Durant to the Warriors

[Sunburn]

He joined a team loaded with assets after watching the other 2 members of his trio decline from age and health. He was smarter about the way he handled his "power move" but I can't believe you guys are praising him for winning it all with a team loaded with recent top 5 picks (5 of them), two of which they traded for Love, a player considered to be among the game's best until he moved to Cleveland.

Lebron stepped it up when it counted but he's done that before. Injuries are part of the game but they beat a team that was clearly limping through the playoffs. He proved nothing to me. But he needed to prove nothing to me. AFAIC, he'd already shown the basketball world he was one of the all time greats.

If you think Lebron left Miami, and chose Cleveland, because he thought he had a better chance of winning a title in Cleveland than anywhere else, you'd be mistaken. Before the Cavs won the draft lottery that year, they were considered as devoid of talent as just about any other team in the league, having a record of 33 - 49 in the miserable east. Yes, the Cavs won the lottery, but so what. The prize, Wiggins, was not going to vault the team into a contender. Lebron showed a huge amount of good faith by signing with Cleveland again. Lebron's Cavs this year maybe the least talented championship squad of all time. Without Lebron, there's a good chance they'd be a lottery team again. He pretty much willed them to the championship. Durant chose GS because he knows he has a better chance of winning a title there than anywhere else. They posted the greatest regular season win total of all time last year, having won the title the previous, and currently boast the reigning MVP on their roster. Comparing Lebron and Cleveland to Durant and GS is silly.

P.S. How has the Love trade turned out for Cleveland? I could argue it actually weakened the team. Doesn't matter with Lebron. He'll take you to the Finals anyway. Just another nod of respect here.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If you think Lebron left Miami, and chose Cleveland, because he thought he had a better chance of winning a title in Cleveland than anywhere else, you'd be mistaken.

No, I don't think he chose it for that reason. I think he was frustrated about the owner making so much money and still cutting cutting costs by getting rid of key support players. And he felt that the Miami run was nearing it's end. But he wasn't blind to what was going on back home, they were in a far better situation than they'd been when he was there before. I have no doubt he believed he could turn it into a dominant team. And if GS hadn't come out of nowhere, he'd probably have 2 rings there already.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No, I don't think he chose it for that reason. I think he was frustrated about the owner making so much money and still cutting cutting costs by getting rid of key support players. And he felt that the Miami run was nearing it's end. But he wasn't blind to what was going on back home, they were in a far better situation than they'd been when he was there before. I have no doubt he believed he could turn it into a dominant team. And if GS hadn't come out of nowhere, he'd probably have 2 rings there already.

to be honest, if Kyrie had just stayed healthy last year, he probably would have had two rings already.

oh... this article doesn't make Durant look any better:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russell-westbrook-supposedly-put-off-232006231.html

Being buddy buddy with the guy who's repeatedly kicking your teammate in the balls kinda sucks. The more I see/hear about Durant, the less I like him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

oh... this article doesn't make Durant look any better:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russell-westbrook-supposedly-put-off-232006231.html

Being buddy buddy with the guy who's repeatedly kicking your teammate in the balls kinda sucks. The more I see/hear about Durant, the less I like him.

I'm not a fan of Durant the person, I've said that several times the past 3 years. I'm far removed from the situation so I could be way wrong but from everything I've read and heard he strikes me as a first class manipulative jerk, phony on every level. But that's just me. Unfortunately, I have similar concerns over the most recent superstar draftee (now residing in Philly).

What's funny is that I've been probably the only real negative voice on Durant here the past several years and yet I'm in a minority of roughly 2 that isn't bothered by his decision to play in GS. I still don't see the big deal but unlike many here, I don't think he's a top 3 player. I think he's been the 2nd best player in Oklahoma City for a few years now and I think he'll be the 2nd best player this season too.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think he wanted out of OKC one way or the other. I think he chose Golden State because it gave him his best opportunity to win a ring. I think he took the 2 year deal with an opt out solely for financial reasons. I've felt this way all along, it's not a change in position. I guess maybe it didn't come across clearly but if you look at my first post about "money grab" (post 44 of this thread), I highlighted and was disagreeing with CR's suggestion that the 2 year deal proved it was ring chasing.

That wasn't the only reason stated on my part and I took it the same way when you called it a money grab vs a ring grab which IMO are two completely different things.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That wasn't the only reason stated on my part and I took it the same way when you called it a money grab vs a ring grab which IMO are two completely different things.

If I didn't make it clear, that's on me, but go look at post 44. I highlighted your statement where you suggested the 2 year deal proved it was a money deal. At the time, I assumed my point was clear but I guess I was wrong. But that was all I was talking about. I've never thought his choice was anything other than a move to get a ring. I just knew that the 2 year with opt-out had nothing to do with getting that ring, the deal specifics were only about money.

 

[Sunburn]

But he wasn't blind to what was going on back home, they were in a far better situation than they'd been when he was there before. I have no doubt he believed he could turn it into a dominant team.

No kidding. He turned the crap squads that were there before his departure into dominant teams. He turns every team he's on into a dominant team. However, the Cavs records after he left were 19-63, 21-45, 24-58, and 33-49. They were living square in the middle of Sucksville. They won the draft, but so what, the prize was Wiggins, and that guaranteed them nothing. Without Lebron, they were guaranteed multiple, subsequent seasons in the lottery. You think Lebron looked at this team and thought highly of its roster, talent, potential? No, maybe he thought the Cavs had something to work with, but he came back because he really did want to make things right with Cleveland and deliver a championship there. Not because he saw the makings of a super-team and decided it was a great opportunity at ring number 3. Lebron's return to Cleveland is the antithesis of Durant going to GS.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not a fan of Durant the person, I've said that several times the past 3 years. I'm far removed from the situation so I could be way wrong but from everything I've read and heard he strikes me as a first class manipulative jerk, phony on every level. But that's just me. Unfortunately, I have similar concerns over the most recent superstar draftee (now residing in Philly).

What's funny is that I've been probably the only real negative voice on Durant here the past several years and yet I'm in a minority of roughly 2 that isn't bothered by his decision to play in GS. I still don't see the big deal but unlike many here, I don't think he's a top 3 player. I think he's been the 2nd best player in Oklahoma City for a few years now and I think he'll be the 2nd best player this season too.

I've never got the adulation that Durant was some sort of saint. It started after the MVP speech and honoring his mom, which was great, but if you know anything about his childhood even that was played up and he left out key details. Yes his mom had no money and worked lots of hours but Kevin Durant was taking "gifts" including cash for years as an up and coming basketball prodigy. If yuo remember the guy who was Carmelo's marketing rep that got Josh Selby suspended at the beginning of his year at Kansas, that same guy was giving gifts and money to Durant. So was he poor yes, was his mom doing everything she could to help yes, but he was using the system to get money himself the whole time, while jumping from one school to another trying to find one that would give him the grades he needed to qualify for college.

But at a certain point you just decide people do what they do to survive and get where they want to be and most of them don't get there so if he does, more power to him. He is like lots of people in this generation a guy who decided he was going to use basketball to get ahead and was willing to whatever it took to get there. People seem to completely ignore that stuff when a kid is trying to qualify for college at diploma mills and then on campus for 8 months pretending to be a student.

I'm sure he was friends with Green, again Curry and Thompson have been courting him for months too. And Westbrook has connections in LA to both the Clippers and the Lakers and again it's been widely reported, even by Woj himself, that Westbrook very likely told Durant he intended to leave next year for LA.

I think in a sense Westbrook is lucky that when he leaves, either his choice or by trade, he won't get near the flack because people are blaming Durant. If Durant had stayed one more year, Westbrook would have been the one getting much of the flack when he bolted.

 

[Covert Rain]

If I didn't make it clear, that's on me, but go look at post 44. I highlighted your statement where you suggested the 2 year deal proved it was a money deal. At the time, I assumed my point was clear but I guess I was wrong. But that was all I was talking about. I've never thought his choice was anything other than a move to get a ring. I just knew that the 2 year with opt-out had nothing to do with getting that ring, the deal specifics were only about money.

I gotcha. However, in post 43 I clearly stated one of the reasons he chose GSW is because he felt it was his best chance at a ring as well. I hadn't thought it all the way through about the contract point which I acknowledged was a good point you made. However, it was only one point.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No kidding. He turned the crap squads that were there before his departure into dominant teams. He turns every team he's on into a dominant team. However, the Cavs records after he left were 19-63, 21-45, 24-58, and 33-49. They were living square in the middle of Sucksville. They won the draft, but so what, the prize was Wiggins, and that guaranteed them nothing. Without Lebron, they were guaranteed multiple, subsequent seasons in the lottery. You think Lebron looked at this team and thought highly of its roster, talent, potential? No, maybe he thought the Cavs had something to work with, but he came back because he really did want to make things right with Cleveland and deliver a championship there. Not because he saw the makings of a super-team and decided it was a great opportunity at ring number 3.

I think they had a lot of trade chip value, not so much win-it-all right now value. But yes, I think he looked at that roster and thought highly of it's potential. Multiple high picks that were coming into their own along with another top pick to use in trading for what was considered to be a top 5-ish player. Just on paper, the idea of Kyrie, Lebron and Love looks like another big 3 or did at the time. And that was without considering Thompson, a prized role player.

If Mickey hadn't been so greedy, he stays and retires in Miami IMO. Once Lebron had his fill of that man's greed though, Cleveland became an option for several reasons. You mentioned one of them. There was also the fact he longed to raise his family in the world he left, not the one he was stuck in with the Heat. Apparently that was a big issue for his wife too.

IOW, there were many reasons he went back to Cleveland but I don't think he goes back there if the cupboard was as bare as it had been when he left. They had assets, lots of assets, like Boston does and like we hopefully do. We're not a good team either but if there was some superstar out there with Valley roots, he wouldn't have a hard time convincing himself that he could become part of something special here.

 

[chickenhead]

Lebron was also going back to Cleveland with all the power, all the goodwill, and a couple rings. It was no guarantee that he'd win a title, but relatively certain he'd make the finals in the east. There was no way Gilbert was going to have the team managed the same as the first time around. Also, regarding the cupboards being bare: Lebron had firsthand experience with how fast a team could be turned into a favorite in the east.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm not a fan of Durant the person, I've said that several times the past 3 years. I'm far removed from the situation so I could be way wrong but from everything I've read and heard he strikes me as a first class manipulative jerk, phony on every level. But that's just me. Unfortunately, I have similar concerns over the most recent superstar draftee (now residing in Philly).

What's funny is that I've been probably the only real negative voice on Durant here the past several years and yet I'm in a minority of roughly 2 that isn't bothered by his decision to play in GS. I still don't see the big deal but unlike many here, I don't think he's a top 3 player. I think he's been the 2nd best player in Oklahoma City for a few years now and I think he'll be the 2nd best player this season too.

I think this is something that hasn't been discussed that much. I saw an article yesterday about how Durant had grown tired playing alongside Westbrook and his style of ISO/Hero Ball but since the 2014 season and Durant went down with his foot injury the Thunder became Russ's team. I think that was pretty obvious in the Warriors series also. Durant was forcing things more than Westbrook was, at least from my perspective. Maybe if his shots were falling it wouldn't have seemed that bad but they weren't. I think OKC should consider themselves lucky to still have Westbrook and do everything they can to make him happy this season. Hope for the best like how Lillard took things over in Portland and led them to the playoffs even though many wrote them off once Aldridge left. Westbrook is better than Lillard and he has a better supporting cast also. I think OKC will make the playoffs, provided they don't ship Westbrook out, and might be able to play spoiler in the first or second round. I don't see them being a legit contender but I think they can build a contending team around Westbrook if given another year or two.

 

[devilalum]

Ironically most players want a ring to earn respect.

IMO he's sealed his fate as a pariah. Even if they win when he's done playing he'll be the ring mercenary and nothing more. Mr. Asterisk.

sent from a fone

 

[Russ Smith]

I think this is something that hasn't been discussed that much. I saw an article yesterday about how Durant had grown tired playing alongside Westbrook and his style of ISO/Hero Ball but since the 2014 season and Durant went down with his foot injury the Thunder became Russ's team. I think that was pretty obvious in the Warriors series also. Durant was forcing things more than Westbrook was, at least from my perspective. Maybe if his shots were falling it wouldn't have seemed that bad but they weren't. I think OKC should consider themselves lucky to still have Westbrook and do everything they can to make him happy this season. Hope for the best like how Lillard took things over in Portland and led them to the playoffs even though many wrote them off once Aldridge left. Westbrook is better than Lillard and he has a better supporting cast also. I think OKC will make the playoffs, provided they don't ship Westbrook out, and might be able to play spoiler in the first or second round. I don't see them being a legit contender but I think they can build a contending team around Westbrook if given another year or two.

That all assumes Westbrook wants to be there and by most accounts he doesn't.

 

[Ronin]

Enough! We need to get this bad boy in the Suns FO someway, somehow. Come home Steve!

RealGM ‏@RealGM 1m1 minute ago
Steve Nash Played Key Role In Easing Kevin Durant's Concerns About Fit With Warriors: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/242770/Steve-Nash-Played-Key-Role-In-Easing-Durants-Concerns-About-Fit-With-Warriors…

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ironically most players want a ring to earn respect.

IMO he's sealed his fate as a pariah. Even if they win when he's done playing he'll be the ring mercenary and nothing more. Mr. Asterisk.

sent from a fone

Like LeBron and Miami or Shaq and the Lakers? People have short memories.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think this is something that hasn't been discussed that much. I saw an article yesterday about how Durant had grown tired playing alongside Westbrook and his style of ISO/Hero Ball but since the 2014 season and Durant went down with his foot injury the Thunder became Russ's team. I think that was pretty obvious in the Warriors series also. Durant was forcing things more than Westbrook was, at least from my perspective. Maybe if his shots were falling it wouldn't have seemed that bad but they weren't. I think OKC should consider themselves lucky to still have Westbrook and do everything they can to make him happy this season. Hope for the best like how Lillard took things over in Portland and led them to the playoffs even though many wrote them off once Aldridge left. Westbrook is better than Lillard and he has a better supporting cast also. I think OKC will make the playoffs, provided they don't ship Westbrook out, and might be able to play spoiler in the first or second round. I don't see them being a legit contender but I think they can build a contending team around Westbrook if given another year or two.

I feel like as a UCLA fan I should be defending Westbrook here more often but I can't. How do you determine Durant was forcing things more than Westbrook?

Durant shot 42% for that series, not great but not awful, Westbrook shot .395. Westbrook also set an NBA record for most turnovers in a 7 game series with 31, 6 more than Durant had. i think when people say that they're using game 6 the 10-31 8 turnover game from Durant and omitting the other 6. Westbrook had at least 5 turnovers in 3 different games.

Neither one of them was great and Westbrook's rebound and assist numbers were terrific, but I actually think Durant played significantly better defense than Westbrook did. It was pointed out repeatedly he wasn't actually guarding Curry he was guarding Thompson most of that series, Roberson was on Curry.

 

[devilalum]

Like LeBron and Miami or Shaq and the Lakers? People have short memories.

But those 2 didn't latch onto teams that already had a ring. They were both pieces that had to be there to get to the next level.

sent from a fone

 

[Hoop Head]

I feel like as a UCLA fan I should be defending Westbrook here more often but I can't. How do you determine Durant was forcing things more than Westbrook?

That's based on the eyeball test while watching. Almost every Thunder game I watched, whether it was the Warriors series or before, it seemed like the game came more naturally to Westbrook than it did Durant. He could impact the game in ways that didn't just involve scoring. Don't get me wrong, I think they're probably on the same level in terms of talent or at least close enough it's hard to make a case for one over the other, but I think in the Warriors series Westbrook played better throughout the duration of games while Durant jacked up like 18-19 shots in the first half of game 6 I think. The Russ you saw in the 1st quarter was the same as the 4th, with Durant is was up and down the whole series. Westbrook does the same, sometimes, but he's often capable of piling up assists or rebounds or really good defense when he can't impact the score of the game.

 

[Russ Smith]

But those 2 didn't latch onto teams that already had a ring. They were both pieces that had to be there to get to the next level.

sent from a fone

the Lakers didn't already have a ring?

That's based on the eyeball test while watching. Almost every Thunder game I watched, whether it was the Warriors series or before, it seemed like the game came more naturally to Westbrook than it did Durant. He could impact the game in ways that didn't just involve scoring. Don't get me wrong, I think they're probably on the same level in terms of talent or at least close enough it's hard to make a case for one over the other, but I think in the Warriors series Westbrook played better throughout the duration of games while Durant jacked up like 18-19 shots in the first half of game 6 I think. The Russ you saw in the 1st quarter was the same as the 4th, with Durant is was up and down the whole series. Westbrook does the same, sometimes, but he's often capable of piling up assists or rebounds or really good defense when he can't impact the score of the game.

I love Westbrook but I think his defense is vastly overrated. He gets steals but he gets reamed on defense because he gambles so much. Again that epic run by Klay in game 6, the guy guarding him through most of that was Westbrook and several times he just had his hands down or went for a steal and missed.

Durant had a bad game start to finish in game 6 but Westbrooks' 4th quarter was epic in a bad way, all the turnovers and he dribbled away so many possessions. He piles up stats for sure and hes' a great player but I feel like at times he just takes it too personally.

What Curry did at the end of game 7 giving up the 3 to Kyrie and then jacking up a quick shot himself, that's the stuff Westbrook does on a regular basis. Obviously Durant fit the Warriors better than Westbrook would because he can play the 3, but I really do feel Durant in that series was the better player, he just had a horrible game 6.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

the Lakers didn't already have a ring?

The franchise did, but the roster he joined didn't...

 

[devilalum]

the Lakers didn't already have a ring?

.

Not the squad that Shaq joined.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

the Lakers didn't already have a ring?

Man Russ, I don't know if you're being obtuse or you're just so blinded by homerism not to get this point. THAT Lakers squad didn't have a ring. Maybe Byron was still around (can't recall if he played with Shaq) but that wasn't a title contending Lakers team. That was a playoff squad that had recently been headed by van exel and Cedric ceballos. To compare shaq moving to that team and durant moving to warriors is just silly.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/07/13/ad...-agreement-kevin-durant-golden-state-warriors

Silver already setting the table for a 2017 lockout.

 

[Russ Smith]

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/07/13/ad...-agreement-kevin-durant-golden-state-warriors

Silver already setting the table for a 2017 lockout.

The key part of that story is that Silver conceded it might and probably is a unique situation because of the spike in the caproom at the same time Durant was able to move. Unless that happens consistently when a big player is a FA, it's not going to be a trend.

I agree you don't want all the players consolidated in a way that only a few teams have a chance to win. And that has been the problem in the NBA since I started watching the NBA in 1975. The NBA has never been able to achieve parity, the lesson to be learned is in a game of 5 on 5 a really great player can change everything. Kareem did it going to the Lakers. Bird did it skirting the spirit of the NBA draft to go to the Celtics. Jordan changed everything for the Bulls, Shaq did it leaving Orlando. Duncan did it winding up in San Antonio. LeBron has done it simply by being so great that effectively any Eastern Team that gets him becomes the best team in the East. Now we'll find out if Durant has done it be moving to GSW.

If the players and the owners are dumb enough to allow another lockout with money this huge and the game this popular, they will be to blame for it.