Disgruntled star watch

[sunsfan88]

Really? Hadn't heard that one. Durant would obviously be the top choice to pursue.

Yea but he's still a loyal guy so hard to imagine him demanding a trade. I think he just wanted them to improve the roster and is probably still mad about not amnestying Perkins to keep Harden

When asked his opinion about Oklahoma City’s offseason activity, Kevin Durant offered a three-word response: “I love it.”

Durant then walked away from the media, seemingly upset, while taking in the action at the Team USA minicamp in Las Vegas.

The Thunder let Kevin Martin go in free agency and lost out to the Memphis Grizzlies in the race to sign Mike Miller.

Miller was personally recruited by Durant.

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=9507645&src=desktop

 

[JCSunsfan]

this is a joke.....right?

Right.

 

[slinslin]

To anyone who thinks Love isn't a star. In the 2011-12 season he was 5th in the league in PER and 1st amongst PFs. He was also 4th in the league in WS that year.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

He is a fantasy star stat padder too bad he doesn't help his team win.

Tell me how a team could anually be among the worst in the league with a big man on the roster putting up some of the best raw stats.

 

[Phrazbit]

He is a fantasy star stat padder too bad he doesn't help his team win.

Tell me how a team could anually be among the worst in the league with a big man on the roster putting up some of the best raw stats.

Because he was surrounded by some of the leagues worst players... and they were starters for Minnesota. In 2012 after they let Love have the lions share of the offense their win rate doubled, and he was still playing along side Wes Johnson, Beasley and Ridnour, three of the worst starters (not to mention players) in the entire league.

Its hilarious that you championed Beasley and you're shooting down Kevin Love as an empty stat loser.

 

[BC867]

I hope Hornacek isn't this stupid. Your style should fit your best players, not the other way around.

Absolutely!!! That was John MacLeod's downfall as Suns Coach. We never took the final step to legitimate Championship contender because the coach forced the players to confine themselves to his narrow style.

If they didn't, he got JC to move them, even if they were tough, proven Champions like Dennis Johnson and Maurice Lucas.

I, too, am hoping that Horny learned more from Cotton, who tried to break the mold as opposed to coaches like MacLeod and Jerry Sloan, who were satisfied with a winning record at home during the regular season.

 

[Mainstreet]

Absolutely!!! That was John MacLeod's downfall as Suns Coach. We never took the final step to legitimate Championship contender because the coach forced the players to confine themselves to his narrow style.

If they didn't, he got JC to move them, even if they were tough, proven Champions like Dennis Johnson and Maurice Lucas.

I, too, am hoping that Horny learned more from Cotton, who tried to break the mold as opposed to coaches like MacLeod and Jerry Sloan, who were satisfied with a winning record at home during the regular season.

I agree, John McLeod had a definite system of rotating players and demanding a certain style of play which I considered too rigid.

However, it is important to find players that fit the coach's style of play. Luckily, the Suns are in position to bring in players that fit Hornacek's coaching style rather than inherit a team that cannot play an uptempo game.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree, John McLeod had a definite system of rotating players and demanding a certain style of play which I considered too rigid.

However, it is important to find players that fit the coach's style of play. Luckily, the Suns are in position to bring in players that fit Hornacek's coaching style rather than inherit a team that cannot play an uptempo game.

I didn't really have a problem with the way he forced players into a system, all coaches do that to one degree or another. My issue with John was his strict substitution patterns. Westy would nail five straight and McLeod would take him out because his minutes were up.

Steve

 

[BC867]

My issue with John was his strict substitution patterns. Westy would nail five straight and McLeod would take him out because his minutes were up.

You hit it right on the head, Steve. No matter how hot you were, when your "allotted minutes" were up, you hit the bench.

I often wondered if Jerry ever discussed that with MacLeod. Apparently not.

Even more than a skill set, the players' demeanor was what got them playing time. "Obedient" players like Alvan Adams, Alvin Scott, Joel Kramer. Nice guys, but not the type who make things happen. Probably the "wildest" of his boys was the Kamikaze Kid, Ron Lee, who dived for loose balls. Whoopee!

 

[elindholm]

However, it is important to find players that fit the coach's style of play.

I strongly disagree with this. The coach's style should fit the players he has; the entire point of coaching is to maximize the performance of your personnel. If Hornacek turns out to be an "uptempo coach," that will be very disappointing. I prefer to believe that he thinks an uptempo game is the best fit for the Suns' current roster, and so that's what he's going to try to have them do.

 

[Mainstreet]

I didn't really have a problem with the way he forced players into a system, all coaches do that to one degree or another. My issue with John was his strict substitution patterns. Westy would nail five straight and McLeod would take him out because his minutes were up.

Steve

Very true. This is what I meant by his system of rotating players or what was called platooning.

 

[BC867]

I strongly disagree with this. The coach's style should fit the players he has; the entire point of coaching is to maximize the performance of your personnel. If Hornacek turns out to be an "uptempo coach," that will be very disappointing. I prefer to believe that he thinks an uptempo game is the best fit for the Suns' current roster, and so that's what he's going to try to have them do.

That is why it is so important for the GM to set the tone and hire a flexible coach. I believe that Cotton was our most flexible coach, with MacLeod and D'Antoni the most pig-headed.

Of course, the best coach (or Manager within industry) is one who can recognize and use the skills of his "employees" and minimize their shortcomings, considering that all people have strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Mainstreet]

I strongly disagree with this. The coach's style should fit the players he has; the entire point of coaching is to maximize the performance of your personnel. If Hornacek turns out to be an "uptempo coach," that will be very disappointing. I prefer to believe that he thinks an uptempo game is the best fit for the Suns' current roster, and so that's what he's going to try to have them do.

What I was trying to point out, the Suns are in the situation where they can build a team with a coaching style in mind. Essentially they are building the Suns foundation. I do think Hornacek wants to coach an uptempo team. They have gone after these type players under McDonough. It's no secret the Suns want to run the basketball. This does not mean Hornacek cannot modify the strategy to fit the strength of particular players on his roster or ignore defense. The Suns look like a running team to me as they are being constructed.

I think your point would be better founded if Hornacek had inherited a team like last year's Lakers and ignored the talent on that team and tried to force a different style on them and ignoring the inside game of Howard and Gasol.

 

[elindholm]

What I was trying to point out, the Suns are in the situation where they can build a team with a coaching style in mind. Essentially they are building the Suns foundation. I do think Hornacek wants to coach an uptempo team. They have gone after these type players under McDonough. It's no secret the Suns want to run the basketball. This does not mean Hornacek cannot modify the strategy to fit the strength of particular players on his roster or ignore defense. The Suns look like a running team to me as they are being constructed.

I don't agree that the Suns are "being constructed" at all. Almost no one on the current roster will still be with the team by the time they're relevant again; the only possible exceptions are Bledsoe, Goodwin, and Len, in that order, and I'd regard them all as long shots. Losing teams don't have identities except for being bad. What's Orlando's identity, or Cleveland's, or Charlotte's? Their identity is that they suck, period.

When the Suns will become good again, it will be because they somehow managed to acquire a franchise-reviving talent -- which they sure as heck haven't done yet. Then it will make sense to talk about their style, and what the coaching staff's vision is, and whatever else. Until then, they're just trying to put together a moderately entertaining product while waiting for the calendar pages to flip over.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't agree that the Suns are "being constructed" at all. Almost no one on the current roster will still be with the team by the time they're relevant again; the only possible exceptions are Bledsoe, Goodwin, and Len, in that order, and I'd regard them all as long shots. Losing teams don't have identities except for being bad. What's Orlando's identity, or Cleveland's, or Charlotte's? Their identity is that they suck, period.

When the Suns will become good again, it will be because they somehow managed to acquire a franchise-reviving talent -- which they sure as heck haven't done yet. Then it will make sense to talk about their style, and what the coaching staff's vision is, and whatever else. Until then, they're just trying to put together a moderately entertaining product while waiting for the calendar pages to flip over.

Like most things in life, things evolve as they develop. It's better to start with a strategy. Who knows what the Suns will look like when they are good again. There used to be a time the Suns drafted players that turned into stars like Nash, Marion, Amare, and Larry Nance. Maybe the way to look at it, one can start a ranch with the idea it can be expanded. I don't like the idea the Suns should wait to find a star before forming an identity. It's better than wandering around. If by chance the Suns find a star that gives them a new identity, then go with it.

 

[elindholm]

I don't like the idea the Suns should wait to find a star before forming an identity. It's better than wandering around. If by chance the Suns find a star that gives them a new identity, then go with it.

That's fine, but then the identity shouldn't be "uptempo team." We all know that an uptempo team is at a disadvantage come playoff time, because the excessive fouling that is permitted slows down most attempts to run. So if the Suns are going to go ahead and take a stab at a long-term identity now, it might as well be one that will be rewarded by the officials when the games really matter. Instead, they're establishing an identity that fits an irrelevant roster of players who will be distant memories by the time the Suns ever go deep into the playoffs again. It's like investing a lot of energy redecorating a crummy apartment that you took between jobs, knowing that you'll leave the first chance you get, in a style that you don't even like.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's fine, but then the identity shouldn't be "uptempo team." We all know that an uptempo team is at a disadvantage come playoff time, because the excessive fouling that is permitted slows down most attempts to run. So if the Suns are going to go ahead and take a stab at a long-term identity now, it might as well be one that will be rewarded by the officials when the games really matter. Instead, they're establishing an identity that fits an irrelevant roster of players who will be distant memories by the time the Suns ever go deep into the playoffs again. It's like investing a lot of energy redecorating a crummy apartment that you took between jobs, knowing that you'll leave the first chance you get, in a style that you don't even like.

I enjoy uptempo basketball. There is no reason a running team can't execute a half court offense in the playoffs or play defense. Fast break basketball is basically designed to take advantage of opposing defenses before they set up. I'm just not too keen on slowing it down with the athletic teams in the league at least during the regular season. If the Suns have an athletic team that can run, I don't see how it hurts. Now if the Suns can't execute a half court offense, then you have a point.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I enjoy uptempo basketball. There is no reason a running team can't execute a half court offense in the playoffs or play defense. Fast break basketball is basically designed to take advantage of opposing defenses before they set up. I'm just not too keen on slowing it down with the athletic teams in the league at least during the regular season. If the Suns have an athletic team that can run, I don't see how it hurts. Now if the Suns can't execute a half court offense, then you have a point.

What a remarkably sensible post!

 

[Errntknght]

That's fine, but then the identity shouldn't be "uptempo team." We all know that an uptempo team is at a disadvantage come playoff time, because the excessive fouling that is permitted slows down most attempts to run. So if the Suns are going to go ahead and take a stab at a long-term identity now, it might as well be one that will be rewarded by the officials when the games really matter. Instead, they're establishing an identity that fits an irrelevant roster of players who will be distant memories by the time the Suns ever go deep into the playoffs again. It's like investing a lot of energy redecorating a crummy apartment that you took between jobs, knowing that you'll leave the first chance you get, in a style that you don't even like.

I agree with the premise that you should target a style that succeeds in the playoffs. That doesn't preclude 'uptempo' but it does preclude 'finesse' teams, which the Suns have a historical tendency toward and precludes teams that play poor defense, another tendency of ours. I don't like the term 'uptempo' because it connotes D'Antoni's style where defense isn't important as long as you keep the tempo high. (Also some of the old run and gun teams like Denver and Phoenix.) I like 'fast break' which it was called in the heyday of the Celtics under Auerbach and the somewhat more recent showtime Lakers. None of those teams worried about tempo of the other team - as long as they beat them back on defense.

Auerbach always said the the keys to fast break basketball were rebounding and defense - because you can't run if you don't have the ball and it slows you down if you have to take the ball out the net. Hopefully, that is the thinking of Hornacek and McD... if they have anything resembling D'Antoni's SSOL in mind, I'll throw in the towel on the NBA - that is nauseating to watch. (Ten minutes of the All-Star game once every few years gives me my fill of that kind of basketball.)

 

[Covert Rain]

That's fine, but then the identity shouldn't be "uptempo team." We all know that an uptempo team is at a disadvantage come playoff time, because the excessive fouling that is permitted slows down most attempts to run. So if the Suns are going to go ahead and take a stab at a long-term identity now, it might as well be one that will be rewarded by the officials when the games really matter. Instead, they're establishing an identity that fits an irrelevant roster of players who will be distant memories by the time the Suns ever go deep into the playoffs again. It's like investing a lot of energy redecorating a crummy apartment that you took between jobs, knowing that you'll leave the first chance you get, in a style that you don't even like.

I think "uptempo team" is usually code speak for small ball.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He is a fantasy star stat padder too bad he doesn't help his team win.

Tell me how a team could anually be among the worst in the league with a big man on the roster putting up some of the best raw stats.

couldn't you ask the same question about KG during his last two years in Minnesota when they won 32 games in back to back seasons?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't agree that the Suns are "being constructed" at all. Almost no one on the current roster will still be with the team by the time they're relevant again; the only possible exceptions are Bledsoe, Goodwin, and Len, in that order, and I'd regard them all as long shots. Losing teams don't have identities except for being bad. What's Orlando's identity, or Cleveland's, or Charlotte's? Their identity is that they suck, period.

When the Suns will become good again, it will be because they somehow managed to acquire a franchise-reviving talent -- which they sure as heck haven't done yet. Then it will make sense to talk about their style, and what the coaching staff's vision is, and whatever else. Until then, they're just trying to put together a moderately entertaining product while waiting for the calendar pages to flip over.

completely agree with all of this.

 

[Superbone]

I enjoy uptempo basketball. There is no reason a running team can't execute a half court offense in the playoffs or play defense. Fast break basketball is basically designed to take advantage of opposing defenses before they set up. I'm just not too keen on slowing it down with the athletic teams in the league at least during the regular season. If the Suns have an athletic team that can run, I don't see how it hurts. Now if the Suns can't execute a half court offense, then you have a point.

Thank you. Both the Celtics and Lakers have won championships with up tempo teams.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Thank you. Both the Celtics and Lakers have won championships with up tempo teams.

I didn't watch a lot of this year's playoffs but it seemed like every time I listened to them they commented on the fact that Miami (and San Antonio IIRC) had switched to an uptempo team. There is nothing wrong with uptempo basketball, it can succeed on the court and obviously it succeeds with the viewing public too. You don't have to play small and you don't have to treat defense like a disease when you play fast.

Steve

 

[slinslin]

couldn't you ask the same question about KG during his last two years in Minnesota when they won 32 games in back to back seasons?

No you could not ?

KG was a MVP, best player on many 50 win teams, been to the playoffs a bunch of times..

Kevin Love has been a loser his entire career so far.

 

[Neo]

Aldridge doesn't fit Hornacek's style.

Horny probably looks at Love and sees Tom Chambers without the athleticism.

I strongly agree with Eric on the idea of whether or not the coach should change his style to match his players or should seek out players to match his style. A competent coach should be able to adapt his strategy to the tools he has.

Besides that, my issue is this: how on earth does anyone know what is Hornacek's style? The only thing he has ever been the head coach for is Summer League. That is hardly the place to determine that a player is incompatible with a coach. Hornacek has given some insights into his philosophy based upon how he coached the summer league and the interviews he has give, but he is still an unknown quantity. Nobody knows for certain how he will coach an NBA regular season team.