroke and if he refuses to report he is a free agent and we're off the hook.

4) Any combination of the above.

Don't know about you all but Matt is done and can't get it through his rather hard head

I agree but with Brenly as Manager i don't think it will happen.

az240z

 

[Cland]

Originally posted by BC867

Damnit, I was going to try to not respond to Matty posts for awhile!

I'll believe that when I see it.

Yeah I was just reading that he threw one away. Like I said I missed the beginning of the game but I heard he made a great play in the field and not surprisingly that wasn't brought up. I think it’s ridiculous that this much time is spent arguing over matty. This will be my last post on him.

 

[Dback Jon]

Oh AZKARL.......

 

[CatBoxBackFan]

When the going gets tough,the tough gets going. AZKARL come out of your bunker

 

[schillingfan]

Mike Lieberthal should be shot for calling for a curve ball on an 0-2 pitch to Matty. He can't hit fastballs any more, but he can still put a mistake out of the park.

 

[AzKarl]

Originally posted by CatBoxBackFan
When the going gets tough,the tough gets going. AZKARL come out of your bunker

I am not in any bunker. Matt Williams had one great game. When he puts more than one in a row talk to me. I still maintain he's done and invite you to talk to me at the end of the season when we can discuss his performance at $10 million per year.

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by AzKarl
I am not in any bunker. Matt Williams had one great game. When he puts more than one in a row talk to me. I still maintain he's done and invite you to talk to me at the end of the season when we can discuss his performance at $10 million per year.

I would be happy to discuss his or any one else's performance for $10 million.

 

[unc84steve]

Unlike the NFL, MLB has guarenteed contracts. When you sign a player for $45 million over 5 years from an accounting point of view, it's nuts to think you're going to get production in proportion to the paycheck.

In other words, if Matt Williams were getting paid $9 million every year, it still would be silly to have expected he'd be playing equally as well in 2003 as he was in 1999 right? From an "accounting" viewpoint, Matt could have been paid his $45 as follows:

1999: $16 M
2000: $13 M
2001: $9 M
2002: $5 M
2003: $2 M

This would have reflected his "depreciation" to the club. Of course he'd have been grossly overpaid in every year--but that's the club's fault--not Matt Williams.

 

[FORKTUNG]

Well with Counsell out for 3+ months who do you propose playing 3rd base?

Cintron?
Bring up Tracy?
Baerga?

 

[unc84steve]

IMO, a platoon of Matt Williams & Chad Tracy would be ideal. They have complementary characteristics; listing Matty first, Chad second

Right-handed vs. Lefty hitter
Solid Gold Glove Fielder vs. Still error-prone @ AAA
Power hitter vs. Singles/Doubles
Experienced vs. Youngster

In terms of a "mentoring" model--Matt Williams literally defines "ballplayer." He already is the illustration for "Third baseman" in the Baseball Dictionary.

In order to clear the roster spot, Tony Womack needs to be traded or designated for assignment to Tucson. Tony's $6 million salary is gone. Let's use some logic.

Let's say the club offers to pick up all of Tony's $6 M. salary in order to trade him. All of it. Just to clear the roster spot and get rid of the DP's & caught stealings. One would assume we could get something for Tony. I'm not sure we could.

So we "designate him for assignment." As a MLB veteran, Tony would have the right to refuse assignment to Tucson--just like Jose Guillen did last year. Tony would be free to sign anywhere else with the D'backs obligated to pay off his contract. Then Tony Womack would be another team's problem. He also could become another team's "Craig Counsell" if & when he turned it around with a fresh start.

I'd be willing to take that chance. I also think he'd end up in Tucson and could get AB's that don't cost us MLB outs & games to turn things around.

 

[AZZenny]

Awww, c'mon Steve! Poor Al Pedrique! Give the guy a break - First we make him take Swindell, then Tony? We scuttle off with Webb, Good, Capuano and Villareal, after the guy was told he'd have the best starting rotation in Triple-A?? Tsk.

I'm with you completely - you pay 'em, you don't have to play 'em - nor do you have to give them a warm spot on the bench. But Tony is a very proud guy, he is openly irritated at the club right now, so who knows, because they've basically said you'll see some action after the ASB, maybe, when you typically get hot. Meanwhile, it's up to Cintron to prove he's not just a AAA-wunderkind again. I am pulling for him.

And I don't mind the mentoring idea - Tracy might really benefit - I think Overbay's defense has definitely gone up a big step and you can sort of see Grace's style in it sometimes. Btw, Grace's horizontal flyover nab a couple games ago was vintage.

 

[schillingfan]

Steve, I believe that if Tony was designated for assignment and he refused that the D-Backs would be out from under his contract. He's not a 10 and 5 guy, so I don't think that comes into effect.

Tony would be crazy to refuse the assignment. However, the more likely scenario would be that some other team picks him up off the waivers for the DFA because I believe they would only be liable for the $300,000 major league minimum, though I'm not positive about that.

 

[unc84steve]

Schillingfan, I think you're right about the transaction rule. Those always puzzle me.

Houston tried to designate pitcher Bruce Chen for assignment to its AAA team in New Orleans. The BoSox put in a claim for the 26 year old lefty despite his reputation for being uncoachable. (He's already gone through 4 of the 5 NL East teams as well as Cinci.) (I never knew he was born in Panama.).

I think there's a better market for lefties with good stuff, than base-stealers with a reputation as good second half hitters.

In a slightly-related note, the Cubs had a chance to call up Iowa 3rd-baseman Dave Kelton when Sammy Sosa went on the 15-day DL. Mark Bellhorn has been struggling, but Kelton, also is a bit error-prone. The obvious differences are the Cubs are in 1st place & can justify calling up a 12th pitcher instead (to let Kelton get full time play at Iowa).

I confess I have both Chad Tracy & Dave Kelton on my roto team, so I'd like to see them get AB's--to help 2 of my favorite "real teams", my 2003 roto team, & to see if they will fit into future plans of all of the above.


Link to Bruce Chen's baseball reference page

 

[Forrestham]

Originally posted by schillingfan
Steve, I believe that if Tony was designated for assignment and he refused that the D-Backs would be out from under his contract. He's not a 10 and 5 guy, so I don't think that comes into effect.

Tony would be crazy to refuse the assignment. However, the more likely scenario would be that some other team picks him up off the waivers for the DFA because I believe they would only be liable for the $300,000 major league minimum, though I'm not positive about that.

Schillingfan if you are right this should be a no brainer for the Dbacks if there is some team foolish enough to pick up that contract it is good for the Dbacks. Womack has no position to complain about being benched and he is a smart guy and should know that. I am not losing sleep about him walking (he never walks) on another team and being another Counsell.

Cintron needs to play for 2 weeks straight good or bad to be given a fair shot. Not in the leadoff spot. The team has and excellent farm system and these players are the future.

 

[schillingfan]

Forrestham, I inartfully worded my response. When I said "they" I didn't mean the D-Backs, I meant the team picking him up would only be responsible for the major league minimum.

That's the problem with DFAing someone and having to put him through waivers, that some other team can pick him up for the minimum and you end up paying the person to play for someone else.

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by schillingfan
Forrestham, I inartfully worded my response. When I said "they" I didn't mean the D-Backs, I meant the team picking him up would only be responsible for the major league minimum.

That's the problem with DFAing someone and having to put him through waivers, that some other team can pick him up for the minimum and you end up paying the person to play for someone else.

Doesn't that also mean that you can replace him with a Minor Leaguer who'll get paid the ML minimum for the rest of the season?

In effect, having someone who will, hopefully, do an all-around better job (with a future), for the millions you would have spent anyway?

You're not saving money. You're just getting more out of your investment!