Draft Update: I Think We're Going to Trade Down

[RugbyMuffin]

Teams that are interested in trading up that I have heard of:

- Atlanta (currently picking 30th)
- San Fransisco (currently picking 31st)
- Miami (currently picking 12th)


If we trade with Atlanta, or San Fransisco we are going to be practically sacrificing a 1st round talent for two 2nd round talents, and a late 2nd rounder.

Which would be OK. We can probably get a good safety and pass rusher with the top two picks, and with the later 2nd round pick, and top of the 3rd get some offensive line depth.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Teams that are interested in trading up that I have heard of:

- Atlanta (currently picking 30th)
- San Fransisco (currently picking 31st)
- Miami (currently picking 12th)


If we trade with Atlanta, or San Fransisco we are going to be practically sacrificing a 1st round talent for two 2nd round talents, and a late 2nd rounder.

Which would be OK. We can probably get a good safety and pass rusher with the top two picks, and with the later 2nd round pick, and top of the 3rd get some offensive line depth.

The math says that it would cost Atlanta, San Fran a first round pick next year to get into the top 10.

 

[kerouac9]

I just read somewhere this week that McGinnis and Keim wanted Terrell Suggs but were overruled by the decision-makers.

There was a mod here named nidan who became very close to Rod Graves in McGinnis's last season here (ASFN had practice passes, as incredible that that may sound).

At the time of the trade (which I hated to the point that a thread I made about hating Calvin Pace made it back to the player), nidan repeated endlessly that we shouldn't hold Rod Graves responsible for the trade down, because it was out of his control, and Mac was going to get every opportunity to put his players together and on the field.

Honestly, that was three coaching staffs ago. I can barely get up the gumption to care about it. Mac sucked, Graves sucked.

 

[Chopper0080]

The math says that it would cost Atlanta, San Fran a first round pick next year to get into the top 10.

Normally I would agree with you, but with so many teams trying to trade down, market value decreases. More than likely, teams would get their 1st, maybe a 2nd at best, and possibly a late round pick as well.

 

[NJCardFan]

I just read somewhere this week that McGinnis and Keim wanted Terrell Suggs but were overruled by the decision-makers.

Ugh. If that's true...ugh. Imagine that draft with Suggs then Boldin. Yikes. Of course Suggs would have probably been gone before 2008. But just thinking about a defense with Berry, Dockett, Suggs, Dansby all a part of the front 7 would be scary.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Normally I would agree with you, but with so many teams trying to trade down, market value decreases. More than likely, teams would get their 1st, maybe a 2nd at best, and possibly a late round pick as well.

I can't see how you can say this before the fact. There will be trades come Thursday and we'll see whether they adhere to the points system.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Some thoughts...

-I now believe the Cardinals draft board is essentially Joeckel, Fisher, L Johnson and Dion Jordan. If these guys are gone, then trade down.

-I believe that trading up is a buyer's market. Don't expect to get a ton by trading down in this draft. Too many teams want to move down and too few want to move up.

-If you do trade down, you can probably throw out the idea of getting Cooper or Warmack. They might drop, but you can't count on it. That gets you Calvin Pace. The reason is that the teams most likely to trade up are probably in the 20's. Rams, Vikings, Colts, 49ers and Falcons. I would expect both OGs to be gone by then.

You can also forget about Fluker ( Cordy Glenn clone) in my opinion. I

bet my twin brother a case of beer he gets picked by San Diego or

Miami. If the Falcons offer us a package like the Browns got can

we resist that offer?

 

[Vermont Maverick]

Some thoughts...

-I now believe the Cardinals draft board is essentially Joeckel, Fisher, L Johnson and Dion Jordan. If these guys are gone, then trade down.

-I believe that trading up is a buyer's market. Don't expect to get a ton by trading down in this draft. Too many teams want to move down and too few want to move up.

I agree 100% with your board, and your buyer-market-moving-up theory. I think that Keim needs to at least consider a trade up. Last year, the Bucs gave up a 4th to move from 7 to 5. If Philly wants to move down so bad, would they consider moving down from 4 to 7 for that 4th? Maybe.

Consider the following scenerio.

1. KC - Joekel
2. JAC - Jordan
3. OAK - Shariff Floyd or anyone but Fisher/L. Johnson
4. PHI - ?

In that scenerio, it is very likely that Detroit goes with Fisher/Johnson at 5. Philly could do they same if they can't move. Cleveland could trade out with SD or Mia. Both tackles would like likely be gone by #7.

If we move up with a 4th (possible, again depending on how bad Philly wants to move), we not only get one of the tackles, we get our choice - probably Fisher.

 

[red desert]

I'm most excited for Draft Day because it'll mean the end of your Tavon Austin trolling.

My enthusiasm for TA as a player if off the charts. My belief that he is an option for us is real. The FACT that most if not all "experts" believe TA to be selected no later than the 16 pick, and more than half believe he will be surely gone in the top ten and rightfully so, establishes that my beliefs (and posts) are not an act of sheer folly.

Disagree. Great. But troll? I don't see it. There will be plenty of time later to blast me for my delusion, as you seem to think it is.

Believing and stating that the Cards will take an offensive lineman takes great courage and insight, doesn't it? We all know that's what they WILL PROBABLY select. I get it, bro. Not saying touting TA is in any way courageous, but that's what my eyes and heart tell me should occur. And stating that they might trade down is no more incredible of a thought that stating the a TE will be selected in the first 20 picks. After the Cards make said selection I'm certain you'll be on here touting how smart and insightful you are as being "message board smart" appears to be a burning desire of yours. Well then, carry on with your bad self...

 

[crisper57]

If we can move back and still grab warmack, cooper or jarvis jones SIGN ME UP! Especially if we can use the extra draft pick from moving back to trade for branden Albert

I don't think it can happen in that order. All reports are that Miami is in line to get Albert but that the Chiefs are waiting to see if anyone sweetens the pot for him or their first pick.

If we want him, we have to commit to that before the draft. If we wait to act until we are 7 rounds into the draft, I think Albert will already be on the move to Miami OR he will be staying in KC because the Chiefs traded out of the #1 spot.

 

[joeshmo]

Add some fuel to the fire.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/23/report-five-teams-in-top-12-want-to-move-down/

Notice a team missing from that list? It seem that usually the team that stays quiet about such things, is the team that these such things will end up happening for.

 

[JeffGollin]

I think trading down is far far from a given, but I wouldn't rule it out.

I believe that Keim and Arians have played out various Board scenarios where certain events at different points in the draft would trigger different strategies.

I have no idea of what their Board looks like but imagine that there are 3 - 4 guys we'd grab if they were still there at #7.

But if all these guys were gone, the Cards would go to Plan B and Plan B-1. Plan B would be to review our Board to determine how many remaining players we could be happy with (i.e. "red chippers") in round one. We'd then try to engineer a trade to a spot no farther down than the number of red chippers on our board. This would guarantee we'd still get someone we liked after we traded down.

Plan B -1 would be our default strategy in case a trade couldn't be worked out - to bite the bullet and take the BPA on our Board at #7 (even if we didn' love him).

Regarding which teams would or would not want to trade up with us (& or whether we wouldn't have to trade down too far) - Unless you're a mind-reader, there's no real way of knowing. A couple of teams may fall in love with Geno or Barkley. Or Eifert - considered all by himself as a TE prospect. Or there could be a run on corners. You just never know.

In the end, I'd set the odds of our trading out of #7 at around 30%. Fluker might make sense under that scenario, but the later you draft, the harder it is to predict whether he'd be there (or whether he'd be atop our board) when we picked.

 

[SO91]

I'll feel much better trading back knowing Graves isn't pulling the trigger. It would make sense to trade back.

I think the key guy is Tyler Eifert. Alot of teams, Atlanta being one, like him and, if he gets by Cleveland, they will be calling the Cards. T move back that far, the Cards can ask for Atl's 1 and 2 this year and a #1 next and may get it because the Falcons are on the brink of winning it all.

That would give the Cards a Demetruis Moore/ Datone Jones in round 1 with Brandon Albert traded for round 2 and then grab a safety like Eric Reid with Atlanta's 2nd this year and still have two first round picks next year.

Do you really think ATL would be willing to trade that many picks to move up, 2 years removed from trading up to take Julio Jones. They gave up a crap-ton of picks in that trade if I remember correctly. I know they're close and all, but that seems like a dumb move on their part.

 

[kerouac9]

I think trading down is far far from a given, but I wouldn't rule it out.

I believe that Keim and Arians have played out various Board scenarios where certain events at different points in the draft would trigger different strategies.

I have no idea of what their Board looks like but imagine that there are 3 - 4 guys we'd grab if they were still there at #7.

But if all these guys were gone, the Cards would go to Plan B and Plan B-1. Plan B would be to review our Board to determine how many remaining players we could be happy with (i.e. "red chippers") in round one. We'd then try to engineer a trade to a spot no farther down than the number of red chippers on our board. This would guarantee we'd still get someone we liked after we traded down.

Plan B -1 would be our default strategy in case a trade couldn't be worked out - to bite the bullet and take the BPA on our Board at #7 (even if we didn' love him).

Regarding which teams would or would not want to trade up with us (& or whether we wouldn't have to trade down too far) - Unless you're a mind-reader, there's no real way of knowing. A couple of teams may fall in love with Geno or Barkley. Or Eifert - considered all by himself as a TE prospect. Or there could be a run on corners. You just never know.

In the end, I'd set the odds of our trading out of #7 at around 30%. Fluker might make sense under that scenario, but the later you draft, the harder it is to predict whether he'd be there (or whether he'd be atop our board) when we picked.

So many words, so little content. What is this supposed to add to the conversation? "We don't know what Keim and Arians are thinking." Profound knowledge there, Jeff.

 

[JeffGollin]

So many words, so little content. What is this supposed to add to the conversation? "We don't know what Keim and Arians are thinking." Profound knowledge there, Jeff.

Hey K-9: Who appointed you Editor? And who let you go off your meds?

I have a right to my opinion that there IS no profound knowledge - only profound OPINION (despite how brilliant you profess to be).

My contribution to the conversation is that process is more important than actual fact here since even the Cardinal brass doesn't have a lock on what they're going to do (because there are too many unknown factors beyond their control).

The relevance - of pointing out that we don't know what BA and Keim are thinking - is that you and a few others here seem to think that you do (& you don't).

 

[Mulli]

The Unknown
As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know.
—Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing


May start posting this in all mock drafts.

 

[desertdawg]

If we trade down we better do it right. Not this trade back a couple plops. We aint smarter than the rest of the NFL, no one will give us a buttload of picks that makes our draft amazing.

We gotta do it right. Trade the picks to shiddy ass teams that will draft early next year, for their early draft picks....next year. Get us another 1st and second for next year for our first this year. Get us a second and a third (next year) for our second round pick (this year). Top teams usually be getting these types of picks through trades, but we can do it this year in the draft.

I aint on the Albert wagon, too costy, but if we did snap him up we could seriously dangle some trade bait on Thursday. We could seriously assess our team under it's new staff, and really dial in what we want...and have a "plethora" of picks in 2014 to get whatever our hearts desire. All I really need is a fat guy and someone to go after the QB.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[red desert]

Hey K-9: Who appointed you Editor? And who let you go off your meds?

I have a right to my opinion that there IS no profound knowledge - only profound OPINION (despite how brilliant you profess to be).

My contribution to the conversation is that process is more important than actual fact here since even the Cardinal brass doesn't have a lock on what they're going to do (because there are too many unknown factors beyond their control).

The relevance - of pointing out that we don't know what BA and Keim are thinking - is that you and a few others here seem to think that you do (& you don't).

Amen.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think trading down is far far from a given, but I wouldn't rule it out.

I believe that Keim and Arians have played out various Board scenarios where certain events at different points in the draft would trigger different strategies.

I have no idea of what their Board looks like but imagine that there are 3 - 4 guys we'd grab if they were still there at #7.

But if all these guys were gone, the Cards would go to Plan B and Plan B-1. Plan B would be to review our Board to determine how many remaining players we could be happy with (i.e. "red chippers") in round one. We'd then try to engineer a trade to a spot no farther down than the number of red chippers on our board. This would guarantee we'd still get someone we liked after we traded down.

Plan B -1 would be our default strategy in case a trade couldn't be worked out - to bite the bullet and take the BPA on our Board at #7 (even if we didn' love him).

Regarding which teams would or would not want to trade up with us (& or whether we wouldn't have to trade down too far) - Unless you're a mind-reader, there's no real way of knowing. A couple of teams may fall in love with Geno or Barkley. Or Eifert - considered all by himself as a TE prospect. Or there could be a run on corners. You just never know.

In the end, I'd set the odds of our trading out of #7 at around 30%. Fluker might make sense under that scenario, but the later you draft, the harder it is to predict whether he'd be there (or whether he'd be atop our board) when we picked.

So, in summary, we don't know and we can only speculate? Wow, I never thought about it that way.

Ugh. You do realize this is a message board right?

 

[Dr. Jones]

The math says that it would cost Atlanta, San Fran a first round pick next year to get into the top 10.

I would love a D. Jones (San Fran #1), Warford (KC's #2), Elam (Our #2) combo plus San Fran's #1 next year.

 

[Duckjake]

Here you go.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com...ineman-they-might-have-to-choose-a-guard.html

I still think TA on their radar.

You could be right. I've heard that Terron Armstead the OT from Arkansas Pine Bluff's stock is rising and is now considered a possible 2nd round selection.

 

[WildBB]

The Unknown
As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know.
—Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Do you really think ATL would be willing to trade that many picks to move up, 2 years removed from trading up to take Julio Jones. They gave up a crap-ton of picks in that trade if I remember correctly. I know they're close and all, but that seems like a dumb move on their part.

It's not as many picks as it sounds like. It's really only this year's 2 and next year's #1 to swap picks this year. That's not an extreme price to pay for moving from pick 30 to pick 7, especially when you figure their next year's #1 is likley going to be a late 1st rounder as well.

 

[schutd]

When did everyone turn into a total Richard on this board????

 

[Chopper0080]

When did everyone turn into a total Richard on this board????

Just having some fun at Cpt. Obvious' expense. Jeff has a habit of commenting that we don't know anything for sure because we aren't in the know, which is pretty much an implied fact of a message board.